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The Western Governments Interest Rate That Keeps Everyone Pinned Down

lunakilo

Well-Known Member
Can all loans to be payed back with interests?

I have been over this in my head a few times now and I still can't figure out the answer.

Some people have argued that tis is not possible.
The argument goes something like this:
When you loan money the bank conjures up money for you.
You have to repay this money + interests.
The sum of all money which has been conjured up only coveres the valoe of the loans, not the added interests.
To pay the interests more money has to be conjured up via new loans, and so on
Inevitably leading to someone not being able to pay back their loan.

I don't know if the above is true since money is all make believe to begin with.
Supposedly money represent the value of stuff in the world in some way. Not sure if it actually does, but still, if people accept that money has value then in some roundabout way they have also accepted that it was ok to create that money.
There is not a fixed amount of money in the world, there is as much money in the world as we collectivly make believe there is :)

A lot of people have argued that since there is a limited supply of resources in the world there is a limit to the value of all stuff in the world and therefore you cannot increase the amount of money in the world indefinitely (it represents the value of stuff after all) because you would run out of resources.
But does this make sense? Stuff don't have a fixed value either. The value of stuff is only that which people are willing to pay for it.
If you have an old chair it might have decreased in value because it is old an worn, or it might have increased in value because it is a rare specimin.

So
1) with the current system it it possible to repay all loans. Why/why not?
2) If it is possible how likely is it that only the really stupid people who obviously take out loans they never should have taken out will be the only ones who cannot pay back their loans?
3) Even if it is theoretically possible for a banking system of the type we have now to work, is the system being run so irresponsibly that it just won't work in the long run?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
1) with the current system it it possible to repay all loans. Why/why not?
Yes. The majority of borrowers commit to loans which they're able to repay because economic activity will generate principal & interest.

2) If it is possible how likely is it that only the really stupid people who obviously take out loans they never should have taken out will be the only ones who cannot pay back their loans?
Hypothetically, I could agree to borrow $1,000 from you & pay 1,000,000,000% interest per year. This would
soon require more money than exists. But this is moot, since it doesn't reflect real economic activity.
 

dust1n

Zindīq
Hey lunakilo. I gotta drive back to Florida today, where I don't have much interest availability, but I will be back within the next few days to do more research and refine my argument.
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.

The system is not designed to reward people who for example live as I do. I know this for a fact. In addition your idea of 'no debt' is actually having debt and then payuing it off before interest and fees acrue [the example of your dad]- which is another way of saying 'actually having debt'. Actually incurring zero debt, as I do, is NOT how to get a good score.

Look - you're making this way too difficult - and frankly, if your credit score is "garbage," (your word, not mine), you've got some serious dings on your financial history - you don't get a "garbage" score by simply avoiding debt, if you've been an adult for a decade or so. Of course a very young person with no work history and no paid bills at all will have a lower score, but as I've pointed out repeatedly - it's not just debt that goes into a credit score, and if you've always paid your rent, cell phone, medical stuff, etc on time, then the fact that you have no credit cards or no outstanding debt right now will not create a "garbage" credit score.

As an agent of the system, you are programmed to support it. Your words are suspect. Case in point: you left out all the negative/dishonest methods. Every now and again however, agreeing that they were there.. then denying them soon after.

Oh, BS. And I'm not an "agent for the system." :rolleyes:

Another confirmation: you admit that the banking industry leaves people open to tragedy, but a few lines back deny that's the case at all.

OK. Are you REALLY this hard headed, or is your reading comprehension truly sad? I mean, should I get mad at you, or feel sorry for you?

I NEVER said that the banking industry leaves people open to tragedy. LIFE leaves people open to tragedy, and some of these tragedies create financial hardships, or even devastation - illness, accidents, divorce, deaths, layoffs, you name it. Real life is a LOT harder on us than a bank ever thought about being.

I understand that your insider info allows you to avoid most of the pitfalls - but to deny that such pitfalls exist and are cultivated - because it makes banks tons of money when people slip on those pitfalls- is simply dishonest.

"Insider info" - honestly, this is ridiculous. I don't do any fancy finagling to manage my finances. I don't handle my bank account any differently than I did before I worked in banking. I didn't overdraw my account then, and I don't overdraw it now. I use a credit card, and actually right now it's got a balance on it, because I had some unexpected expenses last month, and had to use it more than I expected to. Whew, glad I had it. I'll pay it off in probably about 4 months and I'll be glad, but I'm also glad I had it when I needed it.

Nothing complicated - hell, I don't even use Quick Books or Quicken or any other sort of accounting program. Just online banking and a debit card for 99 percent of my transactions. It's not rocket science.

Then you must be blind to the ads, and to the actual effects, and to the websites offering the ability to check, and...

No - I just don't pay any attention to them. They're a scam - you know that, right?

But then I also don't pay any attention to Rent To Own ads, or ads about flood insurance, or Viagra ads either. I guess those things stress some people out - but not most people.

You are too. Don't pretend. You have on several occasions lashed out at me directly, accusing me of being a bad defaulter. Simply to have some insult to say.

Say what?

As I said, you are still associated with it and cannot handle the guilt by association; it's textbook psychology

Amateur psychology on your part, I assure you.

These draws are still lures to get you to use something you have no real use for, and which is dangerous to you to have. [or him]. The companies are making profit on you, so those free perks are being paid for by you; you are not ahead of the game.

They make money off people who mishandle their finances. Now - as I said, I am carrying a balance on my Discover card right now - but due to my very good credit score, at least it's not at a high interest rate. Thank goodness.

And I never said I am "ahead of the game." I understand how these cards work. But hey, if I'm going to get charged interest, I can at least redeem my points for cash a couple of times a year. Why not?

Nothing is free, especially in the banking world. If not him, then someone else is being squeezed for the money to cover what he's greedily gobbling up - he sees the word 'free' and doesn't realize no bank gives anything away.

Oh, so now my dad is "greedy" because he pays his bills responsibly and redeems coupons for merchandise.

My dad is one of the most savvy people I've ever known. He knows how credit card companies make money. He also knows how to manage his money. If other people manage their money better, then maybe credit card companies will go out of business - but I'm not holding my breath. Still - that's on them - not on me, or my dad.

Somehow a profit is being made, and the dupe does not necessarily care, as long as it's not his pocket. Again - that fatal assumption that as long as nothing bad happens to YOU, there can't be anything wrong with the system, and that is definitely wrong.

Look, you think credit cards are bad - so - Don't use one. I don't think they are bad, if used responsibly, so I'll use one. I don't feel a shred of guilt over it. I'm handling my finances responsibly - and I'm not responsible for anyone else's. Neither are you.
 

dust1n

Zindīq
Yes. The majority of borrowers commit to loans which they're able to repay because economic activity will generate principal & interest.

And the minority.

....destined to have a learning experience.

It seems to me that since the total debt of our country (including, financial, pubilc, private, etc.) is three times as much as the GDP, at least in 2009, 2010, which doesn't include asset backed securities, and that this debt is steadily increasing, the fact that the majority of borrowers are able to repay because of 'economic activity' or 'growth' will generate principal doesn't seem to really answer the question if ALL loans and interest rates can be paid back.

It doesn't seem to me that the real economy could ever keep up with infinite profit demands. If there isn't constant growth, which their can't be, then default is inevitable.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
It seems to me that since the total debt of our country (including, financial, pubilc, private, etc.) is three times as much as the GDP, at least in 2009, 2010, which doesn't include asset backed securities, and that this debt is steadily increasing, the fact that the majority of borrowers are able to repay because of 'economic activity' or 'growth' will generate principal doesn't seem to really answer the question if ALL loans and interest rates can be paid back.
The problem I see is the "steadily increasing" part. Tis a symptom of dysfunctional
borrowing, ie, we are not productive enuf to bear the costs of the money we borrow.

It doesn't seem to me that the real economy could ever keep up with infinite profit demands. If there isn't constant growth, which their can't be, then default is inevitable.
Default is avoided by currency inflation, which deprives the lender of equity.
But smart lenders will be charging enuf interest to offset this effect.
I don't like institutionalized inflation, but gov is addicted to it.
 
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