The Watchmaker Revisited

[Audie]

I am willing to admit that we do not know everything,and never will for that matter. That is no excuse to bring on the woo woo.

I'd not indulge him, were I you. That kind of
pseudo-intellectual, overwritten blather is just
tiresome beyond my limits. A person who
actually has something to say can say it in
plain words.

 

[Thief]

so the title implies......
intelligence is evident in complexity

but which is greater?
a well made watch......found to be dysfunctional in the dirt
or
the beating of your own heart within a complex biosphere
(so to speak)

 

[Audie]

so the title implies......
intelligence is evident in complexity

but which is greater?
a well made watch......found to be dysfunctional in the dirt
or
the beating of your own heart within a complex biosphere
(so to speak)

The bacteria germs in the soil are far more complex than a watch.

Missing in all this, I think, is that there are
things that can be done with known natural
processes-build a mountain range, run a star,
etc and blah.

Other things that just cannot. A word, written
with the toe, in sand, say. Not complex,
like a watch but requiring a mind to make it.
A beaver dam, same thing.

Nobody, tho, knows just where the line is.

For a simple example, archaeologists have a time
often enough, deciding if some paleo-item is
an artifact, or natural.

Does life require a mind to get it started? I think
not, but nobody actually knows.

 

[godnotgod]

Are you even fooling yourself with this empty rhetoric? I asked you a simple, honest question and you went off the deep end. You wish to be thought of as a deep thinker but all you can do is to dress up the ideas that you do not understand.

I answer your question, but instead of addressing my response, you attack me because you don't like my answer. Either you don't understand my response, or you disagree with it. OK. But your question is not so simple and honest; how we see things differs form one individual to another. If you are the observer with a mind conditioned via reason and logic, you will see things through that lens; if you are the observer just seeing things without any preconceived notions about what you are observing, then you will simply see things as they are.

Anyway, I disagree that what we observe is all there is. Do you mean to say that existence is just a fluke of nature, and there is nothing beyond that?

 

[Audie]

I am willing to admit that we do not know everything,and never will for that matter. That is no excuse to bring on the woo woo.

Not to get all dictionary here, but to "admit" is to reluctantly confess. Perhaps you mean, "agree".

 

[godnotgod]

That does appear to be the case, but beware lest thou
fallest into the same remote-viewing psycholoanalyst
role that he has occupied.

Ooooh! Now I get a free remote viewing psychoanalysis online from a pseudo-intellectual smarty pants.

 

[Audie]

Ooooh! Now I get a free remote viewing psychoanalysis online from a pseudo-intellectual smarty pants.

as a bonus, you get a ticket to ig city.

 

[godnotgod]

I am willing to admit that we do not know everything,and never will for that matter. That is no excuse to bring on the woo woo.

It's easy to dismiss something you have no experience with or knowledge of as 'woo woo', isn;t it, especially when, in the same breath, you 'admit' you are ignorant of many things. Today, playing the 'woo woo' card is equivalent to instantly discrediting anything that does not fit into the area of 'scientific evidence', which implies that science is the only valid kind of knowledge. This is usually what we call 'dogma'.

 

[Thief]

Does life require a mind to get it started? I think
not, but nobody actually knows.

instead of giving up and pleading ignorance on behalf of everyone.......

I will draw a line
complexity is an evidence
and complex life is an evidence

a spirit within that complexity.....evidence of Spirit

 

[godnotgod]

as a bonus, you get a ticket to ig city.

Is that where you're from? Sorry, I decline. My mother told me about people like you. We don't take counterfeits.

 

[godnotgod]

The bacteria germs in the soil are far more complex than a watch.

Missing in all this, I think, is that there are
things that can be done with known natural
processes-build a mountain range, run a star,
etc and blah.

Other things that just cannot. A word, written
with the toe, in sand, say. Not complex,
like a watch but requiring a mind to make it.
A beaver dam, same thing.

Nobody, tho, knows just where the line is.

For a simple example, archaeologists have a time
often enough, deciding if some paleo-item is
an artifact, or natural.

Does life require a mind to get it started? I think
not, but nobody actually knows.

There are some who do know.

There is the knowledge that comes from mind, and there is an intelligence that is present prior to the emergence of mind. Stop the mind, and you will see.

 

[Thief]

you can't see it .....if you lose your mind

 

[godnotgod]

I'd not indulge him, were I you. That kind of
pseudo-intellectual, overwritten blather is just
tiresome beyond my limits. A person who
actually has something to say can say it in
plain words.

Pity that you don't understand plain words, even when presented to you right under your nose.

I can help people with a phobia of woo woo. Really, it's OK. I understand.

 

[godnotgod]

you can't see it .....if you lose your mind

What mind is there to lose, and who is it that loses it? ha ha

Oh, wait! I know...it's 'little old me'...you know...ME! ME! ME!

Who?

Mind is for thinking.

No-mind is for seeing.

Conceptual frameworks formed by the mind about what you see is not to see things as they are, but to see things as your conceptual framework says they are.

You can't see things as they are when the mind is in the way.

 

[Thief]

What mind is there to lose, and who is it that loses it? ha ha

it's right behind your nose

 

[godnotgod]

it's right behind your nose

Really? Is that where yours is located? Don't sneeze, OK? You may lose it.

Has anyone seen my little red rooster?

 

[Thief]

Really? Is that where yours is located? Don't sneeze, OK? You may lose it.

Has anyone seen my little red rooster?

so .....you've lost your mind and your cock ......

 

[godnotgod]

so .....you've lost your mind and your cock ......

It was a figure of speech, silly.

BTW, did you ever get over your phobia about spending eternity in some forgotten grave, screaming your bloody head off, and no one there to hear you? Huh? Aw. Poor baby....not.

 

[Thief]

It was a figure of speech, silly.

BTW, did you ever get over your phobia about spending eternity in some forgotten grave, screaming your bloody head off, and no one there to hear you? Huh? Aw. Poor baby....not.

well actually.....I never worried over it
I decided long ago.....
I won't be attending my own funeral

 

[BilliardsBall]

Current cosmology and the various BB models (not theories?) do not conclude our physical existence has a beginning. There are other competing models such as the cyclic model and the Black Hole model that are based on the same evidence as the BB models for our universe,

Based on the current objective evidence it is possible that our physical existence (universe?) is ether eternal or infinite, or finite or temporal. It remains an unanswered question.

What do you think more likely?

A universe where matter and energy cannot be added in sum total is infinite/eternal.

It's Maker is infinite/eternal.