Theists who do not believe in an afterlife?

[Saint Frankenstein]

I think most of that comes from the book of Enoch actually.

I haven't read that so I can't comment on it.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

I haven't read that so I can't comment on it.

Quite a bit of people haven't...but the ideas of fallen angels, the rebellion in heaven (not the name lucifer though), a lot of it from what I can tell stems from the book of Enoch.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Quite a bit of people haven't...but the ideas of fallen angels, the rebellion in heaven (not the name lucifer though), a lot of it from what I can tell stems from the book of Enoch.

Lucifer really doesn't have anything to do with Satan. No one knows what Satan's angelic name was.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Lucifer really doesn't have anything to do with Satan. No one knows what Satan's angelic name was.

Yeah I know, people tend to confuse the two quite a bit.

But I think when people are talking about the fallen angel they are talking about Sameal.

Samael - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But in most cases there are no such things as Fallen Angels, though the story of Noah speaks about the union of the Sons of God and Mortal Women--it makes more sense what it is referring to in the writings of Enoch (though it's not considered Canon)

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yeah I know, people tend to confuse the two quite a bit.

But I think when people are talking about the fallen angel they are talking about Sameal.

Samael - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But in most cases there are no such things as Fallen Angels, though the story of Noah speaks about the union of the Sons of God and Mortal Women--it makes more sense what it is referring to in the writings of Enoch (though it's not considered Canon)

Yeah, there are various possible names for Satan from Jewish angelology.

I didn't know the Book of Enoch talked about the fall of the angels. I always hear about how it talks about them having sex with human women, though.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Yeah, there are various possible names for Satan from Jewish angelology.

I didn't know the Book of Enoch talked about the fall of the angels. I always hear about how it talks about them having sex with human women, though.

I believe it goes into details, I'll have to look it up, cause it's been awhile since I've taken a look at it. Though you can see where certain phrases in the Bible come from, that seem to have the way more left field mystical elements to them, that aren't always evident.

 

[George-ananda]

Share your thoughts on this

My thoughts on this is that the OP has it all reversed.

OP Theist: Matter is primary and consciousness is a product of matter.

Most Theists: Consciousness is primary and matter is a product of consciousness.

So the difference couldn't be more basic. My beliefs are that Consciousness is all One and we are in the process of growing to learn that. In creation Krishna says: "I separated Myself from Myself and became all this". It is all a divine drama/play/sport.

 

[Riverwolf]

Meaningless, In the grand scheme of things.
And truly, I am not the only Christian who thinks this.
Read Ecclesiastes.
The whole book is practically about the meaninglessness of life.

It has nothing to do with ego.
My belief is that life has no meaning without the Afterlife.
It's as simple as that.
That does not mean I value the Afterlife more than I value God.

Ecclesiastes is a book probably written by a jaded old cynic. I don't use it as a basis for whether life has meaning or not.

The "Grand Scheme of Things" is a level that the Gods are meant to think on; our brains are not wired for such thinking. I prefer to think of meaning of human life in terms of human life; there's no possible way for us to entirely comprehend the Grand Scheme of Things, anyway.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I have no belief in an afterlife, much less in the theological mechanics of reward and punishment.

Would you say that many religious Jews would share your sentiment? Just curious JS, seems the Jewish belief in the afterlife is varied and inconsistent. I know Judaism emphasizes what happens in this life, the afterlife seems like it was a strange appendage that some Jews came to believe and graft on after the Babylonian captivity. Can you clear this up for me(us)?

Many Jews would agree with me an many would not. As for the rest, I suggest you read ...

​

 

[RabbiO]

Many Jews would agree with me an many would not. As for the rest, I suggest you read ........

Interesting that both Rabbi Gillman and Rabbi Eugene Borowitz opt for a belief in resurrection.

Might I also suggest Simcha Paull Raphael's book Jewish Views of the Afterlife?

Peter

 

[LuisDantas]

What my thought was, Is that everything that happens under the sun is eventually rendered meaningless. So if there is no life after death, Then what is the point to anything in life?

Does anything need to be eternal to be worthwhile?

I don't think so.

 

[Twilight Hue]

If you believe in God, But not the afterlife, Then what is the point to life to you?

I don't know, It doesn't really make sense to me.

It's only thoughts. Life erupts making the phenomena itself the point.

 

[wildcat]

Wanted to chime in on the topic.. I'm a polytheist, and I don't believe in an afterlife. I don't rule out the possibility that consciousness can exist in a different way, unattached to a physical body. I think consciousness is a unique concept that we don't fully understand. But in the case of humans, all the evidence seems to suggest that our consciousness is directly tied with our brain. I don't "rule out" an afterlife, and I'm sure it would be a nice surprise if there turned out to be one, but I don't believe there is.

I find comfort in the fact that our matter and energy will live on and contribute to future life on this planet. Us being "fertilizer" as an earlier poster referred to it as, is not a bad thing in my mind, it is part of the natural cycle. Our existence is provided by nature's "fertilizer from past transformed energy". I don't believe that life is meaningless without an afterlife. I could never relate to someone who defines the meaning of their life on the existence of an afterlife. I find that type of belief cheapens this wonderful and beautiful life we have right here.

As far as I can tell, the meaning of life is simply for life to exist. That's as far as I can see from observation. It's simple, mysterious and perfectly acceptable to me if there is no further purpose. The sun burns because it's in it's nature to burn. Life lives because it's in it's nature to live. It does what it does. My personal view of life is that we each have our own turn at a conscious experience of the universe. Since we are sentient beings, our purpose is to experience as much as we can and enjoy this universe before our turn is over, and we must feed back into the life cycle. I find this very meaningful and beautiful.

Why do believers in an afterlife need an afterlife to appreciate life? Personally, the fact that life is limited, is what makes this life meaningful and precious. It makes me appreciate each flower, each experience, every feeling (both positive and negative, I find meaning in negative emotions as well, it builds the foundation of who I am). If I was certain of an afterlife, I wouldn't be paying attention to every aspect that the Universe has to offer me. And if, by chance, there is no afterlife, I would have wasted my time here not paying attention. (I'm not saying believers in an afterlife think or behave like this, but I can see this as an unfortunate consequence of focusing too much on an afterlife rather this life). The idea that this life is meaningless without an afterlife is just sad. Is experiencing love and joy and everything this life has to offer not enough? Just because it must end, does that render experience pointless? I can't relate to that type of thinking whatsoever, and I find it rather... immature (no offense). Life is only worth it if you must live forever in eternity? I think life can be more enjoyable if people thought deeper about this life and how important it is, even if it is temporary. It's possible that the only "purpose" (I don't think the Universe has an objective purpose) of life is simply to live. I'm good with that, it's quite poetic, actually.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

... Paull Raphael's book Jewish Views of the Afterlife?

From the editorial review ..

Jewish Views of the Afterlife introduces readers to previously inaccessible parts of the Jewish tradition. As Dr. Simcha Raphael mines the riches of afterlife visions, he offers new vistas of hope and comfort in confronting death and dying. This new edition’s practical guidance for integrating these insights into spiritual care with dying and grieving individuals and families is invaluable. (Rabbi Dayle A. Friedman, author, Jewish Visions for Aging: A Professional Guide for Fostering Wholeness )

 

[StarryNightshade]

I believe in God, and I'm overall agnostic on the notion of an afterlife. My general thing is: if there is an afterlife, then great. If there isn't an afterlife, then I'm not going to know either way. So why worry about it?

I'm much more concerned with how I live my life now, rather than worry about an afterlife which my or may not exist.

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

I must admit, I am one of these...but it depends on which way my tendencies take me...towards Monotheism or towards Absolute Monism.

It's not that I don't 'believe' in an afterlife...I mean there could be one, but it's something I don't even think about much, really.

I don't/can't fully and blindly accept Reincarnation, Heaven/Hell, Karma and all of that. Sometimes it seems like people are using the 'end' to justify the means of 'reaching it'.

I believe in a soul and I don't know what happens to it after we die. Maybe it dies with us? I honestly don't know.

For you see, the Hindu notion of Soul (Atma) is without any form of 'self-awareness' existing of and within itself, it is pure energy, pure consciousness...so, for me to think the eternal soul has a 'body' and even a 'body that can experience pain/pleasure' is a 'leap of faith' that I just cannot take....knowing what I know now.

I figured that if I pray to God and worship Him in this lifetime, whatever happens after that will be by His grace, but the main thing is to love and worship God and to forget about what may or may not be. He will take care of it.

If you believe in God, But not the afterlife, Then what is the point to life to you?

To believe in God.

 

[Kemble]

Thana,

Think of it differently:

What is the point of your life--that is to say its rich details--now, besides collecting the browny points, if you eventually reach heaven, a completely different experience for an endless time, where at best this life is a mere memory and at worst you will never really remember it?

Personally, for what it's worth, I do think the NDE phenomenon shows something surviving beyond biological processes. What that means in terms of afterlives and religions is up for interpretation.

 

[Tarheeler]

I don't believe in an afterlife. While I do believe in the existence of a soul, I see it as the Divine spark that is in all of us rather than some cosmic copy of us that lives on after we die.

 

[George-ananda]

I believe in God, and I'm overall agnostic on the notion of an afterlife.

StarryNightshade (and like thinkers); For those who believe in a God and no afterlife (continuation), what is your thinking on why God would create things like early childhood deaths and deformities and a million other bad things? What is the nature of this God you believe in? Why (or does?) he matter to us?

 

[Richard Krause]

Am I the only person who accepts the existence of a god yet does not believe in the existence of an afterlife or spiritual state without physical existence?

Almost all religions or theological disposition hold that there is an afterlife and an immortal soul which lives on past the body, I myself do not accept this and associate the soul and spirit as the consciousness that arises through physicality. In other words, there is no such thing as a floating entity called the soul. The soul cannot exist without a body, in layman's terminology the soul/spirit is our brain.

No conscious awareness can be brought about by something that is not even rooted to a reality of some sort. Nonexistence is literally not existing and consciousness cannot arise from something not rooted in an existence of any sort. So the concept of an afterlife will be no fundamentally different than the way of life as we have now since one will still require a physical medium to experience sentience.

So the only plausible existence of an afterlife I could possibly see existing is an afterlife with physical existence. The often thought of afterlife where souls exist alone in a spiritual state is utterly nonsensical and has no way to validate its existence other than imaginary thinking. Dharmic religions and their concept of samsara bypass this of course which makes reincarnation a plausible result of a person after death but considering the dismantlement of the reliant factor which promotes or consciousness(the brain) there is no reason to assume that whatever could come after our death is even ourselves.

Share your thoughts on this

Am I the only person who accepts the existence of a god yet does not believe in the existence of an afterlife or spiritual state without physical existence?

Almost all religions or theological disposition hold that there is an afterlife and an immortal soul which lives on past the body, I myself do not accept this and associate the soul and spirit as the consciousness that arises through physicality. In other words, there is no such thing as a floating entity called the soul. The soul cannot exist without a body, in layman's terminology the soul/spirit is our brain.

No conscious awareness can be brought about by something that is not even rooted to a reality of some sort. Nonexistence is literally not existing and consciousness cannot arise from something not rooted in an existence of any sort. So the concept of an afterlife will be no fundamentally different than the way of life as we have now since one will still require a physical medium to experience sentience.

So the only plausible existence of an afterlife I could possibly see existing is an afterlife with physical existence. The often thought of afterlife where souls exist alone in a spiritual state is utterly nonsensical and has no way to validate its existence other than imaginary thinking. Dharmic religions and their concept of samsara bypass this of course which makes reincarnation a plausible result of a person after death but considering the dismantlement of the reliant factor which promotes or consciousness(the brain) there is no reason to assume that whatever could come after our death is even ourselves.

Share your thoughts on this

Hello Sha'irullah,
I hope you are still taking a look at the thread you started back on Nov 25, 2013.

I was REALLY glad to read your original post, and especially "Am I the only person who accepts the existence of a God yet does not believe in the existence of an afterlife". That is EXACTLY where I am at at this time.

I personally believe there is a God. There are just too many innumerable issues from the beginning of the Universe to our life on plant Earth for all to be just coincidence. More can be discussed later.

I also personally believe there is noi afterlife. I don't believe in miracles, the virgin birth or the "stories" in the Old Testament. Again, we can discuss this in more detail later.

Yes, I look forward to your response and that of others who share our mutual thoughts.

Richard


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