Theory....again

[idav]

Spirit is not tangible?....
is not the same as to make complete denial.

Care to go all the way?

What is spirit compared to an atom or boson? It needs to be detectable to exist, even if you insist the source is another realm, there should be evidence. Where does spirit fit in the standard model?

 

[McBell]

What is spirit compared to an atom or boson? It needs to be detectable to exist, even if you insist the source is another realm, there should be evidence. Where does spirit fit in the standard model?

pssst...
You see that teeny tiny itsy bitsy gap over there..?

 

[Runewolf1973]

If there is such thing as “spirit” underlying everything, then it can be nothing other than a form of interaction…which is fundamental. In order for something to be part of this universe means it must interact in some way with this universe. I propose that what can be called “spirit” is none other than the natural forces (fundamental interactions) behind all we know to exist, not something supernatural. Those fundamental forces…gravity, electromagnetic, strong nuclear, and weak nuclear, quite literally “animate” everything that exists in our universe. Those fundamental forces ARE the "spirit" of the universe.

 

[AlphaAlex115]

If there is such thing as “spirit” underlying everything, then it can be nothing other than a form of interaction…which is fundamental. In order for something to be part of this universe means it must interact in some way with this universe. I propose that what can be called “spirit” is none other than the natural forces (fundamental interactions) behind all we know to exist, not something supernatural. Those fundamental forces…gravity, electromagnetic, strong nuclear, and weak nuclear, quite literally “animate” everything that exists in our universe. Those fundamental forces ARE the "spirit" of the universe.

But we're talking about human spirits, not physics lolll.. anyway the spirit does not exist because theres no evidence that it does..

 

[idav]

pssst...
You see that teeny tiny itsy bitsy gap over there..?

An undetectable, non-influencing therefore non-existent type of gap. Dern that outside of the universe always messing with us without any influence, remarkable.

 

[Runewolf1973]

But we're talking about human spirits, not physics lolll.. anyway the spirit does not exist because theres no evidence that it does..

We can reasonably discuss this from a physics standpoint because everything ultimately boils down to physics, not the supernatural. From a purely physical perspective, those forces or fundamental interactions ARE that “spirit”, that animates our bodies and this universe in a completely natural way. There are no supernatural spirits, only naturally existing forces.

 

[AlphaAlex115]

Spirits and forces are two completely separate things.. do not pretend otherwise. .

 

[Runewolf1973]

Spirits and forces are two completely separate things.. do not pretend otherwise. .

Who’s pretending? I am giving you nothing but facts. The fundamental forces ARE your spirit. They are that which causes your body to appear “alive” and “animate”. Those forces are what give you this thing called life. Even when you are dead, those forces do not stop, they do not cease. Your body is not animated by some kind of magical spirit that persists after you are dead it IS animated by a natural spirit/force/forces that persists after you are dead.

 

[AlphaAlex115]

Who’s pretending? I am giving you nothing but facts. The fundamental forces ARE your spirit. They are that which causes your body to appear “alive” and “animate”. Those forces are what give you this thing called life. Even when you are dead, those forces do not stop, they do not cease. Your body is not animated by some kind of magical spirit that persists after you are dead it IS animated by a natural spirit/force/forces that persists after you are dead.

Facts require good backed up evidence. . Forces are not spirits

 

[Runewolf1973]

Facts require good backed up evidence. . Forces are not spirits

Are you actually going to read what I have written this time? It seems you prefer to make assumptions about my position without even really understanding what my position is.

Forces are definitely not magical spirits and I never said they were. However, if we use the term “spirit” in a metaphorical sense, we can most definitely use it to describe those naturally existing forces. To me those fundamental forces are the “spirit” which animates us. Those forces are the breath of life. It is also a fact that those fundamental forces (which in a metaphorical sense I call “spirit&#8221 continue to exist after death. Do you understand what it means when a person uses a term metaphorically?




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[idav]

Are you actually going to read what I have written this time? It seems you prefer to make assumptions about my position without even really understanding what my position is.

Forces are definitely not magical spirits and I never said they were. However, if we use the term “spirit” in a metaphorical sense, we can most definitely use it to describe those naturally existing forces. To me those fundamental forces are the “spirit” which animates us. Those forces are the breath of life. It is also a fact that those fundamental forces (which in a metaphorical sense I call “spirit”) continue to exist after death. Do you understand what it means when someone is talking metaphorically?

Metaphorically I consider spirit akin to "breath of life". Not everything has that extra something, not everything shows even a hint of volition.

 

[AlphaAlex115]

Are you actually going to read what I have written this time? It seems you prefer to make assumptions about my position without even really understanding what my position is.

Forces are definitely not magical spirits and I never said they were. However, if we use the term “spirit” in a metaphorical sense, we can most definitely use it to describe those naturally existing forces. To me those fundamental forces are the “spirit” which animates us. Those forces are the breath of life. It is also a fact that those fundamental forces (which in a metaphorical sense I call “spirit”) continue to exist after death. Do you understand what it means when a person uses a term metaphorically?




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So what you're saying is that natural forces are a metaphor for what our souls could be like? I see but dont agree.. souls and forces cannot be compared

 

[Runewolf1973]

So what you're saying is that natural forces are a metaphor for what our souls could be like? I see but dont agree.. souls and forces cannot be compared

No, I'm saying that the closest naturally existing thing there is that could be called or compared to "spirit" are those forces of nature. There are no spirits in a literal sense, magical spirits don't exist, but there is that which could be called "spirit" in a metaphorical sense.

 

[AlphaAlex115]

No, I'm saying that the closest naturally existing thing there is that could be called or compared to "spirit" are those forces of nature. There are no spirits in a literal sense, magical spirits don't exist, but there is that which could be called "spirit" in a metaphorical sense.

Magical spirits? Tell me do you believe in things like fairies to believe in magical spirits.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Metaphorically I consider spirit akin to "breath of life". Not everything has that extra something, not everything shows even a hint of volition.

That is reasonable way to look at it. I see it from a more fundamental perspective however. What IS the "breath of life"? Literally, it is those forces at work in our bodies, those interactions.

 

[idav]

That is reasonable way to look at it. I see it from a more fundamental perspective however. What IS the "breath of life"? Literally, it is those forces at work in our bodies, those interactions.

In a fundamental sense it is the potential for intelligence, which apparently nature does have. Forces are more aspects of what exists, the "will" of what exists so I can see where your coming from. Nothing like the will that life has.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Magical spirits? Tell me do you believe in things like fairies to believe in magical spirits.

I have no reason to believe in such things. However, I know there are definitely some unknowns to science, so it would be illogical of me to assume it is impossible for them to exist. If they do exist, then they are natural, not supernatural.

 

[Runewolf1973]

In a fundamental sense it is the potential for intelligence, which apparently nature does have. Forces are more aspects of what exists, the "will" of what exists so I can see where your coming from. Nothing like the will that life has.

Indeed. I see it as interaction, or the ability to interact. Everything interacts in some way and that fundamental interaction leads to more complex interactions including that potential for intelligence.


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[Runewolf1973]

Even that volition or "will" which we have can be seen as form of interaction. It is undoubtedly a complex and evolved form of interaction, but interaction nonetheless. A rock may not have volition or a sense of self, but a rock still interacts with its environment on a fundamental level. That is the starting point. It all started somewhere. I believe it all started with those fundamental interactions and from there, over time and through the process of evolution, those interactions became more and more complex. Human life and consciousness may be the highest forms of interaction to date. However, there may be even more complex forms of interaction out there...forms that may even be looking out at us through the cosmos in much the same way that we humans look for life on other planets.




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[Thief]

Which one of the definitions given here do you cling to:

Spirit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

Or do you have your own "special" definition?

Were you about to make a statement of disbelief?