Does God have control over the future of our souls and the universe? If yes, is our freewill not redundant if it is going to go according to God’s plan anyway? If no, does that mean there is a chance God’s will might not be done?
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Theists who believe in freewill?
- Thread starter The Sum of Awe
- Start date
Freewill is granted. God knows what our choices are. The plan works with our choices included.
That is why God continually warns us of the consequences of our actions.
Regards Tony
No, He doesn't have control over the future.
There are 8 billion free wills... God cannot control them.
There are 8 billion free wills... God cannot control them.
So, we'll assume that God being omniscient, God knows all possible futures.
Freewill means God allows humans to choose between good and evil.
This would mean we are free to choose, as granted by God, which of those possible futures will come to be.
So God is all knowing except God has allow humans to which future will exist.
If it is God's will that humans choose the future then whatever we choose is according to God's will.
Hermit Philosopher
Selflessly here for you
I think that the introduction of algorithms as standard to the processing of web-based data and a wider understanding by the public of what this means, gives us a new and improved way of approaching the never-ending question of about the concept of free will vs. that of determinism.
If physical existence were to run by “code”, to learn from accumulated data and evolve accordingly, then the emergence of “free will” -as in decision making/agency/choice- would be its inevitable outcome.
Note: I’m not literally suggesting that we exist in a simulation, but using an familiar, modern human concept to speak of a spiritual one.
Humbly,
Hermit
PureX
Veteran Member
What God does or does not do is irrelevant to us when we have no idea what that outcome will be. We still have to make our choices and take our chances.
According to my beliefs, he can exercise control but mostly doesn't
He doesn't have to exercise total control for his will to be done
We can have authentic free-will in a universe in which God's will will be done, the two don't cancel each other out
I don't believe that God has control over our individual souls. The ultimate direction of the universe, yes. The individual dots in between, no.
Is there no way that our choices could stray from what God has planned? If not, how is it freewill? Is it truly free if our choices all lead to the same outcome?
It would seem that God has no objectives in creating this universe, then? Other than watching us choose?
RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
I believe there is God's will, and there is our will. And that the only true freedom we can ever know, comes when we align our will to God's. Because only then, are we liberated from the tyranny of our own desires.
What makes you say that it’s an inevitable outcome?
I agree with this for a beneficial existential philosophy, but ontological curiosities are still worthy of attention.
I like this model very much.
Hermit Philosopher
Selflessly here for you
Something that is programmed to learn and evolve from the data it accumulates and processes, will do just that.
The more data it accumulates, the more complex its processings become. At every stage, it’s learning which variables to include in which circumstances. It selects what is of relevance to include in a particular context, based on what has been processed as relevant in similar contexts over time.
So far, these selections/choices are determined by the processing of accumulated data.
But it is not unthinkable that as the complexity of what is processed and accumulated increases, an ability to deviate from code may also arise.
In humans, this may be equivalent to the accumulation of conscience (in addition to reg. consciousness and self-consciousness) - an ethical aspect to agency.
Humbly,
Hermit
The Kilted Heathen
Crow FreyjasmaðR
Nope. Even the gods are subject to the threads of fate. No, this doesn't invalidate free will either.
It’s understandable why you would think that, but I find it just as likely that this process was set out by the designer, we are determined what data we accumulate and process. I’ve had very little say, for example, in what lessons life has taught me. It seems life chooses its own lessons for each “program”.
RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
Well, I always assumed entertainment.
Entertainment is certainly one probable outcome of the creative impulse.
That explains the clown wig in my closet.Well, I always assumed entertainment.
On a more serious note, I too think God made us in some shape or form of entertainment or art. But I believe in every art there is a proverb.