The word "Pagan"

[Vorinn]

Pagan. An umbrella term covering, at the least, a lot of disparate belief and practice systems; and at the most, any non-Abrahamic or maybe even non-Christian religion.

I would argue that in that last guise it's not a terribly useful term, but I really do think there are things that unite those of us who choose to identify ourselves as Pagan, beyond just that we are not Abrahamic believers. But it can be hard to articulate what those are.

I define myself primarily as Pagan. I don't feel that there is a more specific term that covers my path very well. Yes, it's nonspecific, but that's okay with me, especially since my path is still shifting.

T. Thorn Coyle had some blog posts that I thought covered these questions well recently: one and two.

So, what do people here think? Should we be calling ourselves Pagan? Should we choose a more specific term, even if it doesn't quite seem to fit? What is your relationship with the word?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I thought it was an umbrella term for polytheistic religions.

 

[Vorinn]

I thought it was an umbrella term for polytheistic religions.

That's one possible definition, yes. But it's more complicated than that. Typical uses of the term don't generally include polytheistic Hindus, for instance. And there are people who identify as atheist or agnostic Pagans, and some Pagan schools of thought that look a lot like monotheism.

I don't personally think that equating Pagan with polytheist is very useful, in other words. There's already a good word for polytheism - polytheism. Which is also an umbrella term, but not one that many (any?) people identify with primarily.

 

[Vorinn]

Actually, maybe I should take a step back and write a little about some of the definitions that have been used over the years, all of which are in my opinion incomplete.

First off, it comes etymologically from a Latin word that meant "country dweller." Obviously no one uses it that way now. You could get in big trouble for traveling around the U.S. calling everyone you meet who doesn't live in a city a pagan! If I understand the history correctly, it came to mean non-Christian when Christianity came to the Roman empire, as the people in the cities converted first.

It can be used to mean non-Christian or non-Abrahamic religions for that reason. I don't think specifically having a word for non-Christian is very helpful at all anymore, except within very, very strongly Christian cultures. Non-Abrahamic might be slightly more helpful, but again, that's still acting within an Abrahamic framework, and a lot of non-Abrahamic followers would object to being called Pagan.

Sometimes people try to describe Pagan religion as pre-Christian religion, or maybe specifically pre-Christian European religion. I think this is fading, though, as pretty much everyone these days realizes that Wicca, for instance, is far more new than old.

Other times, people say that Pagan religions are those that are earth-centered, or polytheistic. But not everyone who identifies as Pagan is either of those things, although they are common in paths that we understand as Pagan.

One of the commenters on the second of the blog posts I linked earlier suggests a checklist, where you need to identify with some number but not all of the items in order to be considered Pagan. I like that approach, although I think we could argue forever about the exact content of the checklist and exactly how many items you need to be able to check.

I don't think it's ever going to be cut-and-dried, but I do think that those of us who choose to identify as Pagans (as opposed to those who might be identified that way by others but who would not take that label on themselves) have some commonalities that are worth exploring. And I think it's valid to describe yourself simply as Pagan, even if that can mean many things to many people.

I hope this post clarifies more of what I'm thinking with this thread.

 

[Gentoo]

Pagan is one of those words that no one definition can encompass. There are as many definitions as there are pagans. If you like it, use it, I say.

 

[Oneatatime]

My understanding of the term was that it refered to anything that wasn't Christian. The writing of Plato and other philosophers are by Christian standards pagan writings.

 

[Vinayaka]

My understanding of the term was that it refered to anything that wasn't Christian. The writing of Plato and other philosophers are by Christian standards pagan writings.

That's what I thought to. Them and us. Good guys and bad guys. "You're either for us, or agin us."

 

[Oneatatime]

That's what I thought to. Them and us. Good guys and bad guys. "You're either for us, or agin us."

Christianity borrowed from 'pagan' philosophies such as Stoicm to flesh itself out a bit and there have been Christians who saw value in 'pagan' philosophies as long as they remained secondary to Christian, although this becomes something of an odd relationship when its partly based on 'pagan' philosphies to start off with.

 

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

I use Heathen for myself and other Germanic Pagans, and I use Pagan for anything else

 

[Requia]

My understanding of the term was that it refered to anything that wasn't Christian. The writing of Plato and other philosophers are by Christian standards pagan writings.

If I remember my Latin classes correctly, Pagan meant civilian when used by the military, and referred to somebody who lived in the country (with overtones of ignorance and poverty) when used by someone from the city.

This is actually the usage until fairly recently, the non christian definition is much more recent (the 1913 Webster includes both the classical civilian definition and the more modern non-christian definition).

 

[Antiochian]

Agree with Gentoo. Some groups such as School/Church of Wicca do not call themselves Pagan. Some Native Americans (once considered "Pagan" by Christian missionaries) do not like to be called Pagan, but Native American writer Zitkala Sa did call herself by that title. Some include Voudou in the mix, some will not. Some might add Hindus and Buddhists to the mix, but Hindus and Buddhists might think otherwise. New Agers (there's another ambiguous term) might not want to be called Pagans, some perhaps would. Paganism can include anything from ancient tribal animistic beliefs to modern or Neopagan beliefs such as Wicca, Neo-Druidry, Church of All Worlds, etc. And it's a term that we didn't choose for ourselves, but one that Christians gave to followers of the old religions.

But many followers of Earth-based spirituality have reclaimed the word "Pagan" (or "Neopagan") with pride, even if it wasn't the name we gave ourselves, kind of like the term "Witch." I personally am proud to call myself Pagan and a Witch.

I like the name "Heathen" as well. Any one know why that title seems to be reserved for followers of Asatru?

 

[Jacksnyte]

Agree with Gentoo. Some groups such as School/Church of Wicca do not call themselves Pagan. Some Native Americans (once considered "Pagan" by Christian missionaries) do not like to be called Pagan, but Native American writer Zitkala Sa did call herself by that title. Some include Voudou in the mix, some will not. Some might add Hindus and Buddhists to the mix, but Hindus and Buddhists might think otherwise. New Agers (there's another ambiguous term) might not want to be called Pagans, some perhaps would. Paganism can include anything from ancient tribal animistic beliefs to modern or Neopagan beliefs such as Wicca, Neo-Druidry, Church of All Worlds, etc. And it's a term that we didn't choose for ourselves, but one that Christians gave to followers of the old religions.

But many followers of Earth-based spirituality have reclaimed the word "Pagan" (or "Neopagan") with pride, even if it wasn't the name we gave ourselves, kind of like the term "Witch." I personally am proud to call myself Pagan and a Witch.

I like the name "Heathen" as well. Any one know why that title seems to be reserved for followers of Asatru?

Some Satanists identify as Pagan also. Pagan is definitely an extremely broad term.

 

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

I like the name "Heathen" as well. Any one know why that title seems to be reserved for followers of Asatru?

I prefer Heathen as well. I haven't necessarily heard Asatruar call themselves Heathens, but followers of the Anglo-Saxon version of Asatru call themselves Heathen. They do it because Heathen is the Anglo-Saxon term for the non-Christians, so they adopted that name.

 

[thalassa]

I'm sort of a fan of trying to flesh out a checklist and approaching the whole thing from the viewpoint that (big-P) Paganism is a polythetic definition (meaning that there are many shared characteristics, but they are not necessarily *all* shared).