The Watchmaker Revisited

[Earthling]

Just a quick aside.

The trouble with science and religion is assumption.

If a man from primitive earth is walking along the beach and comes across a watch it's assumed that man would think the watch had a designer. Not necessarily. It's quite possible the man would think "What a pretty rock, I think it would look cool if I rubbed some **** in my beard and stuck it there."

It's also possible that the man would think "That's not a bad watch. Not as good as the ones on my home planet Rolex V but, not bad at all. . . "

There's no reason why we can't have a sense of humor.

 

[Audie]

Just a quick aside.

The trouble with science and religion is assumption.

If a man from primitive earth is walking along the beach and comes across a watch it's assumed that man would think the watch had a designer. Not necessarily. It's quite possible the man would think "What a pretty rock, I think it would look cool if I rubbed some **** in my beard and stuck it there."

It's also possible that the man would think "That's not a bad watch. Not as good as the ones on my home planet Rolex V but, not bad at all. . . "

There's no reason why we can't have a sense of humor.

"Assumption" is a big fav. with creationist.
They think it is a like such a total gotcha.
One word, and they can defeat all of science.

It is of course just a tiresome equivocation
game.

 

[HonestJoe]

The trouble with science and religion is assumption.

What are you assuming there is a problem with assumption? There’s nothing wrong with assumption as long as you recognise it for what it is and the reasons you’ve made it in the first place.

 

[Earthling]

What are you assuming there is a problem with assumption? There’s nothing wrong with assumption as long as you recognise it for what it is and the reasons you’ve made it in the first place.

I agree completely.

 

[columbus]

What are you assuming there is a problem with assumption? There’s nothing wrong with assumption as long as you recognise it for what it is and the reasons you’ve made it in the first place.

Given all the limitations of human mental processes(one would think Almighty God might have made us a lot smarter) assumptions are an absolutely necessary component of negotiating Creation.

These limited mental processes only make sense in an uncaring universe, where we are the current result of undirected development like evolution.
Tom

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Just a quick aside.

The trouble with science and religion is assumption.

If a man from primitive earth is walking along the beach and comes across a watch it's assumed that man would think the watch had a designer. Not necessarily. It's quite possible the man would think "What a pretty rock, I think it would look cool if I rubbed some **** in my beard and stuck it there."

It's also possible that the man would think "That's not a bad watch. Not as good as the ones on my home planet Rolex V but, not bad at all. . . "

There's no reason why we can't have a sense of humor.

I recommend that you read the book Why Evolution is True by Jerry Coyne. This is the best, and easiest to understand book that I have found when it comes to explaining all of the evidence that makes evolution a fact. If you're truly intellectually honest, you won't be afraid of reading a book that could change your mind.

 

[metis]

There's no reason why we can't have a sense of humor.

Ha ha.

Next.

 

[Earthling]

Given all the limitations of human mental processes(one would think Almighty God might have made us a lot smarter)

Let me interrupt you there. I think God made us smart enough, we just get confused due to our own imperfection. The Bible refers to Adam as perfect in the sense that a new born baby is perfect. Sure, the baby can't walk, talk, feed itself, go to the bathroom, have teeth or hair . . . not unlike myself in my drinking days, but I digress. The perfection implicated in the case of Adam is potential.

assumptions are an absolutely necessary component of negotiating Creation.

There's nothing wrong with assumption as long as you follow up on it with some substance. Evolutionist thinking, and I use the term loosely, aware of the contradiction, tends to be cyclical.

These limited mental processes only make sense in an uncaring universe, where we are the current result of undirected development like evolution.
Tom

You call it undirected development I call it imperfection. Or sin if I want to **** the atheists off.

 

[Earthling]

I recommend that you read the book Why Evolution is True by Jerry Coyne. This is the best, and easiest to understand book that I have found when it comes to explaining all of the evidence that makes evolution a fact. If you're truly intellectually honest, you won't be afraid of reading a book that could change your mind.

Oh really? I'll get me a copy of it when you've completed the Watchtower's 1971 tome, Aid In Understanding the Bible.

 

[columbus]

Let me interrupt you there. I think God made us smart enough, we just get confused due to our own imperfection.

That's what I said, only I said it without the internal contradiction.
If there is a god resembling the god of Abrahamic religions He made us easily confused.
Not very smart or logical.
Tom

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Oh really? I'll get me a copy of it when you've completed the Watchtower's 1971 tome, Aid In Understanding the Bible.

Funny, every time I suggest this book to creationists, they respond like this. I don't discuss the bible much, because I'm not that interested in it. The difference is that you claim to know evolution is false, and discuss it all the time, yet refuse to study the evidence for evolution. Again, if you want to understand evolution, this book is a phenomenal resource, but the fact that you indicate you won't read it tells me that you're afraid of your beliefs being challenged.

 

[Thief]

Just a quick aside.

The trouble with science and religion is assumption.

If a man from primitive earth is walking along the beach and comes across a watch it's assumed that man would think the watch had a designer. Not necessarily. It's quite possible the man would think "What a pretty rock, I think it would look cool if I rubbed some **** in my beard and stuck it there."

It's also possible that the man would think "That's not a bad watch. Not as good as the ones on my home planet Rolex V but, not bad at all. . . "

There's no reason why we can't have a sense of humor.

indeed

and if God doesn't have a sense of humor.....
I'm screwed

 

[Thief]

one would think Almighty God might have made us a lot smarter)

fodder for a new thread?

I think God made us ignorant....on purpose

 

[columbus]

fodder for a new thread?

I started to do that yesterday.
"The True Problem of Evil":
Why does God make humans so ignorant, needy, impulsive, and stupid?

But I have so many opinions on the subject it would take awhile to think it through and write a coherent OP. I am a little lazy when it comes setting RF straight on everything.

I think God made us ignorant....on purpose

I cannot believe in such vicious entity. But obviously YHWH did do that.
Ya know, unless He's a fictional character created by egotistical primitives in their own image.

Tom

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

fodder for a new thread?

I think God made us ignorant....on purpose

Speak for yourself.

 

[Earthling]

Funny, every time I suggest this book to creationists, they respond like this. I don't discuss the bible much, because I'm not that interested in it. The difference is that you claim to know evolution is false, and discuss it all the time, yet refuse to study the evidence for evolution. Again, if you want to understand evolution, this book is a phenomenal resource, but the fact that you indicate you won't read it tells me that you're afraid of your beliefs being challenged.

I demonstrated the hypocrisy in that already, what's the point in repeating it?

I can teach you the Bible. Ask me anything. I invited anyone here on a religious forum, which is not unlike like every other religious forum I've been to in that they consist primarily of disgruntled atheists proselytizing science and collectively you couldn't abide me asking just one question regarding Amphipithecus . . . no it was Aegyptopithecus . . . You, again collectively, could only tell me to read and accept the links they pulled in a quick search, and then have the nerve to complain at MY lack of interest?

The hypocrisy, arrogance and ignorance astounds me.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

I demonstrated the hypocrisy in that already, what's the point in repeating it?

I can teach you the Bible. Ask me anything. I invited anyone here on a religious forum, which is not unlike like every other religious forum I've been to in that they consist primarily of disgruntled atheists proselytizing science and collectively you couldn't abide me asking just one question regarding Amphipithecus . . . no it was Aegyptopithecus . . . You, again collectively, could only tell me to read and accept the links they pulled in a quick search, and then have the nerve to complain at MY lack of interest?

The hypocrisy, arrogance and ignorance astounds me.

Again, if you genuinely wanted to learn the evidence for evolution, you'd read the book. And, no, it's not a book I found with a "quick search." In fact, I've read the book myself. It is a very interesting and rewarding read, yet you refuse to read it because you fear a challenge to your belief system. Of course, any belief system that fears a challenge is a weak belief system.

 

[Earthling]

Again, if you genuinely wanted to learn the evidence for evolution, you'd read the book. And, no, it's not a book I found with a "quick search." In fact, I've read the book myself. It is a very interesting and rewarding read, yet you refuse to read it because you fear a challenge to your belief system. Of course, any belief system that fears a challenge is a weak belief system.

I'm done. This is my last post on these forums. I'll let the atheists that run the place lick their wounds and gnash their teeth, I've got better things to do. As Eric Cartman would say, "Screw you guys, I'm going home."

 

[Thief]

I think God made us ignorant....on purpose

I cannot believe in such vicious entity. But obviously YHWH did do that.
Ya know, unless He's a fictional character created by egotistical primitives in their own image.

if you were seeking to form a unique spirit
and did so ...in spirit
you would be talking to yourself......your echo

so

If you want unique conversation it must come from someone who learned a fresh perspective
without your help

 

[Thief]

I'm done. This is my last post on these forums. I'll let the atheists that run the place lick their wounds and gnash their teeth, I've got better things to do. As Eric Cartman would say, "Screw you guys, I'm going home."

don't go yet.....

think revenge