Theism vs atheism

[blackout]

I have to ask. If you wouldn't say you "believe in a deity", then why would you consider yourself a theist? It's not that you can't. You can consider yourself anything you want. It just doesn't seem useful to do so, if you don't actually fit the definition.

I could quite easily say "I believe in a deity" ...
but it would not mean what you expect it to.

and....
(just out of curiosity)

What is "the definition", actually?

 

[ThereIsNoSpoon]

Or not. What I do not get is why we must put attributes to such general concepts. Atheism is just a lack of belief in deities. Theists believes in deities. Why do we have to put additional attributes to that? Why do we need to say that atheists/theists are genocidal, do not give to charity, commit suicide, are murderes, intolerant, and so on? Why can´t we just look at them for what they are and why can´t we just look at people as individuals instead of looking at if they believe in deities or not?

Because it is not so!

You see if you are a theist and believe in a scripture that tells you that atheists are fools or evil then you can't discard that. You won't.

And if you are an atheist and see what believers do to you or how they try to impose their religion on others (including you) then you also can't.

Of course not all theists do that and of course not all atheists react. Of course there are also deluded atheists and reacting" theists.

But the point simply is that it is part of religious doctrine to include passages of intolerance against "others". In the end it is up to the theist as an individual how far he wants to agree or use these verses and not others that might be used for tolerance issues.

 

[Magic Man]

I could quite easily say "I believe in a deity" ...
but it would not mean what you expect it to.

But that's my point. You wouldn't use that to describe yourself, so why would you use "theist"?

and....
(just out of curiosity)

What is "the definition", actually?

"belief in the existence of a god or gods " from Dictionary.com

 

[blackout]

But that's my point. You wouldn't use that to describe yourself, so why would you use "theist"?



"belief in the existence of a god or gods " from Dictionary.com

I wouldn't use it, primarily because it would be misunderstood/misinterpreted.

I see the ALL of Existence... the living Sentient UniVerse ...
which includes Me... and You .... as gOd.

All of the "believing" and "disbelieving" and "non-believing" I do...
I do IN (withIN, or as One with) the Living Sentient UniVerse.

I KNOW the UniVerse is Sentient because I am Sentient,
and I am an integral part of the UniVerse.

So yes, I do all my believing IN gOd.

I believe IN gOd.
I disbelieve IN gOd.
I suspend disbelief IN gOd.
I non-believe IN gOd.

These statements are all equally true.

 

[Magic Man]

I wouldn't use it, primarily because it would be misunderstood/misinterpreted.

I see the ALL of Existence... the living Sentient UniVerse ...
which includes Me... and You .... as gOd.

All of the "believing" and "disbelieving" and "non-believing" I do...
I do IN (withIN, or as One with) the Living Sentient UniVerse.

I KNOW the UniVerse is Sentient because I am Sentient,
and I am an integral part of the UniVerse.

So yes, I do all my believing IN gOd.

I believe IN gOd.
I disbelieve IN gOd.
I suspend disbelief IN gOd.
I non-believe IN gOd.

These statements are all equally true.

OK, but that's a different meaning of the phrase "believe in God". Also, what you're saying is more that you're pantheistic or panentheistic. Using one of those two terms would clear up a lot of confusion I'd say.

 

[blackout]

I have to ask. If you wouldn't say you "believe in a deity", then why would you consider yourself a theist? It's not that you can't. You can consider yourself anything you want. It just doesn't seem useful to do so, if you don't actually fit the definition.

Does calling mySelf a Pantheist or a Panenthiest
make me any less a theist?

(than any other kind of theist?)

 

[blackout]

:areyoucra



*checks thread title*




:areyoucra




*re-reads OP*




:areyoucra

 

[blackout]

Psst... Wizard....


Go read the first post in this thread.
(We call that the OP, for Original Post)
That's what the thread is about.

Would you like to discuss it with us?


oh, and welcome to RF.

 

[Magic Man]

Does calling mySelf a Pantheist or a Panenthiest
make me any less a theist?

(than any other kind of theist?)

Well, honestly I would say "Yes". I think the "theist" in those terms is misleading.

But, regardless, even if you disregard that and it doesn't make you less of a theist, it still qualifies your beliefs more than saying you're a theist. It's like someone asking me why my name is Mathieu. I could answer that it's because I'm human, but that's not really a good answer. Instead, saying "I'm French" responds sufficiently to the question. My being French doesn't make me less human, but it does explain some things more than my being human does.

 

[blackout]

Well, honestly I would say "Yes". I think the "theist" in those terms is misleading.

But, regardless, even if you disregard that and it doesn't make you less of a theist, it still qualifies your beliefs more than saying you're a theist. It's like someone asking me why my name is Mathieu. I could answer that it's because I'm human, but that's not really a good answer. Instead, saying "I'm French" responds sufficiently to the question. My being French doesn't make me less human, but it does explain some things more than my being human does.

Well wouldn't the same hold true for a "poly-theist"? for example?

People assume all theisms are like those of christianity
simply because christianity is the majority religion in our country.

When people ask "do you believe in God",
they mean "do you believe in the christian god"... 8x out of 10.

But these assumptions are related to the assumptions the OP was talking about.

It's a real pain in the *** being a non mainstream theist.
You have to explain everything to everyone.
I'm not blaming that on anyone either.
It's just how it is.

When someone says to me, "Do you believe in gOd"
there is no simple answer.

I do sometimes say "my view of gOd is more that of a Pantheist or a Panentheist".
To which most people respond with either a completely blank stare,
or say "What's that".

Maybe I should write the words down and send them to wiki.

EDIT: It's not that I mind explaining to someone who is truly interested mind you,
really I do like sharing what I see/do/experience... but often there really is not time,
or you can tell the person isn't REALLY interested enough to make it worth your effort.

Sometimes I'll say "yes, but I'm not christian. I don't believe in the christian god"
If it is a christian, they will then be sure you are Wiccan/New Age/Nature religion.
Which I am not.
Some christians cannot wrap their minds around the idea that there are other god concepts
besides christian, and wiccan/new age/nature.
Some athiests cannot wrap their minds around the idea that there are other god concepts besides christian.

 

[blackout]

.... why can´t we just look at people as individuals ...

It really makes no sense to do anything else.

"classifications" will only take you so far.

Besides, We are talking about PEOPLE. Not classifications.

 

[Magic Man]

Well wouldn't the same hold true for a "poly-theist"? for example?

Not really. Polytheists' gods are very similar to the classic theistic God, as in Christianity. There just happen to be more of them.

People assume all theisms are like those of christianity
simply because christianity is the majority religion in our country.

Many people do. The fact is, though, that pantheism is closer to atheism than to theism, and I'd probably say the same for panentheism.

When someone says to me, "Do you believe in gOd"
there is no simple answer.

I think there is. You say you believe in a god, therefore your answer would be "yes". Your concept is different than many others, though, and so calling you a theist isn't quite sufficient. So, answering the question of whether or not you believe in a god is easy. Explaining what your concept of god is would be the more difficult part.

 

[blackout]

Ok, well I don't want to derail the thread,
but I think the exchange did speak to the OP
if only in a roudabout way.

I think it stresses the point that we can't make assumptions about one another
based on a label.

 

[Kerr]

This is a discussion of definitions, when I said "theist" I meant all god-concepts.

It really makes no sense to do anything else.

"classifications" will only take you so far.

Besides, We are talking about PEOPLE. Not classifications.

Yeah, I agree. Some people, though...

 

[The Wizard]

Though my knowledge is limited, I have always put atheism and theism on the same token. Both rather being sort of an opposite of extreme for the same thing. I always like to think that one cannot have the yin, without the yang.