There are no eyewitness accounts of Jesus in the New Testament

[Brian2]

The clear and specific definition of "evidence" eliminates the possibility of considering personal testimony of the supernatural and the miraculous as evidence justifying claims.

Personal testimony eliminates the possibility for atheists to claim that the supernatural is not true.

The problem extends to the rejection of science based ancient mythical texts with miraculous and supernatural claims of the history of our physical existence, the earth and humanity. These ancient views are illogical and irrational to the extreme.

So do you believe that it is wrong that God created all things and gave life?

 

[blü 2]

"It is a fact" and "Carrier say so" are two significantly different claims.

I'd be hesitant to offer a view simply because Carrier said so, hence I'm sympathetic to the point you make.

To the best of my knowledge the matter was first raised by theologian Ted Weeden jr in 2003.

So it appears to me that Carrier is reporting on what Weeden found, including the 24 points of agreement between the two accounts, the difference being that Carrier's version is handily available on the net, simplifying reference.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

There is no "proof" of the authorship of the gospels but there is enough evidence in the New Testament and in the writings of the early church for that traditional authors and that the early church knew who they were.

... or that some in the early church thought they knew who they were.

1Tim 5:18 quotes Luke 10:7.

Thanks. BTW: see Lev 19:13.

 

[Brian2]

My point is that they're mental phenomena. They don't take place in the world external to the self.

Have you tested that hypothesis or not?

Science explores and describes reality and finds no spirits there. Simple as that.

Science does not say that the supernatural is not real. That is a leap of faith that atheists make................... despite evidence to the contrary. It is an example of scientism, which is a faith.

Then address your problem, which, as I said, is that the only manner in which supernatural entities are known to exist is as concepts, notions, things imagined in individual brains. They aren't found out there in reality. That's why there are no photographs, videos, interviews, no place in Linnaean taxonomy for them.

It is not my problem. I have faith that the supernatural is true.

To be credible, a prophesy would need to be a precise prediction, unambiguously stated and credibly recorded at the time of its making, which comes true in a clearly and credibly recorded manner so close to that predicted and so unlikely, that a supernatural explanation seems more credible than simply by chance, or by faking, or by devising. There are no real examples.

That is your problem not mine. I believe prophecies have happened. You believe the alternatives, things that you know are fictional, have been made up. Any one of them seem to be more probable to you than a supernatural prophecy, even when there is evidence that the prophecy was true.

We don't find names on the gospels till 200 CE or later. According to credible historians I've read, around that time the names were assigned by convention, not by knowledge.

That does not mean that the early church did not know who wrote the gospels.

Then your task should be easy ─ just lay on a satisfactory demonstration of the supernatural for them and me.

But that's always been the case, and yet nothing happens and nothing happens and nothing happens. It's not as if you'd lack an audience for your demonstration either. It would attract honest and impartial attention from seriously expert authorities.

What task? I cannot conjure up spirits doing things.
You repeat the same old tired unreasoning demands, knowing that there are no "seriously expert authorities" when it comes to the supernatural, but suggesting that there are.

 

[Brian2]

... or that some in the early church thought the knew who they were.

It is clear that the early church took the 4 gospels as reliable and authentic according to what they had been taught through preaching etc.
Yes it is not proof but there is enough evidence for me, even if not for you.

Thanks. BTW: see Lev 19:13.

Thanks but the quote is from what is in the gospel of Luke.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Thanks but the quote is from what is in the gospel of Luke.

Lev 19.13​

You shall not defraud your neighbor; you shall not steal; and you shall not keep for yourself the wages of a laborer until morning.​

​

Luke 10.7​

Remain in the same house, eating and drinking whatever they provide, for the laborer deserves to be paid. Do not move about from house to house.​

​

1 Tim 5.18​

for the scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain” and “The laborer deserves to be paid.”​

​

I agree. Thanks again.

 

[shunyadragon]

Personal testimony eliminates the possibility for atheists to claim that the supernatural is not true.

Supernatural claims are not evidence by definition regardless of belief today and in the history of humanity.

So do you believe that it is wrong that God created all things and gave life?

This is a religious belief not dependent on the claim of the witness of supernatural events, I believe rationally and logically by the evidence that God Created our existence and humanity naturally by the objective verifiable evidence. God does not Create contradictions in Nature.