Theistic Evolution?

[Sunstone]

I don't have a problem with calling the soul an emergent property.

I'd prefer to stick to things that are well evidenced. The soul is not. Nor is pixie dust.

 

[arthra]

Evolution and creation I don't believe are mutually exclusive... In the Baha'i Writings creation is a continuous process .. It has no beginning or ending as in say the traditional view of say the six days of creation. Evolution is also accepted in the following context:

"From the beginning of existence in the womb of the terrestrial globe, man gradually grew and developed like the embryo in the womb of its mother, and passed from one shape and form to another until he appeared with this beauty and perfection, this power and constitution."

http://www.bahai.org/library/authoritative-texts/abdul-baha/some-answered-questions/#f=f9-600

 

[Sunstone]

Could you elaborate on why you feel that is necessarily the case? I ask because I don't seem to have this problem...

As I stated before: A lack of evidence in support of the notion that evolution has a purpose. You could, of course, assert in the absence of evidence that evolution has a purpose after all. Just as I could, in the absence of evidence, assert that undetectable pixies are living in my closet. Perhaps the only grounds we have for believing either is what makes us feel good.

 

[Gambit]

Okay, understood.

Catholicism (unofficially) subscribes to theistic evolution. However, the Church rejects polygenism. (Monogenism in the form of the "out of Africa" theory is actually the most widespread theory.)

 

[Gambit]

I think there is a problem only for people that take a literal/fundamentalist Biblical view (which you said you do not). The difference I see is that atheists believe abiogenesis and evolution occurred through the course of natural laws only. Theistic evolution also includes conscious intelligence in the process. I happen to believe in abiogenesis and evolution guided by the intelligence of nature spirits.

Nature spirits?

 

[George-ananda]

Nature spirits?

Yes, another class of beings serving the greater good. They reside on planes above the dense physical but some are very close to the physical. Many sensitive human types experience them. There is a hierarchy of such entities.

 

[Gambit]

Yes, another class of beings serving the greater good. They reside on planes above the dense physical but some are very close to the physical. Many sensitive human types experience them. There is a hierarchy of such entities.

What's the greater good?

 

[George-ananda]

What's the greater good?

Working under the direction of higher beings to help create the play/drama of the divine. In this case, the creation of physical beings through which spiritual ascendancy can occur.

 

[Gambit]

I'd prefer to stick to things that are well evidenced. The soul is not. Nor is pixie dust.

So, does mean that you really do not believe that consciousness is a nonreducible emergent property?

 

[Gambit]

Working under the direction of higher beings to help create the play/drama of the divine. In this case, the creation of physical beings through which spiritual ascendancy can occur.

What do you mean by the divine?

 

[George-ananda]

What do you mean by the divine?

Perhaps I should have used the word 'Brahman' but I feel not many people really understand what is meant by that word. I'll say 'Brahman' next time now that I think about it.

I'm talking about Brahman's grand play/drama where He separates Himself from Himself and returns Himself to Himself. Nature spirits are one of the actors with a role in the play.

 

[Gambit]

I'm talking about Brahman's grand play/drama where He separates Himself from Himself and returns Himself to Himself. Nature spirits are one of the actors with a role in the play.

Is this a conscious process or an unconscious one?

 

[George-ananda]

Is this a conscious process or an unconscious one?

If I understand your question, I would say nature spirits are conscious beings working with an intent.

 

[Gambit]

If I understand your question, I would say nature spirits are conscious beings working with an intent.

What about Brahman?

 

[George-ananda]

What about Brahman?

Brahman is pure infinite consciousness.

 

[Gambit]

Brahman is pure infinite consciousness.

Is this pure infinite consciousness working with an intent?

 

[George-ananda]

Is this pure infinite consciousness working with an intent?

Brahman has a creative aspect that creates the play/drama of the universe. The infinite experience finiteness and the return to infiniteness.

 

[Skwim]

In its least corrupt form, I've always understood theistic evolution to consist of nothing more than asserting god as its first cause. From there on theistic evolution quickly plunges into the depths of various forms of creationism.

 

[Gambit]

Brahman has a creative aspect that creates the play/drama of the universe. The infinite experience finiteness and the return to infiniteness.

Does this mean that Brahman is working with intent?

 

[Jumi]

Believing in "theistic evolution" was the norm among Christians in Northern Europe. Creationism was seen more as an American phenomenon. The fact that it was imported here has been a cause for people to divorce themselves from that faith. Every time there is a news piece where a Christian politician or priest talks about creationism or some other pseudoscience as scientifically valid we can see people leaving the state church.