Theist's the Hard Truth

[Nakosis]

If you were born to a devout Hindu family in Mumbai India, or to a pious Christian family in Atlanta Georgia, would you be a convinced Muslim today? Of course, you cannot answer that question for certain but, statistically there is an extremely high probability that you would be a Hindu or a Christian and you would believe Muslims have got almost everything wrong.

Hindus and Christians can ask themselves a similar question and they will get a similar result.

The hard truth is, you are not certain your faith is true because you have determined it is true through evidence and reason; you are certain it is true because you have been TRAINED to believe it is true, and to behave as though it is true.

The hardest truth of all is, with respect to your faith, you have more in common with a performing dog than with a rational, intelligent human being.
The hardest truth of all - Atheist Alliance International

It's annoy a Theist week, or, on the road to becoming a militant atheist.

So the idea is that you believe because you were train to believe. Can you convince yourself or someone else otherwise?

As a kid many get trained to think in terms of a God. Even if raised as an atheist it's hard to escape being taught what God is, even as someone else's belief.

So you convert from one religion to another, still thinking in terms of God. Or maybe as a atheist convert to some belief, thinking in terms of a God you were taught not to believe in.

I'm not saying atheists don't have their own issues with being trained in how to think. but, does the belief in God persist because it's is how we were trained to think?

 

[Twilight Hue]

I remember when I used to be a Christian, one day while sitting there, I suddenly realized that these are just people in a room talking about their beliefs and singing songs. There was nothing special nor unique to show for it all that would set Christians and Christianity for that matter apart from anybody else out there.

You just walk into the room discuss and / or sing the topic at hand and walk out of the room when it concludes with nothing more better or worse to show for it in comparison with anybody else. The world along with the universe just continues on as it always has.

 

[SomeRandom]

If you were born to a devout Hindu family in Mumbai India, or to a pious Christian family in Atlanta Georgia, would you be a convinced Muslim today? Of course, you cannot answer that question for certain but, statistically there is an extremely high probability that you would be a Hindu or a Christian and you would believe Muslims have got almost everything wrong.

Hindus and Christians can ask themselves a similar question and they will get a similar result.

The hard truth is, you are not certain your faith is true because you have determined it is true through evidence and reason; you are certain it is true because you have been TRAINED to believe it is true, and to behave as though it is true.

The hardest truth of all is, with respect to your faith, you have more in common with a performing dog than with a rational, intelligent human being.
The hardest truth of all - Atheist Alliance International

It's annoy a Theist week, or, on the road to becoming a militant atheist.

So the idea is that you believe because you were train to believe. Can you convince yourself or someone else otherwise?

As a kid many get trained to think in terms of a God. Even if raised as an atheist it's hard to escape being taught what God is, even as someone else's belief.

So you convert from one religion to another, still thinking in terms of God. Or maybe as a atheist convert to some belief, thinking in terms of a God you were taught not to believe in.

I'm not saying atheists don't have their own issues with being trained in how to think. but, does the belief in God persist because it's is how we were trained to think?

I can't speak to all Hindus, just myself, but I see religion the same way one views culture. Just something you're born into. Obviously there's converts. But there is a strong sense of cultural identity tied to one's religion. Personal belief is personal, so one can choose whatever sect or religion or lack thereof suits a person. Hell there are even atheistic schools of the Dharmics. Even a couple of outlier rebel atheists in the Christian sects. That's the prevailing thought in the Dharmic paradigm, at least from what I can see.
But I don't think Muslims are wrong, or Christians. They're just.......different. I disagree with some of their views. I won't say they're wrong, because I honestly don't know.

What path one chooses philosophically is one's choice. The high number of ex (insert religion here) is kind of proof that people can reject their religion and find their own way.
Though I can appreciate that there is a lot of mechanical learnt ways of thinking and programming. Much like societal manners and etiquette. I do not deny indoctrination is a thing in religions in general.

I do not presume I have found any truth. My rational side will fight with my more flighty artsy side.
Though I find myself more and more indifferent towards theism in general, these days.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I can't speak to all Hindus, just myself, but I see religion the same way one views culture. Just something you're born into. Obviously there's converts. But belief is personal, hell there are even atheistic schools of the Dharmics. Even a couple of outlier rebel atheists in the Christian sects. But I don't think Muslims are wrong, or Christians. They're just.......different. I disagree with some of their views. I won't say they're wrong, because I honestly don't know.

What path one chooses philosophically is one's choice. The high number of ex (insert religion here) is kind of proof that people can reject their religion and find their own way.

I can appreciate that there is a lot of mechanical learnt ways of thinking and programming. Much like societal manners.
Though I find myself more and more indifferent towards theism in general, these days.

You know an interesting thing is I think theism is just a form of dissatisfaction associated with life and living in general.

Theism got hard for me because I just couldn't accept it anymore in terms of claims versus the realities around us.

I figured I'd just drop theism all together and just learn to finally accept the world along with life and living as it naturally presents itself on its own terms and in its own way.

 

[SomeRandom]

You know an interesting thing is I think theism is just a form of dissatisfaction associated with life and living in general.

Theism got hard for me because I just couldn't accept it anymore in terms of claims versus the realities around us.

I figured I'd just drop theism all together and just learn to finally accept the world along with life and living as it naturally presents itself on its own terms and in its own way.

I think it's more existential angst, in some cases even a form of arrogance. But I see merit in your claim.

 

[Salvador]

If you were born to a devout Hindu family in Mumbai India, or to a pious Christian family in Atlanta Georgia, would you be a convinced Muslim today? Of course, you cannot answer that question for certain but, statistically there is an extremely high probability that you would be a Hindu or a Christian and you would believe Muslims have got almost everything wrong.

Hindus and Christians can ask themselves a similar question and they will get a similar result.

The hard truth is, you are not certain your faith is true because you have determined it is true through evidence and reason; you are certain it is true because you have been TRAINED to believe it is true, and to behave as though it is true.

The hardest truth of all is, with respect to your faith, you have more in common with a performing dog than with a rational, intelligent human being.
The hardest truth of all - Atheist Alliance International

It's annoy a Theist week, or, on the road to becoming a militant atheist.

So the idea is that you believe because you were train to believe. Can you convince yourself or someone else otherwise?

As a kid many get trained to think in terms of a God. Even if raised as an atheist it's hard to escape being taught what God is, even as someone else's belief.

So you convert from one religion to another, still thinking in terms of God. Or maybe as a atheist convert to some belief, thinking in terms of a God you were taught not to believe in.

I'm not saying atheists don't have their own issues with being trained in how to think. but, does the belief in God persist because it's is how we were trained to think?

I was a born atheist; the first time I remember hearing about God was when I was 5 years old; at that time, a neighbor lady preached to me that God is who made everything. I told her I don't know who made me, she then laughed, and said "now you know who made you". ...

 

[Jollybear]

I remember when I used to be a Christian, one day while sitting there, I suddenly realized that these are just people in a room talking about their beliefs and singing songs. There was nothing special nor unique to show for it all that would set Christians and Christianity for that matter apart from anybody else out there.

You just walk into the room discuss and / or sing the topic at hand and walk out of the room when it concludes with nothing more better or worse to show for it in comparison with anybody else. The world along with the universe just continues on as it always has.

I remember when I used to be a non christian, one day while sitting there, I suddenly realized that these are just people in a room talking about their non beliefs and going to secular concerts. There was nothing special nor unique to show for it all that would set non Christians and non Christianity for that matter apart from anybody else out there.

You just walk into the room discuss and / or sing along at a concert the topic at hand and walk out of the room when it concludes with nothing more better or worse to show for it in comparison with anybody else. The world along with the universe just continues on as it always has.

Your point?

 

[osgart]

Im an atheist with christian indoctrination running through my veins because i was raised in christian religions. Its very hard to not let it affect me somehow. The pressure of heaven, hell, and enemy, friend relationships within my own family was not good, and very costly.

I have spiritual intuitions, but know for a fact there is no God.

Its amazing all the things attached with atheism. Naturalism is a very, very, very foreign language to me, and it seems they go to great lengths to deny intelligence as a cause in nature.

I fall to spiritual naturalism. My convictions lay therein that. I am convicted that intelligence naturally flows through all of nature. So i can see there being many kinds of intelligences that work in nature.

So there are zealous naturalists, and zealous theists. They feel the need to save mankind from the errors of their ways.

There is only so much time in a life, and feeling the pressures of conformity from any group is totally stifling to me. Life has got great mysteries to it, and i am in awe and wonder at the miracle of life without want of conforming to everybody's answers to the Big Questions of existence.

 

[Jumi]

I'll only answer the AAI part.

If you were born to a devout Hindu family in Mumbai India, or to a pious Christian family in Atlanta Georgia, would you be a convinced Muslim today? Of course, you cannot answer that question for certain but, statistically there is an extremely high probability that you would be a Hindu or a Christian and you would believe Muslims have got almost everything wrong.

Hindus and Christians can ask themselves a similar question and they will get a similar result.

It gets more interesting when you're an atheist for decades and then turn theist which is unlike the religions near you.

The hard truth is, you are not certain your faith is true because you have determined it is true through evidence and reason; you are certain it is true because you have been TRAINED to believe it is true, and to behave as though it is true.

It only really applies to those who believe things because they have been trained to.

The hardest truth of all is, with respect to your faith, you have more in common with a performing dog than with a rational, intelligent human being.

Sounds like an insult that doesn't serve any purpose. This comes from a rational, human standpoint? Nope.

It's annoy a Theist week, or, o

n the road to becoming a militant atheist.

I think it would have annoyed me even when I was an atheist to read the Atheist Alliance quote, or rather embarrassed and bored.

So the idea is that you believe because you were train to believe. Can you convince yourself or someone else otherwise?

In my case it's complete garbage since I don't follow theism because of anything I was taught. Does the Atheist Alliance believe because someone told them to? If you see two of them saying the same thing you just need to establish a rule and check it against the crowd of them.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The world along with the universe just continues on as it always has.

The ultimate fate of all of us and our works. Bill Gates changed the world, but that sentiment will apply when he dies and when Windows eventually ceases to exist. We remember Julius Caesar, but only as long as there are humans to remember him. A few plays are debated if Shakespeare wrote them, because it's happened to him extensively, and some older texts we don't really know if the author is who the book is credited to or if it was written by multiple people. Even though their work has lived on, the world moved on and time turned the author into a vague and faceless name of little real substance.
Is anything worth doing then?

 

[sun rise]

It's certainly true for the majority as the OP states that people's beliefs are most often determined by how they were brought up, what the society expects and in some cases mandates.

But it's not the case for everyone. My parents were atheists but did not speak much about it. It came out in action like not performing any rituals, not going to Shul unless there was a special event such as a wedding and so forth.

So in my youth I found religion not important enough to even think about. It was something other people did. In that sense, I was no different in essence for those who were religious because their parents were religious, aka the "performing dog" of the OP. I was unquestioningly following how I had been raised.

At some point I started questioning atheism and found myself drawn to a belief in God. This did not involve flipping over to swallowing scriptures whole and mindlessly performing rituals but in what is called the mystical path.

 

[sayak83]

If you were born to a devout Hindu family in Mumbai India, or to a pious Christian family in Atlanta Georgia, would you be a convinced Muslim today? Of course, you cannot answer that question for certain but, statistically there is an extremely high probability that you would be a Hindu or a Christian and you would believe Muslims have got almost everything wrong.

Hindus and Christians can ask themselves a similar question and they will get a similar result.

The hard truth is, you are not certain your faith is true because you have determined it is true through evidence and reason; you are certain it is true because you have been TRAINED to believe it is true, and to behave as though it is true.

The hardest truth of all is, with respect to your faith, you have more in common with a performing dog than with a rational, intelligent human being.
The hardest truth of all - Atheist Alliance International

It's annoy a Theist week, or, on the road to becoming a militant atheist.

So the idea is that you believe because you were train to believe. Can you convince yourself or someone else otherwise?

As a kid many get trained to think in terms of a God. Even if raised as an atheist it's hard to escape being taught what God is, even as someone else's belief.

So you convert from one religion to another, still thinking in terms of God. Or maybe as a atheist convert to some belief, thinking in terms of a God you were taught not to believe in.

I'm not saying atheists don't have their own issues with being trained in how to think. but, does the belief in God persist because it's is how we were trained to think?

Why would I want to change something I am comfortable with unless somebody provides a good reason to do so?
Since you brought in Hinduism, can you provide a set of good reasons for me to change in some other view from Hinduism?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

does the belief in God persist because it's is how we were trained to think?

Yes. And I think that's an obvious "yes".

I like Ricky Gervais' take on this (paraphrasing):

Imagine that for some reason overnight, all knowledge disappears - scientific knowledge as well as religious knowledge, including all references to it. We'ld wake up as "blank slate" humans with only instinctive knowledge and nothing else. So we'ld have to repeat history all over again.
Surely new religions will get invented, as that is clearly human nature as demonstrated by the thousands of mutually exlusive religions out there - 99% of wich is necessarily false. Here's the thing: christianity, islam, hinduism, etc.... NONE of that will ever see the light of day again. None of that lore will ever come back. It's over. Brand new and different religions will be invented.
But not so for science. All the same facts will eventually surface. We'll once again figure out gravity, plate tectonics, germs, evolution, atoms, etc etc etc. We might have different approaches, or new kinds of math to describe these things, but it's the exact same knowledge and the exact same explanations that will be re-discovered.

 

[stvdv]

The hard truth is, you are not certain your faith is true because you have determined it is true through evidence and reason; you are certain it is true because you have been TRAINED to believe it is true, and to behave as though it is true.

The hardest truth of all is, with respect to your faith, you have more in common with a performing dog than with a rational, intelligent human being.

Theists are not sure that faith is true
Atheists are not sure that faith is untrue

That's why it's called belief, not truth

I was brought up in Christian family. My mother could not belief it is possible that a person who does not belief in Jesus could be happy.

I went to India and met my Master and I like the "Sanatana Dharma" way better than Christian Faith now. So it's possible to believe different than what you were taught. And I do see quite a few difference in humans as compared to dogs. Although I do see that many people have quite a few animal qualities they exhibit. The difference between animal and human to me is quite obvious.

I do not believe any Faith is the Truth. And for me it is not important either. Truth is relative to me. Some claim that 1+1=2, but in binary counting that is not the case. Even gravity is relative. All of creation is relative in my opinion. Seeking Absolute Truth in the relative world seems silly to me.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I'm not saying atheists don't have their own issues with being trained in how to think. but, does the belief in God persist because it's is how we were trained to think?

I was raised Roman Catholic, and yes, one has to overcome a conditioning, which was, for me, mostly in the form of fear when walking away from the Trinity.

When I first began to revere gods other than those I was raised to worship, there was, indeed, a sense of, "Is my making such a decision potentially condemning myself to an eternity in Hell?" So while logically, I knew I was making the right choice, there was a period of concern over making that choice, specifically stemming from Exodus 20:3, that I imagine others might not overcome, which would inexorably lead them back to the religion with which they were raised.

 

[leroy]

Ohhhh so you are an atheist because of science and reason?

What scientific evidence or line of reasoning convinced you that atheism is true? @Nakosis

BTW
The reason why I believe that the heliocentric model is true is because I was born in the 20th century.... If I would have been born in the 1400s I would probably have been a geocentricist. .... But I am sure you would not accept this argument to support geocentricism.

 

[Augustus]

Does the Atheist Alliance believe because someone told them to? If you see two of them saying the same thing you just need to establish a rule and check it against the crowd of them.

The kind of people who belong to atheist societies tend to be among the most predictably conformist in their beliefs of any group on earth.

 

[syo]

So the idea is that you believe because you were train to believe.

no

 

[shunyadragon]

The Baha'i Faith does not believe in the hard 'Truth' of any one belief system including the Baha'i Faith.

 

[SalixIncendium]

So the idea is that you believe because you were train to believe. Can you convince yourself or someone else otherwise?

I realized after I replied that I didn't address this question.

Can I convince myself? Well, I'm not sure if 'convince' is the correct word, but my worldview changed as I acquired knowledge and understanding through logic, reasoning, and experience.

I have no interest in convincing someone else of anything as it pertains to religious and/or spiritual matters. For what reason would one want to aside from satiating one's own ego?