The Witch of Endor (Witchcraft, wizards, or those that use divination)

[reddogs]

The Witch of Endor story in the bible has some wondering if this is allowed by God and the implications. Here is a good study by my friend D. Curtis and Palehorse on this issue..

1 Samuel 28:14

"And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself"

This spiritual séance has been cited as evidence for life after death. But here are points to the contrary:

1. Wizards had been sentenced to death and banned from the land (1 Samuel 28:3; Leviticus 20:27).

2. God had departed from Saul and would not communicate with him (1 Samuel 28:15).

3. Samuel was supposedly "brought up." Other expressions used in this passage include: "ascending out of the earth," "cometh up," and "bring ... up." (verses 13-15). Is this where the righteous dead are--down in the earth? Not according to those who believe in the immortal soul.

4. Samuel is described as an old man covered with a mantle. Is this the way immortal souls appear? And where did the soul get the body? They're supposed to be disembodied. Was there a resurrection? Did God obey the beck and call of the witch and raise up Samuel? If not, can Satan raise the dead?

5. The apparition of Samuel told Saul, "Tomorrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me." 1 Samuel 28:19. Saul committed suicide on the battlefield the next day. Where did Samuel dwell, if the wicked Saul was to go to the same place?

6. The Bible never says that Saul saw Samuel. He received his information secondhand from the witch, and only concluded it was Samuel from her description. The truth is that the devil deceived the dissolute old woman, and she deceived Saul. It was nothing more than a devil-generated séance.

7. The enormity of Saul's sin is revealed in these words: "So Saul died for his transgression ... and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it; and enquired not of the Lord: therefore he slew him." 1 Chronicles 10:13, 14..

 

[reddogs]

Now others another question that comes up, is those that say that Samuel was a spirit after his death and was brought down from heaven. Here is a good answer by Palehorse:

'This is an excellent question and I am anxious to address it.

The answer to your question is repeated three times but is often overlooked:

1Sa 28:6 And when Saul enquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.

1Sa 28:15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.


1Sa 28:16 Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the LORD is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy?

Do you see what I'm talking about? The LORD is NOT answering Saul— PERIOD. Hold that in your mind for a second while we continue.

Notice that twice that Lord is not answering Saul even thru PROPHETS. Well--what was Samuel? A prophet! So if God is NOT TALKING to Saul thru ANY means--who is? This next text tell us the answer:

1Ch 10:13 So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it; ("IT") as in FAMILAR SPIRIT--which is not Samuel.

Verse 14 tells us that Saul perceived it was Samuel, not that it was really Samuel; but for the sake of the story the name "Samuel" was used.

Saul had committed the final act of REBELLION by consulting someone that he KNEW had a familiar spirit, verse 7 tells us that plainly. Saul knew what he was doing--he knew God was not answering him--so he turned to the devil for help. Plain and simple.

Also--one more note (and one that avoids the witch issue)--notice in verse 13 where it says, "I saw gods ascending out of the earth"? Well, how does one reconcile the fact that these "gods" (elohiym el-o-heem--"angels, rulers")-were coming "out of the earth". Now certainly of all people, Samuel would have been called DOWN from heaven--not UP out of the earth if his spirit ascended as is the popular belief. You see, believing in the spirit ascending to heaven immediately after death AND believing that the story of Saul and the witch of Endor actually creates a irreconcilable contradiction.

Simply that GOD is not answering Saul--even thru a dead Samuel. When ole Samuel was alive where did he get his info from? From God, right? Why are we to suddenly believe that in death Samuel could produce his own answers?'

 

[whirlingmerc]

The Witch of Endor story in the bible has some wondering if this is allowed by God and the implications. Here is a good study by my friend D. Curtis and Palehorse on this issue..

1 Samuel 28:14

"And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself"

This spiritual séance has been cited as evidence for life after death. But here are points to the contrary:

1. Wizards had been sentenced to death and banned from the land (1 Samuel 28:3; Leviticus 20:27).

2. God had departed from Saul and would not communicate with him (1 Samuel 28:15).

3. Samuel was supposedly "brought up." Other expressions used in this passage include: "ascending out of the earth," "cometh up," and "bring ... up." (verses 13-15). Is this where the righteous dead are--down in the earth? Not according to those who believe in the immortal soul.

4. Samuel is described as an old man covered with a mantle. Is this the way immortal souls appear? And where did the soul get the body? They're supposed to be disembodied. Was there a resurrection? Did God obey the beck and call of the witch and raise up Samuel? If not, can Satan raise the dead?

5. The apparition of Samuel told Saul, "Tomorrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me." 1 Samuel 28:19. Saul committed suicide on the battlefield the next day. Where did Samuel dwell, if the wicked Saul was to go to the same place?

6. The Bible never says that Saul saw Samuel. He received his information secondhand from the witch, and only concluded it was Samuel from her description. The truth is that the devil deceived the dissolute old woman, and she deceived Saul. It was nothing more than a devil-generated séance.

7. The enormity of Saul's sin is revealed in these words: "So Saul died for his transgression ... and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it; and enquired not of the Lord: therefore he slew him." 1 Chronicles 10:13, 14..

We don't know some of those things with certainty....however...

1) it shows Saul sunk pretty low to go to the witch of Endor ( as you recall Endora from 'Bewitched" the TV series was named after her)

2) it portended Saul's death. It happened the night before he died

3) everything happened as was said suggesting it was probably from God so I lean toward it was Samuel

 

[Deeje]

We don't know some of those things with certainty....however...

1) it shows Saul sunk pretty low to go to the witch of Endor ( as you recall Endora from 'Bewitched" the TV series was named after her)

2) it portended Saul's death. It happened the night before he died

3) everything happened as was said suggesting it was probably from God so I lean toward it was Samuel

You don't think satan can fulfill his own prophesies?

God had departed from Saul so he did not have his protection.

 

[reddogs]

You don't think satan can fulfill his own prophesies?

God had departed from Saul so he did not have his protection.

That is true, Saul had place himself in the lair of Satan and reaped the consequences.

 

[reddogs]

We find more of what scripture has to say on this:

Leviticus 19:31: “Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them; I am the Lord your God.”

Leviticus 20:27: “A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death; they shall stone them with stones; their blood shall be upon them.”

Deuteronomy 18:9-12: “When thou art come into the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord; and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee.”

1 Samuel 15:23: “For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry.”

2 Chronicles 33:6: “And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom; also he observed times, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards; he wrought much evil in the sight of the Lord, to provoke him to anger.”

The New Testament also gives testimony against witchcraft or sorcery:

Galatians 5:19-21: “Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these: Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revelings and such like; of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”

Acts 8:9-11: “But there was a certain man called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one; to whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God. And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries.”

Revelation 21:8: “But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.”

Revelation 22:15: “For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.”

These scriptures show that dealing with familiar spirits, otherwise called sorcery, or witchcraft, is a sin and leads to worse.