The Whole Crucifixion Story Fact's Or Fiction ?

[TehuTi]

Read The Above .

 

[lew0049]

What????? Nazareth didn't exist until 2nd century C.E - This should some truly insightful information. So please, show me where you found that Nazareth wasn't around during the supposed time of Jesus.
And nobody ehard of Jesus until the mid 2nd century?? very interesting, especially since a non-christian Tacitus wrote about him in A.D 64, Talmud betwenn 70-110 A.D., Pliny the younger in 112 A.D...
And I was referring to people during that time. Please show me a document from 0-100 A.D. that disputes someone named Jesus being crucified by the Romans. I believe the gospels circulated before 150 A.D.; however, supposing that is the case, the apostles were teaching that Jesus was crucified in the first century A.D

 

[McBell]

What????? Nazareth didn't exist until 2nd century C.E - This should some truly insightful information. So please, show me where you found that Nazareth wasn't around during the supposed time of Jesus.
And nobody ehard of Jesus until the mid 2nd century?? very interesting, especially since a non-christian Tacitus wrote about him in A.D 64, Talmud betwenn 70-110 A.D., Pliny the younger in 112 A.D...
And I was referring to people during that time. Please show me a document from 0-100 A.D. that disputes someone named Jesus being crucified by the Romans. I believe the gospels circulated before 150 A.D.; however, supposing that is the case, the apostles were teaching that Jesus was crucified in the first century A.D

Let me get this straight...
Are you asking for a document from that time that states that Jesus was never crucified?

 

[lew0049]

pladecalvo -
I just noticed you were an atheist. Tell me, how you do make something out of nothing? Is it possible?

 

[TehuTi]

God is '' Anyone '' or '' Thing '' In control of other beings or things , To be God does not make you The All . God is within the All , '' For Ye Are Gods '' As Psalm 82 ; 6 , States and John 10 ; 34 , Supposts it stating '' ... Is It Now Written In Your Law , I Said , Ye Are Gods ?

You are not The Source of all things , For you are one of the things in The Source . The God concept as mentioned above is man's , Man had to be A '' He '' ( Genesis 15 ; 7 ) . Had to be in A '' Home In The Heaven '' ( Joshua 2 ; 11 ) '' , Had to be '' In Control Over People's Destinies ''
( 1Samuel 2 ; 3 ) , A Judge '' ( Genesis 15 ; 14 ) And '' Prosecutor '' And '' Sentencer ''
( Deuteronomy 17 ; 10 ) '' And '' Executer ( Exodus 12 ; 12 ) And had to have '' Hands '' ( 1Samuel 5 ; 11 ) And had to have '' A Heart '' ( Genesis 6;6 , 8 ; 21 ; Koran 2 ; 255 ) And had to have '' Eyes '' ( Genesis 6 ; 8 )

Eventually Michelangelo , One of the great artists of the 15th century in Italy , Drew God as an Old Man in the image of his own race on the ceiling of his 16th chapel . And the christians personify God in their image to form the many states that dawned the many crosses in christianity ; Or to symbolically be present in A black stone in the corner of A cube-shape building in Mecca one the part of The Muslims . The Koran is saturated with countless demonstrative pronouns of God being '' He '' or Him ( Koran 112 ; 1 ; 2-4 )

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

God is '' Anyone '' or '' Thing '' In control of other beings or things , To be God does not make you The All . God is within the All , '' For Ye Are Gods '' As Psalm 82 ; 6 , States and John 10 ; 34 , Supposts it stating '' ... Is It Now Written In Your Law , I Said , Ye Are Gods ?

You are not The Source of all things , For you are one of the things in The Source . The God concept as mentioned above is man's , Man had to be A '' He '' ( Genesis 15 ; 7 ) . Had to be in A '' Home In The Heaven '' ( Joshua 2 ; 11 ) '' , Had to be '' In Control Over People's Destinies ''
( 1Samuel 2 ; 3 ) , A Judge '' ( Genesis 15 ; 14 ) And '' Prosecutor '' And '' Sentencer ''
( Deuteronomy 17 ; 10 ) '' And '' Executer ( Exodus 12 ; 12 ) And had to have '' Hands '' ( 1Samuel 5 ; 11 ) And had to have '' A Heart '' ( Genesis 6;6 , 8 ; 21 ; Koran 2 ; 255 ) And had to have '' Eyes '' ( Genesis 6 ; 8 )

Eventually Michelangelo , One of the great artists of the 15th century in Italy , Drew God as an Old Man in the image of his own race on the ceiling of his 16th chapel . And the christians personify God in their image to form the many states that dawned the many crosses in christianity ; Or to symbolically be present in A black stone in the corner of A cube-shape building in Mecca one the part of The Muslims . The Koran is saturated with countless demonstrative pronouns of God being '' He '' or Him ( Koran 112 ; 1 ; 2-4 )

Do not associate the bible and quran when asking when trying to describe the Creator. They are not the same and their understanding of it is different. Compare them seperate.

What does the black stone have to do with any of this?

 

[TehuTi]

Do not associate the bible and quran when asking when trying to describe the Creator. They are not the same and their understanding of it is different. Compare them seperate.

What does the black stone have to do with any of this?

Islam is just another form of Christian as I have show you in the post call where did Islam get its teaching from .

 

[pladecalvo]

What?????

Nazareth didn't exist until 2nd century C.E - This should some truly insightful information. So please, show me where you found that Nazareth wasn't around during the supposed time of Jesus.

You really need to do some research outside the bible Lew. Nazareth is not mentioned in any historical records or biblical texts of the time and receives no mention by any contemporary historian. Nazareth is not mentioned in the Old Testament, the Talmud, nor in the Apocrypha and it does not appear in any early rabbinic literature. Nazareth was not included in the list of settlements of the tribes of Zebulon which mentions twelve towns and six villages. Nazareth is not included among the 45 cities of Galilee that were mentioned by Josephus (37AD-100AD).
Nazareth is also missing from the 63 towns of Galilee mentioned in the Talmud.

According to my research, Nazareth did not exist as a town until the third century CE. Exhaustive archaeological studies have been done by Franciscans to prove that such a town existed but actually they have shown the site to have been a cemetery during the first century CE. With no Nazareth other than a cemetery existing at the time, how could there have been a Jesus of Nazareth?

And nobody ehard of Jesus until the mid 2nd century?? very interesting, especially since a non-christian Tacitus wrote about him in A.D 64, Talmud betwenn 70-110 A.D., Pliny the younger in 112 A.D...

Tacitus was born in 56CE so according to you, he was 8 years old when he wrote about Jesus. He was a clever little boy wasn't he? No Tacitus wrote about your jesus in c.112CE.Tacitus allegedly wrote passage about "Christ" - this passage has several problems however: Tacitus uses the term "procurator", used in his later times, but not correct for the actual period, when "prefect" was used. Tacitus names the person as "Christ", when Roman records could not possibly have used this name (it would have been "Jesus, son of Joseph" or similar.) This passage is paraphrased by Sulpicius Severus in the 5th century without attributing it to Tacitus, and may have been inserted back into Tacitus from this work. This evidence speaks AGAINST it being based on any Roman records - but merely a few details which Tacitus gathered from Christian stories circulating in his time. So, this passage is NOT evidence for Jesus, it's just evidence for 2nd century Christian stories about Jesus.


The TALMUD. Which Talmud are you refering to? The Babylonian Talmud was not written until 500CE and the Palestinian Talmud was not written until the 3rd Century so how could either have mentioned Jesus in 70CE. There are some possible references in the Talmud, but: these references are from 3rd century or later, and seem to be unfriendly Jewish responses to Christian claims. The references are highly variant, have many cryptic names for Jesus, and very different to the Gospel stories (e.g. one story has "Jesus" born about 100BC.) The Talmud contains NO evidence for Jesus, the Talmud merely has much later Jewish responses to the Gospel stories.
http://www.heartofisrael.org/chazak...es/intalmud.htm



Pliny the Younger.
Pliny referred to Christians who worshipped a "Christ" as a god, but there is no reference to a historical Jesus or Gospel events. Pliny is not evidence for a historical Jesus, just evidence for 2nd century Christians who worshipped a Christ.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/pliny.html

....and before you mention all the other historians who 'allegedly' wrote about Jesus, such as Josephus, Suetonius, Ignatius, Thallus, Phlegon, Valentinus, Polycarp, Lucian, Galen and Mara Bar Serapion, I can destroy those 'facts' as well.

Please show me a document from 0-100 A.D. that disputes someone named Jesus being crucified by the Romans.

There are none. Why would anyone record an event that didn't happen? Please show me the records from the Roman archives that show it did happen.

I believe the gospels circulated before 150 A.D

Then you are badly misinformed my friend. The most "authoritative" accounts of a historical Jesus come from the four canonical Gospels of the Bible. These Gospels did not come into the Bible as original and authoritative from the authors themselves, but rather from the influence of early church fathers, especially the most influential of them all: Irenaeus of Lyon who lived in the middle of the second century.

however, supposing that is the case, the apostles were teaching that Jesus was crucified in the first century A.D

Then the 'Burden of Proof' lies with you to prove it.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

Islam is just another form of Christian as I have show you in the post call where did Islam get its teaching from .

You have not shown anything you just made statements. How is Islam a form of Christianity? What is your evidence?

 

[pladecalvo]

pladecalvo -
I just noticed you were an atheist. Tell me, how you do make something out of nothing? Is it possible?

Sorry, I don't quite understand the question but I would say no, you can't make something out of nothing. Why do you ask?

 

[TehuTi]

True belief in Islam is Knowing without a doubt. Like what Allah says about the Quran Surah Baqarah verses 1-3

Belief Is Ignorance . Belief Is To Ignore The Facts Intentionally Or Ignorantly , If One Has To Believe , It Means He Or She Does Not Know . And If One Does Not Know , That Is Ignorance . Hence Belief Is Ignorance And Religious Belief WithOut The Facts Is Ignorance , ( Got The Point ) .

 

[lew0049]

Pladecalvo - I would respond to your comment now, but I have way too much to write in response to your post. For your information though, very little of what I write comes from the Bible. But I think it is important for you to understand that in any source, there will definitely be some form of biasness. I will reply tomorrow when I have time

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

Belief Is Ignorance . Belief Is To Ignore The Facts Intentionally Or Ignorantly , If One Has To Believe , It Means He Or She Does Not Know . And If One Does Not Know , That Is Ignorance . Hence Belief Is Ignorance And Religious Belief WithOut The Facts Is Ignorance , ( Got The Point ) .

No, Blind belief is ignorance. Our belief is stemmed from fact. The fact that Allah never lies and neither did his Messenger.

Your statement really makes no sense. Then why believe anything. I believe the sky looks blue. Is that ignorance on my part? I believe Geoge Bush lied to the American people am I ignorant because of that as well?

 

[McBell]

What????? Nazareth didn't exist until 2nd century C.E - This should some truly insightful information. So please, show me where you found that Nazareth wasn't around during the supposed time of Jesus.
And nobody ehard of Jesus until the mid 2nd century?? very interesting, especially since a non-christian Tacitus wrote about him in A.D 64, Talmud betwenn 70-110 A.D., Pliny the younger in 112 A.D...
And I was referring to people during that time. Please show me a document from 0-100 A.D. that disputes someone named Jesus being crucified by the Romans. I believe the gospels circulated before 150 A.D.; however, supposing that is the case, the apostles were teaching that Jesus was crucified in the first century A.D

Let me get this straight...
Are you asking for a document from that time that states that Jesus was never crucified?

 

[lew0049]

Tehuti - you are quite lost with this mindset. Belief revolves around the thought that there is more than what can be proven. If you believe that something has to be proven for it to be real then I truly am sad for you. Facts are extremely important, but to what extent do you need facts to believe? Knowledge, as far as life is concerned, is the understanding that you don't know everything and never will. Ignorance, is thinking that there isn't more than what can be proven.

 

[McBell]

Third and last time:

What????? Nazareth didn't exist until 2nd century C.E - This should some truly insightful information. So please, show me where you found that Nazareth wasn't around during the supposed time of Jesus.
And nobody ehard of Jesus until the mid 2nd century?? very interesting, especially since a non-christian Tacitus wrote about him in A.D 64, Talmud betwenn 70-110 A.D., Pliny the younger in 112 A.D...
And I was referring to people during that time. Please show me a document from 0-100 A.D. that disputes someone named Jesus being crucified by the Romans. I believe the gospels circulated before 150 A.D.; however, supposing that is the case, the apostles were teaching that Jesus was crucified in the first century A.D

Let me get this straight...
Are you asking for a document from that time that states that Jesus was never crucified?


And still waiting for all that proof you claimed to have as well.

 

[lew0049]

Yeah, I am going to type everything out more than likely later tonight. I'm in grad school and have only been able to get on for a minute or so the last two days as I have been swamped with work. Don't worry though, I won't forget

 

[lew0049]

Forget that quote Mestemia - I will include everything that I have found in my later response. Thanks though.

 

[logician]

The whole Jesus story is a fable, so Nazaruth is made up, just like everything else.

NObody can really say with any certainty when the supposed Jesus was born, when he died, and show any real independant contemporaneous history of the man.

 

[lew0049]

Without their faith what do they have.......nothing.

We have the thought that there is meaning in our life. Whereas an atheist views that their existance is a complete accident and theif life is purposeless.
And I am pretty sure without faith I would have the same as you. Being able to see something but see nothing more than what meets the eye.