Theory in Crisis

[Darkstorn]

Obviously. Although man cannot flap his arms and fly like a bird, you believe somehow his thinking ability and ability to manufacture weapons, nuclear power plants, make and use microscopes, etc., is a result of genetic evolution from those that do not have that ability. As of yet.

Modern humans have been around for a long time, certainly over 100,000 years, probably much more. The first human city was founded about 10,000 years ago. That's a long gap. We only invented space stations in the last 100 years.

Now, ask yourself: What technology did we have 100,000 years ago?

So yeah, definitely evolution made us like that. Back in the early days the only difference between humans and other great apes of the species homo was most likely our adaptability, and nothing more. Our increased thought power came gradually, and only reached its current heights, well, relatively "currently."

Neanderthals had bigger brains than humans.

 

[night912]

I think it was basically instinctive, such as animals bathing in water to cool off. That was implanted in their brains by God. If you find a history written by a monkey as to how they figured to grab millipedes, I might be interested in seeing it. I'd probably have to meet the monkey though and not just take someone else's word for it.

I'm talking about real life here, not some fairy tale. It's funny how your insult show how irrational you are. You would not watch documentary videos to learn about it, instead you prefer to learn from a fairy tale written by a monkey. Would it convince you more if there was a talking monkey in that book? You do believe in a book with a talking snake that happens to be wrong. Remember that monkeys did prove that what you believed was wrong. Humans aren't the only ones that look for solutions.

 

[Polymath257]

So far they have not built laboratories and spaceships. I suppose you might think that one day, if they felt the need to, they would.

And if you went back a mere 10,000 years, humans would not have had agriculture either. Go back 25,000 years and you are at the time of cave paintings.

Through the vast majority of human history, we have not had labs and spaceships. We have not had advanced medicine or even built buildings.

So, place yourself 25,000 years ago, when humans were already the same species as we are today, and ask yourself what the primary differences were between the humans then and the other great apes.

Maybe that will show how strange it is to point to the achievements of science to back up your religious position.

 

[tas8831]

No worries, there is not one iota of news that you can give me that is bad news, so give it your best shot

I live by the known fact that God doeth as God chooseth and marvel at the science that man is capable of as a result.

Regards Tony

See, thats the thing.

No bible miracle tales have even come close to scientific verification.

 

[tas8831]

Then detail the steps and the mechanisms utilized in the evolution of whales from a land-based mammal.

I've seen a lot of guesses, but nothing substantive even regarding the pressures behind such a move to a water environment.

And I asked for step-by-step processes detailing how natural selection or other mechanisms could build the bacterial flagellum...but 'no one seems to know.'

They just "know it happened"

Amazing how impervious you are to your psychological projection.

Still waiting for some non-plagiarized evidence for the transformation of silicates into lipids via Jehovah speak.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

See, thats the thing.

No bible miracle tales have even come close to scientific verification.

That's OK, science and medicine are still in their infancy, they will catch up on the power of the human spirit to transform, to heal.

At the same time superstition in faith will fade away and we will reach a unity where science and faith are used fro the good of all, to build an ever advancing civilisation.

Biblical miracle tales are telling more than a material story, it is a spiritual lesson they impart.

Regards Tony

 

[Subduction Zone]

That's OK, science and medicine are still in their infancy, they will catch up on the power of the human spirit to transform, to heal.

At the same time superstition in faith will fade away and we will reach a unity where science and faith are used fro the good of all, to build an ever advancing civilisation.

Biblical miracle tales are telling more than a material story, it is a spiritual lesson they impart.

Regards Tony

Or perhaps they will show that for the most part spiritual healing is just woo, as the evidence currently indicates.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Or perhaps they will show that for the most part spiritual healing is just woo, as the evidence currently indicates.

The placebo effect is well known.

"Fast facts on placebos

The placebo effect has been measured in thousands of medical experiments, and many doctors admit to regularly prescribing placebos.

Drug companies must show that their new drugs work better than a placebo before the drugs are approved.

Placebos have been shown to affect a range of health conditions.

The color of a tablet can alter the strength of its placebo effect, and larger pills induce a stronger effect than smaller pills..... "

Thus when one knows God can grant healing, if God so wills, then the placebo is strong. Combine it with some proven traditional and modern medicine, then one can be positive healing may result.

The science is also confirmed.

This is worth a look;

Tablet of Medicine

Regards Tony

 

[Subduction Zone]

The placebo effect is well known.

"Fast facts on placebos

The placebo effect has been measured in thousands of medical experiments, and many doctors admit to regularly prescribing placebos.

Drug companies must show that their new drugs work better than a placebo before the drugs are approved.

Placebos have been shown to affect a range of health conditions.

The color of a tablet can alter the strength of its placebo effect, and larger pills induce a stronger effect than smaller pills..... "

Thus when one knows God can grant healing, if God so wills, then the placebo is strong. Combine it with some proven traditional and modern medicine, then one can be positive healing may result.

The science is also confirmed.

This is worth a look;

Tablet of Medicine

Regards Tony

Yes, but the placebo effect is not spiritual.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes, but the placebo effect is not spiritual.

For many it is. Many have Faith that the placebo is strongest when one has Faith.

Regards Tony

 

[Subduction Zone]

For many it is. Many have Faith that the placebo is strongest when one has Faith.

Regards Tony

Faith or gullibility? It appears to be the latter.

 

[YoursTrue]

If there was clear evidence for a god of course I would believe. The problem is that such evidence appears to be lacking.

If there was clear evidence for a god of course I would believe. The problem is that such evidence appears to be lacking.

I understand. Interestingly, the Bible says that not everyone has the gift of faith. I learned a while ago that only God can give you this gift of faith. Certainly it is true in my case. I used to say I didn't believe in God. I must have been a true atheist, because I did not say God does not exist. I would say that I don't believe in God. Thinking he did not exist, but I didn't say it. Now I do not say that. That is my experience, and obviously when Paul was preaching to others about his experience, he was not always believed.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I understand. Interestingly, the Bible says that not everyone has the gift of faith. I learned a while ago that only God can give you this gift of faith. Certainly it is true in my case. I used to say I didn't believe in God. I must have been a true atheist, because I did not say God does not exist. I would say that I don't believe in God. Thinking he did not exist, but I didn't say it. Now I do not say that. That is my experience, and obviously when Paul was preaching to others about his experience, he was not always believed.

No, in this case faith is gullibility. One can have faith in any religious belief. And it is off topic anyway. The fact that you are the product of evolution does not refute God. It does not even refute the Christian God. It only refutes incorrect versions of God.

 

[Valjean]

The placebo effect is well known.

"Fast facts on placebos

The placebo effect has been measured in thousands of medical experiments, and many doctors admit to regularly prescribing placebos.

Drug companies must show that their new drugs work better than a placebo before the drugs are approved.

Placebos have been shown to affect a range of health conditions.

The color of a tablet can alter the strength of its placebo effect, and larger pills induce a stronger effect than smaller pills..... "

Thus when one knows God can grant healing, if God so wills, then the placebo is strong. Combine it with some proven traditional and modern medicine, then one can be positive healing may result.

The science is also confirmed.

This is worth a look;

Tablet of Medicine

Regards Tony

What does the placebo effect have to do with spiritual healing? The placebo effect is biochemestry, spiritual healing is magic.

 

[YoursTrue]

Modern humans have been around for a long time, certainly over 100,000 years, probably much more. The first human city was founded about 10,000 years ago. That's a long gap. We only invented space stations in the last 100 years.

Now, ask yourself: What technology did we have 100,000 years ago?

So yeah, definitely evolution made us like that. Back in the early days the only difference between humans and other great apes of the species homo was most likely our adaptability, and nothing more. Our increased thought power came gradually, and only reached its current heights, well, relatively "currently."

Neanderthals had bigger brains than humans.

No proof of "natural selection" there in genetic evolution micro or macro style.
Well, this headline caught my attention. See what you think. It does not say evolution is wrong. Just that there is an evolution in the understanding of evolution.
"An Evolution in the Understanding of Evolution – “Essentially, All Models Are Wrong”
An Evolution in the Understanding of Evolution – “Essentially, All Models Are Wrong”
(essentially all models are wrong.)

 

[YoursTrue]

No, in this case faith is gullibility. One can have faith in any religious belief. And it is off topic anyway. The fact that you are the product of evolution does not refute God. It does not even refute the Christian God. It only refutes incorrect versions of God.

You keep bringing up what you call a myth. I'm not sure what you consider incorrect versions, but that's a different discussion. In the meantime, I hope you will look at the article about research into proteins at the University of Virginia. An Evolution in the Understanding of Evolution – “Essentially, All Models Are Wrong”

 

[YoursTrue]

No, in this case faith is gullibility. One can have faith in any religious belief. And it is off topic anyway. The fact that you are the product of evolution does not refute God. It does not even refute the Christian God. It only refutes incorrect versions of God.

While you believe you can refute the Bible, it's obvious that evolutionists do not agree on many fundamental concepts. And, I still say, the proof really is not there. Meaning there are obviously similar genes and structures in animals, but there is no genetic proof showing the emergence from one form to another, such as fish to reptiles, or vice versa, whichever came first.

 

[Valjean]

For many it is. Many have Faith that the placebo is strongest when one has Faith.

Regards Tony

But its mechanism is still biochemical.

 

[Milton Platt]

“Darwin had nothing to support his theory… It is still a highly speculative hypothesis entirely without factual support and very far from that self evident axiom some would have us believe...One might have expected that a theory of such cardinal importance would have more than metaphysics and myth to offer”.
M.Denton (Molecular Biologist)1986 Theory in crisis p69

“...evolution has many dissidents, some with advanced scientific degrees, who deny that evolution is a fact and who insist that an intelligent Creator caused all living things to come into being in furtherance of a purpose.
Phillip E. Johnson Darwin on Trial p1

“Biologist indulge in unsubstantiated fantasies in denying what is obvious. Simple calculations wipe the idea of life originating spontaneously entirely out of court”.
C.Wickromasighe Evolution From Space 1983

“The results of the cumulative efforts of [biologist] to investigate life at the molecular level is a loud, clear , piercing cry of “Design!” The result is so unambiguous and so significant that it must be ranked as one of the greatest achievements in the history of science”. Darwin’s Black Box Michael J. Behe p232


Above are a few comments from scientist regarding the theory of evolution.
Often we hear of Evolutionist stating that evolution is not a theory but a scientific fact.

What do you think ?
Is evolution a proven fact, a theory or a construct to undermine belief in a creator ?

Please keep in mind that ubiquitous statements such as “everybody know it’s a fact” or “you have to be stupid not to believe in it...” are not convincing proof of evolution.

This has been debated exhaustively on this site already. Simply listing several scientists who work for creationist organizations and are paid to promote their agenda won't do it.
You must build your own hypothesis that takes into account around 200 years of evidence in several areas of scientific endeavor. And then you must test the predictions it makes.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You keep bringing up what you call a myth. I'm not sure what you consider incorrect versions, but that's a different discussion. In the meantime, I hope you will look at the article about research into proteins at the University of Virginia. An Evolution in the Understanding of Evolution – “Essentially, All Models Are Wrong”

You need to read more than just the headlines. That article points out that science gets more accurate as time goes on. It supports evolution and does not contradict it. They propose what could be a more accurate way to model evolution.