The Wonderful Christian Message of Wonderfully Christian South Dakota

[Ody]

Strictly speaking, yes. However to say there has never been a national referendum on these is ignorant. There has never been a national referendum on anything! We dont have them!

Nope true direct democracy isn't Americas thing.

 

[Pah]

Strictly speaking, yes. However to say there has never been a national referendum on these is ignorant. There has never been a national referendum on anything! We dont have them!

I believe that was the point DakotaGypsy made to which you offered the 14th and 19th Amendments as examples of the national referendum. Perhaps you can offer something else national and governmental in character? Oh wait, you said there was nothing.

????? What are you trying to contribute? I don't see the ignorance here. You and Dakota seem to agree (her answer is true given your answer).

 

[dawny0826]

How sad. I'm not even sure what to say to this.

Sarcasm.

I never said it was warranted. But its a reality. Not just via abortion either.

I'm not discounting that it's not a reality. If you feel that it isn't warranted as well...we don't have anything to argue about on this point.

But I thought you said the governement wasn't responsible for teaching these things?

I don't feel that the government is RESPONSIBLE for this, no.

Again....just.....wow. I can't imagine being in a marriage where we could only be intimate with each other and experience that kind of love if we were trying to conceive. It's kind of. Sick. Really.

The married population of women only account for 18.4% of those who receive abortions. 64.4% are performed on NEVER MARRIED women.

And btw, these statistics are approved by planned parenthood.

http://www.abortionno.org/Resources/fastfacts.html

There you go again. If you MUST have sex (because only lusty naughty nympho women actually WANT to have sex right?) then use your common sense (because bc is 100% effective?).

This is just a personal attack against me.

Peoples soci-economic status is a huge, real and documented factor in many many things. Examples include obesity, heart disease, diabetes, alcoholism, drug use, teen pregnancy and almost anything really. Its not a cop out. Its called reality.

I don't discount that these circumstances are reality. However, I do NOT consider any justifications for terminating a pregnancy.

You also won't see them become rare if they are illegal (see previously cited statistics). You'll just see them become extremely dangerous for the mother, not to mention the baby on a black market with who knows what kind of "medical attention".

Do you expect pity from me, here?

Thsi goes back to education. I'm sure you agree at this point that this is the answer to stopping abortion.

Yes...we see eye to eye here.

Not to mention reducing teen pregnancy and unwanted pregnancy.

We agree here as well.

All without violating anyones choices about their own bodies. Amazing!

With the freedom of choice...comes the concept of responsibility.

I asked you specifically how you felt about self defense and capital punishment. YOur response was "let me clarify - I'm pro-life when it comes to ABORTION". Are you now saying you oppose the death penalty?

My views on the death penalty do not belong on this thread. Nor do my views on self defense.

Good for you! Not the case for many women. Women with deiseases. SEverly disbaled children. Abusive husbands they are on the verge of leaving. Emotional disorders. The list goes on and on. Probably wouldn't be much of a blessing for the baby either.

Then, why conceive when conception can be prevented? Again...running around in circles over and over.

I respect your views. I just don't agree.

Well as it stands in SD you can demand all you want. You wont get a thing. You also WOULD carry the child of your violent rapist attacker (hopefully your husband could deal with that and wouldnt abandon y ou and your other two children) because the state would force you to do so

You know my stance, here.

And...as many have stated...if one can't deal with the laws in SD...leave. Go elsewhere...where you feel your rights are being protected.

 

[Mister Emu]

I don't believe I've ever seen anything in American history books about a national referendum on slavery or the right of women to vote.

Given that officials are elected via popular vote...
Given that voters attempt to elect officials that advocate similar views...
Any descision made by such elected officials is a direct result of the will of the majority...

 

[JillianMarie77]

Sarcasm.

No, I just honestly didn't know what to say.

I don't feel that the government is RESPONSIBLE for this, no.

But they SHOULD do it? You say they're not responsible for doing it but they should. Yes?

The married population of women only account for 18.4% of those who receive abortions. 64.4% are performed on NEVER MARRIED women.

And? You said if people odn't want to have a baby they shouldn't have sex. I think thats a little wierd, regardless of abortion statistics.

This is just a personal attack against me.

How so? I though your comment was an attack on all of those sinful women who have sex for pleasure.

I don't discount that these circumstances are reality. However, I do NOT consider any justifications for terminating a pregnancy.

The good news in all of this is YOU don't have to justify the termination of anyones pregnancy besides your own!

Do you expect pity from me, here?

Pity for what? Criminalizing abortion will not make reduce it's occurrence. It won't reach your objective but it WILL endanger the lives of many many women whose circumstances you know nothing about. Pity? No. Perhaps some compassion, social responsibility. Maybe a little less piety. Certainly not pity.

With the freedom of choice...comes the concept of responsibility.

Explain to me again how a woman choosing an abortion escapes responsibility? She simply trades one set of responsibilites and circumstances for another. Do you think women just arbitrarily go to the clinic and get abortions because its just SO inconvenient to have a kid? Do you think they don't struggle with the decision? Do you think their hearts don't ache? Do you think they just walk away and its like nothing ever happened? Do you think these women are somehow not human?

My views on the death penalty do not belong on this thread. Nor do my views on self defense.

It does if you claim to be pro-life! If you claim life is sacred. Life belongs to god. We can't play god etc etc. Because if you say that and condone other types of killing (war, sd, cp etc) then you are just a hypocrite.

Then, why conceive when conception can be prevented? Again...running around in circles over and over.

Do you think women get pregnant on pupose and then go get abortions? If not "why conceive" is a silly question. Abortion is usually the result of UNINTENDED pregnancy.

I respect your views. I just don't agree.

And I understand that for religious reasons you have your views. However not all of us adhere to your religion and we don't want to be forced to live by your religions standards. Would you like to be forced to wear a burka 24/7 and not be allowed out of your home with out a blood related male escort? Would you like to not be allowed to drink coffe tea or wine? It's the same exact thing.

BTW - did you know that >84% of abortions are performed on christian women?

And...as many have stated...if one can't deal with the laws in SD...leave. Go elsewhere...where you feel your rights are being protected.

One could also say that if you don't like the individual freedoms afforded to Americans then leave and go somewhere where the government will make your personal, medical and moral choices for you.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLets get ready to RUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMBLEEEEEEEEEEEEKnockout I feel one of those "legislate from the bench" arguments of semantics coming on!

The phrase "legislate from the bench" is wholly indefensible if it is applied to the current legislative/judicial system in America. It is propaganda, not semantics.

America can be classified as a limited democracy because the system that we have is democratic in a sense: the word democracy can be defined and qualified in such a way that it adequately describes the system of government in America without purposefully deceiving people.


However, since no judge in America can legislate from the bench, the phrase is wholly deceitful and used to deceive people for political purposes.

EDIT: Perhaps what you're trying to express is that you're against judicial activism.

 

[dawny0826]

No, I just honestly didn't know what to say.

Actually, I was referring to myself.

But they SHOULD do it? You say they're not responsible for doing it but they should. Yes?

I'm a fairly conservative individual. I'm not for BIG government at all. However, I would prefer that the government promote sexual education AS OPPOSED to allowing non-therapeutic abortions...I don't think that it's necessarily the RESPONSIBLITY of the government to educate the people...when the people are more than capable of educating themselves...if they take the initiative to do so...starting within the family unit first ...with reiteration within communities.

And? You said if people odn't want to have a baby they shouldn't have sex. I think thats a little wierd, regardless of abortion statistics.

I don't think that an innocent life should be terminated because of an "error" with contraception.

I was being sarcastic. :sarcastic

I do believe that abstainance is a good concept for a couple who aren't comitted and aren't ready for a baby. And for the married couple...as I've stated before...statistically...over half of women who abort are NOT married.

If an individual wants to have sex and does not want a baby...an individual needs to be responsible enough to take precautions to prevent pregnancy. Again, I think charting is an excellent idea. If a woman is using contraception...her partner is using some for of contraceptive AND her body is telling her that she's NOT ovulating...it's unlikely that she's going to conceive.

How so? I though your comment was an attack on all of those sinful women who have sex for pleasure.

Oh please. I've stated...if you want to have sex...go for it but BE smart about it. If you don't want a baby...do everything possible to prevent pregnancy. Live responsibly.

The good news in all of this is YOU don't have to justify the termination of anyones pregnancy besides your own!

Forgive me for caring about those who can't speak for themselves. Want to label me a bigot because of it? Be my guest.

Pity for what? Criminalizing abortion will not make reduce it's occurrence. It won't reach your objective but it WILL endanger the lives of many many women whose circumstances you know nothing about. Pity? No. Perhaps some compassion, social responsibility. Maybe a little less piety. Certainly not pity.

I am not obliged to feel compassion for the woman who makes a decision to murder her unborn child.

I have been compassionate towards those in my life who have chosen this for themselves but I'm under no obligation to do so.

If abortion is criminalized...and a woman decides to have an illegal abortion anyway...why I should I pity her or feel compassion for her decision to do something that is illegal? And wrong to me?

Explain to me again how a woman choosing an abortion escapes responsibility?

Instead of attempting to bring the life that she was partially responsible for creating into this world...she opts instead to end it.

She simply trades one set of responsibilites and circumstances for another. Do you think women just arbitrarily go to the clinic and get abortions because its just SO inconvenient to have a kid?

Actually, according to statistical information...this is one of the main reasons, if not THE main reason WHY women abort their babies.

Do you think they don't struggle with the decision?

I'm sure there is struggle involved.

Do you think their hearts don't ache?

I doubt very seriously that there's much heart ache involved...when a woman goes on to have more than one in her lifetime.

Do you think they just walk away and its like nothing ever happened?

That would depen on the individual, I'm sure.

Do you think these women are somehow not human?

They're human. As are the lives that they destroy.

It does if you claim to be pro-life! If you claim life is sacred. Life belongs to god. We can't play god etc etc. Because if you say that and condone other types of killing (war, sd, cp etc) then you are just a hypocrite.

I haven't divulged a WORD to you about my views on war and the death penalty. If you want to debate these issues with me...we can go one on one or you can start another thread.

Do you think women get pregnant on pupose and then go get abortions?

I think a lot of the women who DO abort...make incredibly poor choices and act irresponsibly.

If not "why conceive" is a silly question. Abortion is usually the result of UNINTENDED pregnancy.

Unintended pregnancies which probably could have been prevented.

And I understand that for religious reasons you have your views. However not all of us adhere to your religion and we don't want to be forced to live by your religions standards.

Then utilize YOUR voice and I will continue to utilize mine.

Would you like to be forced to wear a burka 24/7 and not be allowed out of your home with out a blood related male escort? Would you like to not be allowed to drink coffe tea or wine? It's the same exact thing.

What about the rights of the unborn? I'm speaking up for the rights that I believe someone who can't speak for themselves should have.

You and I both have equal opportunity to express our views and do what we feel we need to do in our personal lives to support the causes that we feel passionate about. Our greatest obligation is to be true to what WE believe as individuals to be just and right.

I am very honest about who I am and what I believe. And I'm not going to sell out to appease others.

BTW - did you know that >84% of abortions are performed on christian women?

That's neither here nor there with me. It's one thing to claim that you are Christian and another to actually live your life AS a Christian.

One could also say that if you don't like the individual freedoms afforded to Americans then leave and go somewhere where the government will make your personal, medical and moral choices for you.

That goes both ways, you know?

Sadly, I doubt that abortion will ever be criminalized.

 

[JillianMarie77]

Forgive me for caring about those who can't speak for themselves. Want to label me a bigot because of it? Be my guest.
I am not obliged to feel compassion for the woman who makes a decision to murder her unborn child. I have been compassionate towards those in my life who have chosen this for themselves but I'm under no obligation to do so.

You are obliged to feel compassion for fetuses but not for adult humans? Is that in the bible? Did Jesus say that you don't have to feel compassion for people who do something you don't like? Because I'm pretty darn sure that the second greatest commandment is to love your neighbor. According to that crazy hippie jesus anyways. There was something else he said....something about a mote and a beam and a hypocrite. Sermon on the mount. My absolute favorite part of the bible. I refer to it daily in my own life. It's rather Beautiful

If abortion is criminalized...and a woman decides to have an illegal abortion anyway...why I should I pity her or feel compassion for her decision to do something that is illegal and wrong in my eyes?

What would Jesus do? Motes and beams. Motes and beams dear.

Instead of carrying the life that she helped to create full term...she decides to end it.

That doesn't answer the question. It actually makes my point rather clearly. But I was asking you to make yours.

Actually, according to statistical information...this is the #1 reason WHY women abort their babies.

Actually statistically "convenience" comes up under about 10 different categories like: Financially unable, Doesn't want more children, need to finish college etc. Don't tell me that these women don't sit down and really struggle with this.

I'm sure there is struggle involved.

Oh? I thought it was all a matter of convenience. No conscience involved at all. I'm pretty sure thats what you said.

I doubt very seriously that there's much heart ache involved...when a woman goes on to have more than one in her lifetime.

But....but....but....didn't you just say struggle was involved? Then again that was after you said it was just for convenience.... Well. Either way....When you have experience in the matter your doubt will carry some weight - assuming you still have it that is. YOu have no idea. None. This haunts women for the rest of their lives. ESPECIALLY if they find themselves where they need to do it again.

They're human. As are the lives that they terminate.

Right. But they don't deserve your compassion or empathy. Got it.

I haven't divulged a WORD to you about my views on war and the death penalty. If you want to debate these issues with me...we can go one on one or you can start another thread.

No need. Sometimes its what we DONT say that speaks for us.

I think a lot of the women who DO abort...made incredibly poor choices and act irresponsibly.

Maybe they do. Many don't. Who are you to judge? Seriously? You're morality and responsibility meter is your own. You haven't answered my question yet about how you'd feel if other peoples religion and morality were imposed upon you.

Then utilize YOUR voice and I utilize mine.

I do. I've got my congressman and my senators websites in my favorites. They hear from me often as does W.

What about the rights of the unborn? I'm speaking up for the rights that I believe someone who can't speak for themselves should have.

The unborn don't have rights until they are viable outside of the womb. Largely because we are not god.

You and I both have equal opportunity to express our views and do what we feel we need to do in our personal lives to support the causes that we feel passionate about. Our greatest obligation is to be true to what WE believe as individuals to be just and right.

Thats right. But our freedom should end the moment it infringes upon the freedom of others. You have the right to free speech but not to yell fire in a crowded theater. We can express our views and enact them in our perosnal lives but we should not be forcing other people to live by our standards.

I am very honest about who I am and what I believe. And I'm not going to sell out to appease others.

Learning new things and gaining additional perspective isn't selling out. You also have a right to change your mind about things - it isn't selling out. It's about being humble enough to know you don't know everything.

 

[JillianMarie77]

Just wanted to share this. It seems that even though abortion is legal and readily available the over-all rate of abortions is DECLINING (from a neutral source cited below). The only group that is NOT seeing a decline is women who live more than 200% below the poverty line (maybe because its so "inconvenient" to not be able to feed your kids each day). NOTE: I read somewhere else (maybe on PP) that the reason for the decline might be due to EC being available. So for those of you who don't like abortions maybe you should start harassing pharmacists so they'll do their jobs and fill Rx's! Anyways here you go:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: TUESDAY, OCTOBER 8, 2002

New Survey Finds That Abortion Occurs among Broad Cross-Section of American Women, But Is Increasingly Concentrated among Women with Low Incomes

The overall abortion rate in the United States decreased by 11% between 1994 and 2000, from 24 to 21 abortions each year per 1,000 women aged 15-44. This decline was not shared equally among all groups, and rates increased among economically disadvantaged women, according to a new analysis based on a survey of more than 10,000 women obtaining abortions in 2000-2001. The study, conducted by The Alan Guttmacher Institute (AGI), found that:
• 56% of U.S. women who obtain abortions are in their 20s;
• 67% have never married;
• 61% have one or more children;
• 88% live in a metropolitan area;
• 57% are economically disadvantaged (living below 200% of poverty); and
• 78% report a religious affiliation (43% Protestant, 27% Catholic and 8% other religions).
Adolescents. Declines in abortion rates were especially steep among adolescents, particularly 15-17-year-olds. The rate for this group fell to 15 abortions per 1,000 women in 2000 from 24 abortions per 1,000 women in 1994, a decline of 39%. Both abortion rates and birth rates for adolescents have been declining since the early 1990s, reflecting that fewer teens are becoming pregnant. However, the proportion of adolescent pregnancies ending in abortion remained stable from 1994 to 2000. An AGI analysis examining reasons for declining teen pregnancy rates between 1988 and 1995 found that three-quarters of the decrease was due to improved contraceptive use, while one-quarter was due to delayed sexual activity.
Women with low incomes. Although abortion rates have declined for most women, they have increased among the economically disadvantaged. High levels of abortion among economically disadvantaged women reflect that these women have high pregnancy rates, as well as a greater likelihood than women with higher incomes of ending a pregnancy in abortion. Overall, women who are better-off have lower pregnancy and abortion rates than poor and low-income women. As a result of the increase in abortion rates among economically disadvantaged women and a decline among middle- and higher-income women, the gap in abortion rates has widened and abortion has become more concentrated among economically disadvantaged women.

 

[JillianMarie77]

By the way Dawny - I hope there are no hard feelings on yoru end. There are none on mine. I just know that this debate can get very emotional for some people. Obviously its something we both feel strongly about. I just hope you are not taking anything personally as that is not how it is inteded. Well, except for that whole empathy/compassion part. That part really is for you

 

[dawny0826]

You are obliged to feel compassion for fetuses but not for adult humans? Is that in the bible? Did Jesus say that you don't have to feel compassion for people who do something you don't like? Because I'm pretty darn sure that the second greatest commandment is to love your neighbor. According to that crazy hippie jesus anyways. There was something else he said....something about a mote and a beam and a hypocrite. Sermon on the mount. My absolute favorite part of the bible. I refer to it daily in my own life. It's rather Beautiful

I'm a Christian. I think I know far better than you what MY JESUS expects of me.

I have always shown compassion to those in my life who have fallen on hard times and are faced with difficult decisions...even if I was deeply opposed to their decisions.

You're right...I AM supposed to have compassion for others, regardless. And I was wrong to make such a statement.

I do understand the concept of hating the sin and loving the sinner...which IS biblical.

So, perhaps I should have said something more along the lines of this...

I am to have compassion for the woman who aborts...but I don't have to accept abortion...and I do have the right to speak out against it and to support politicians who are anti-abortion.

What would Jesus do? Motes and beams. Motes and beams dear.

Do you really have the right to preach to me about MY religion?

That doesn't answer the question. It actually makes my point rather clearly. But I was asking you to make yours.

And I've already told you...I'm not doing so in THIS thread.

Actually statistically "convenience" comes up under about 10 different categories like: Financially unable, Doesn't want more children, need to finish college etc. Don't tell me that these women don't sit down and really struggle with this.

I'm sure there is struggle. As I stated in my last post.

Oh? I thought it was all a matter of convenience. No conscience involved at all. I'm pretty sure thats what you said.

I've stated my ENTIRE stance on this issue over and over again.

What are you hoping to achieve?

But....but....but....didn't you just say struggle was involved? Then again that was after you said it was just for convenience.... Well. Either way....When you have experience in the matter your doubt will carry some weight - assuming you still have it that is. YOu have no idea. None. This haunts women for the rest of their lives. ESPECIALLY if they find themselves where they need to do it again.

I'd say if a woman places herself in the position where she's having muliple abortions during her lifetime...SHE has personal issues to deal with. Somehow I doubt this woman is acting responsibly when she has sex.

Right. But they don't deserve your compassion or empathy. Got it.

You read what you want from my posts. I've stated the same thing over and over again.

We are never going to see eye to eye here. Get that?

No need. Sometimes its what we DONT say that speaks for us.

Sure.

Maybe they do. Many don't. Who are you to judge? Seriously? You're morality and responsibility meter is your own. You haven't answered my question yet about how you'd feel if other peoples religion and morality were imposed upon you.

I have the religious beleifs and moral beliefs of others shoved in my face on a daily basis.

I do. I've got my congressman and my senators websites in my favorites. They hear from me often as does W.

Good for you.

The unborn don't have rights until they are viable outside of the womb. Largely because we are not god.

Exactly! We are NOT God. Life is not ours to give or ours to take away. You and I will NEVER understand each other on this one.

Thats right. But our freedom should end the moment it infringes upon the freedom of others.

This goes both ways.

You have the right to free speech but not to yell fire in a crowded theater. We can express our views and enact them in our perosnal lives but we should not be forcing other people to live by our standards.

So, what you're saying is...the liberal's voice is the ONLY voice that is to be heard?

Learning new things and gaining additional perspective isn't selling out. You also have a right to change your mind about things - it isn't selling out. It's about being humble enough to know you don't know everything.

I also have the right to stand firm on my religious and moral beliefs...even if I step on the toes of others in the process.

 

[dawny0826]

By the way Dawny - I hope there are no hard feelings on yoru end. There are none on mine. I just know that this debate can get very emotional for some people. Obviously its something we both feel strongly about. I just hope you are not taking anything personally as that is not how it is inteded. Well, except for that whole empathy/compassion part. That part really is for you

You're more than welcome to make any assumptions you'd like about me as an individual. Those who know me personally...KNOW who I am and KNOW what I'm about.

If you'd like to assume that I'm not an empathetic or compassionate person based upon ONE issue that I'm currently debating...more power to you.

No hard feelings here and I'm glad that there are no hard feelings on your end.:kissbette

 

[Sunstone]

Just wanted to share this. It seems that even though abortion is legal and readily available the over-all rate of abortions is DECLINING (from a neutral source cited below). The only group that is NOT seeing a decline is women who live more than 200% below the poverty line (maybe because its so "inconvenient" to not be able to feed your kids each day). NOTE: I read somewhere else (maybe on PP) that the reason for the decline might be due to EC being available. So for those of you who don't like abortions maybe you should start harassing pharmacists so they'll do their jobs and fill Rx's! Anyways here you go:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: TUESDAY, OCTOBER 8, 2002

New Survey Finds That Abortion Occurs among Broad Cross-Section of American Women, But Is Increasingly Concentrated among Women with Low Incomes

The overall abortion rate in the United States decreased by 11% between 1994 and 2000, from 24 to 21 abortions each year per 1,000 women aged 15-44. This decline was not shared equally among all groups, and rates increased among economically disadvantaged women, according to a new analysis based on a survey of more than 10,000 women obtaining abortions in 2000-2001. The study, conducted by The Alan Guttmacher Institute (AGI), found that:
• 56% of U.S. women who obtain abortions are in their 20s;
• 67% have never married;
• 61% have one or more children;
• 88% live in a metropolitan area;
• 57% are economically disadvantaged (living below 200% of poverty); and
• 78% report a religious affiliation (43% Protestant, 27% Catholic and 8% other religions).
Adolescents. Declines in abortion rates were especially steep among adolescents, particularly 15-17-year-olds. The rate for this group fell to 15 abortions per 1,000 women in 2000 from 24 abortions per 1,000 women in 1994, a decline of 39%. Both abortion rates and birth rates for adolescents have been declining since the early 1990s, reflecting that fewer teens are becoming pregnant. However, the proportion of adolescent pregnancies ending in abortion remained stable from 1994 to 2000. An AGI analysis examining reasons for declining teen pregnancy rates between 1988 and 1995 found that three-quarters of the decrease was due to improved contraceptive use, while one-quarter was due to delayed sexual activity.
Women with low incomes. Although abortion rates have declined for most women, they have increased among the economically disadvantaged. High levels of abortion among economically disadvantaged women reflect that these women have high pregnancy rates, as well as a greater likelihood than women with higher incomes of ending a pregnancy in abortion. Overall, women who are better-off have lower pregnancy and abortion rates than poor and low-income women. As a result of the increase in abortion rates among economically disadvantaged women and a decline among middle- and higher-income women, the gap in abortion rates has widened and abortion has become more concentrated among economically disadvantaged women.

I suspect that most of the women who are living 200% below the poverty line are next to living on the street. If that's so, then they are a very sexually vulnerable group of people. I've known some such women, and they were seldom in stable relationships, and often had to resort to trading sex for a place to sleep. They lived day to day and sometimes hour to hour. Foresight and planning were not their strong points. It is scarcely amazing that they often became pregnant.

 

[DakotaGypsy]

Given that officials are elected via popular vote...
Given that voters attempt to elect officials that advocate similar views...
Any descision made by such elected officials is a direct result of the will of the majority...

Unless they vote on Diebold voting machines and the results are "adjusted."

 

[DakotaGypsy]

Dawny, do you advocate abstinence-only sex education?

 

[JillianMarie77]

I'm a Christian. I think I know far better than you what MY JESUS expects of me.
I have always shown compassion to those in my life who have fallen on hard times and are faced with difficult decisions...even if I was deeply opposed to their decisions.

Is he just yours? I lived your religion for years. I think I know a bit about it myself. I also still learn from YOUR JESUS from time to time.

You're right...I AM supposed to have compassion for others, regardless. And I was wrong to make such a statement. I do understand the concept of hating the sin and loving the sinner...which IS biblical.
So, perhaps I should have said something more along the lines of this...
I am to have compassion for the woman who aborts...but I don't have to accept abortion...and I do have the right to speak out against it and to support politicians who are anti-abortion.

Thats much better. Much more humane and.....well....christian!

Do you really have the right to preach to me about MY religion?

Of course I do. Do you presume to tell me I can't come to know religions and understand their motiations, teachings and practices? I don't claim to be a theologian or a scriptorian but I've done may fair share of reading praying and pondering the scriptures. YOu can count on me if you ever need any more reminders

I'd say if a woman places herself in the position where she's having muliple abortions during her lifetime...SHE has personal issues to deal with. Somehow I doubt this woman is acting responsibly when she has sex.

Probably not but you still don't have any right or reason to judge her.

We are never going to see eye to eye here. Get that?

I never say never I'm an optimist!

I have the religious beleifs and moral beliefs of others shoved in my face on a daily basis.

Oh please, expand on this. I'd like to hear about it.

So, what you're saying is...the liberal's voice is the ONLY voice that is to be heard?

What on earth makes you think so? I also don't consider myself liberal.

 

[dawny0826]

Dawny, do you advocate abstinence-only sex education?

Yes and no.

 

[dawny0826]

Is he just yours? I lived your religion for years. I think I know a bit about it myself. I also still learn from YOUR JESUS from time to time.

Good for you.

Thats much better. Much more humane and.....well....christian!

Gee...thanks.

Of course I do. Do you presume to tell me I can't come to know religions and understand their motiations, teachings and practices?

No...I was only responding to those little patronizing undertones in your last post.

I don't claim to be a theologian or a scriptorian but I've done may fair share of reading praying and pondering the scriptures. YOu can count on me if you ever need any more reminders

Glad to know that you'll set me straight.

Probably not but you still don't have any right or reason to judge her.

I DO have a right to have an opinion about someone or something...positive or negative.

I never say never I'm an optimist!

That's not a bad "thing" to be at all...

Oh please, expand on this. I'd like to hear about it.

This is another topic that's probably best to save for another thread.

What on earth makes you think so? I also don't consider myself liberal.

What do you consider yourself, then? I don't ask this to flame you. I'm truly curious.

 

[JillianMarie77]

No...I was only responding to those little patronizing undertones in your last post.

Ouch. SOrry. Old habits die hard. I've had some hard rounds with some oh so sweet and compassionate christ-like christians (not) and I sometimes take to throwing it in their faces:bonk:

What do you consider yourself, then? I don't ask this to flame you. I'm truly curious.

Well. Moderate. I live a fairly conservative life. I'm married with 3 children born in wedlock. I think thats the best thing. I don't drink, smoke or drink coffee (I've recently taken to an occasional glass of wine) however I lean liberal in my thinking in as far as I don't think everyone should be forced to live my kind of life

 

[dawny0826]

Ouch. SOrry. Old habits die hard. I've had some hard rounds with some oh so sweet and compassionate christ-like christians (not) and I sometimes take to throwing it in their faces:bonk:

Well, I'm sure in all fairness, some of those "oh so sweet and compassionate christ-like christians" were deserving. (And I meant no offense by my retort, btw.)

Well. Moderate. I live a fairly conservative life. I'm married with 3 children born in wedlock. I think thats the best thing. I don't drink, smoke or drink coffee (I've recently taken to an occasional glass of wine) however I lean liberal in my thinking in as far as I don't think everyone should be forced to live my kind of life.

I'm married with two little ones. I'm with you on not drinking and not smoking but I do enjoy caffeinated beverages.

Although, I tend to vote conservatively...I hug the fence on many social issues. Abortion happens to be the one issue that I am admittedly, pretty right wing on. Otherwise, I'm pretty right of the middle but left of the right.

I don't necessarily feel that people should be forced to live my kind of lifestyle either.