The Western Left Hand Defined

[Mindmaster]

I would think this idea should just be what we go by for the purposes of this DIR since it's the most objectively stated and generalized one I've seen so far in all of these topics. It's also essentially the same statement I've seen others make in the past when discussing definitions in other places online. All this posturing, on both sides, is getting really old. I don't care who believes what about the term anymore, we all gotta share this DIR.

I tend to agree, mostly what is going on here is an exercise of tautological obfuscation in the vein of stroking individual hubris. It is worthless to fight over the meaning of the words, but rather we should take the contributions of many and see them as parts of the same pizza. The pizza isn't trashed if we make it half and half, or even put different toppings in each corner. We can challenge each others ideas, but we don't have to do it in ways that ultimately undermine the path as a whole. We don't have to think the LHP has to be a homogeneous one topping pizza to be valid, and it probably is better if it isn't. If we are truly walking the wiser path then we need to stop nipping the heels of those that walk before us and behind us. We need the merit of our ideas to speak for themselves without the childish shenanigans akin to high school bullying. We need to forgive, and to some extent encourage, the variation of ideas that others have about the subject in order to do what ultimately is good for all of us -- take the best and leave the rest.

 

[Kapalika]

Well, because the Western LHP is different from the Hindu definition of LHP. That is what the topic of this thread is all about. The difference is not going to go away by scorning and belittling the values of the WLHP. (That would be herding mentality.)

I think you have totally missed my point so I will reiterate.

It doesn't matter what differences there are or are not. All this talk about definitions is pointless, it's just going to go in the same circles it has for months. The rest of modern society is so hung up on definitions and labels... if we are Left Hand Path shouldn't we be above that?

In the end, basically every poster has their own view. We should be embracing that diversity and talking about ideas and practice, not about definitions or semantics.

but rather we should take the contributions of many and see them as parts of the same pizza. The pizza isn't trashed if we make it half and half, or even put different toppings in each corner. We can challenge each others ideas, but we don't have to do it in ways that ultimately undermine the path as a whole. We don't have to think the LHP has to be a homogeneous one topping pizza to be valid, and it probably is better if it isn't.

+1

 

[Kapalika]

Well, because the Western LHP is different from the Hindu definition of LHP. That is what the topic of this thread is all about. The difference is not going to go away by scorning and belittling the values of the WLHP. (That would be herding mentality.)

I think you have totally missed my point so I will reiterate. Also for the record I didn't belittle or scorn anything rather I am frustrated at the fact that we are *still* talking about labels and definitions.

It doesn't matter what differences there are or are not. All this talk about definitions is pointless, it's just going to go in the same circles it has *for months*. The rest of modern society is so hung up on definitions and labels... on identity through words and not actions. If we are Left Hand Path shouldn't we be above that? Magic is about action and intent.

In the end, basically every poster has their own view. We should be embracing that diversity and talking about ideas and practice, not about definitions or semantics. As a whole, this DIR feels too close minded. Which is, in my opinion, the counter point of the Left Hand Path.

Honestly, more than anything, I just hate seeing this subject keep popping up. It's mostly unproductive.

but rather we should take the contributions of many and see them as parts of the same pizza. The pizza isn't trashed if we make it half and half, or even put different toppings in each corner. We can challenge each others ideas, but we don't have to do it in ways that ultimately undermine the path as a whole. We don't have to think the LHP has to be a homogeneous one topping pizza to be valid, and it probably is better if it isn't.

+1

 

[1137]

This is still going?

 

[Kapalika]

This is still going?

I saw it on the front page, I just realized when you posted this thatI was the first one in 2 weeks posting on it and so I guess Imight of done a micro necro of it. In my defense I hadn't slept in like 4 days when I posted so I wasn't exactly attentive.

Well crap. my bad

So how you been? Done any cool rituals lately? Bah let's try just posting on another topic then.

 

[Sutekh]

What are they integrating their ego into if they don't believe in an external deity?

Why bring up the subject external deity if you yourself are perhaps atheistic? Why does LaVeys group integrate the ego? The reason why the ego is integrated into LaVeys Satanism is simple if you of course know. LaVeys Satanism is of course composed of many things to began with.

I bet you can figure this out and understand, I am perhaps guessing that you did not know what to say on my previous challenges on your views of marking out the ego from the Left Hand Path.

 

[crossfire]

I think you have totally missed my point so I will reiterate.

It doesn't matter what differences there are or are not. All this talk about definitions is pointless, it's just going to go in the same circles it has for months. The rest of modern society is so hung up on definitions and labels... if we are Left Hand Path shouldn't we be above that?

Then why in the heck did you bump this thread? Just to say that it is worthless, in your view? To basically say "shut up?" How is that not belittling?

 

[Kapalika]

Then why in the heck did you bump this thread? Just to say that it is worthless, in your view? How is that not belittling?

It might benefit you to read my last post for the answer to the first question.

And saying a discussion is pointless because it will take us in circles that just became arguments about semantics and definitions is different than belittling varying points of views. On the contrary I explicitly stated that we should celebrate and embrace those different views and simply have an actual discussion about our practices.

Reading. It's an amazing skill. But ya, I didn't realize I bumped it at the time, so I'll let it stay down this time.

 

[crossfire]

It might benefit you to read my last post for the answer to the first question.

And saying a discussion is pointless because it will take us in circles that just became arguments about semantics and definitions is different than belittling varying points of views. On the contrary I explicitly stated that we should celebrate and embrace those different views and simply have an actual discussion about our practices.

Reading. It's an amazing skill. But ya, I didn't realize I bumped it at the time, so I'll let it stay down this time.

Yes, reading is an amazing skill. A good place to start would be the topic of the thread. Thank you.

 

[Sutekh]

On the contrary I explicitly stated that we should celebrate and embrace those different views and simply have an actual discussion about our practices.

It would be great if we can perhaps share ones views of beliefs and Magick in general. I am pretty sure that on this dir Magick and everyone's views in general has been perhaps discussed. But I consider Magick to be my favorite subject to discuss in general.

 

[Sutekh]

I do apologize if I went a bit off the subject.

 

[EtuMalku]

What everyone seems to conveniently ignore is that we are not discussing words here but rather ideologies behind the words.

 

[EtuMalku]

Nope...words...describing ideologies that are not defined by the words.

Maybe you are, but I'm discussing ideologies and what people refer to as LHP is not the same as the Western LHP

 

[nash8]

What are they integrating their ego into if they don't believe in an external deity?

Their own higher self? Their "God" self for lack of a better term. Although I could see that western lhp would qualify this as the development of the ego rather than the integration of it with something altogether different.

I, personally, view the dichotomy of west vs east lhp in terms of brain hemisphere integration. Easternn is the allowing the left hemisphere, ego, logic, concious, singular, intellect to be guided by the right hemisphere, energy, intuition, subconcious, holistic.

Western lhp is the opposite, left guiding right. The conscious intellect guiding the subconscious intuition.

Just my 2, er, 3 cents lol.