There are no eyewitness accounts of Jesus in the New Testament

[Sgt. Pepper]

Of course science cannot detect spirits. Science can only detect that which can be seen and observed.
Science can only detect that which exists in the physical world. Spirits do not exist in this physical world so science cannot detect them.

I agree with you, Trailblazer. Personally, I value science and believe that it is essential and beneficial for learning about the physical world. However, I doubt that it will ever be able to explain anything metaphysical (deities, earthbound spirits, or anything else supernatural), just as I doubt that scientific research will ever be able to rationally explain or debunk the supernatural phenomena that I strongly believe occur in the physical world. Maybe science will catch on someday, but I doubt it. I say this because I believe that there are genuine supernatural phenomena that defy both scientific and religious explanations. Based on my years of experience as a spirit medium and seasoned paranormal investigator, I strongly believe in "seeing is believing" when it comes to skeptics acknowledging that there is something beyond what their physical eyes can see. I've seen this happen more times than I can count, both as a medium and paranormal investigator, as I've discussed in other posts, such as this one. On that note, I'd like to repost what I wrote on a similar topic.

I have shared many of my encounters with earthbound spirits on this forum, but honestly, I've barely scratched the surface of everything I've experienced with them during my lifetime. I have more stories than I could ever share on this forum. My first memorable interaction with a spirit happened when I was six years old, but I have vague memories of interacting with them when I was four and five. Some spirits would wave at me, and I happily waved back at them, prompting my parents or other relatives to ask me who I was waving at. I'm 51 now, so that's more than 45 years of personal interactions with spirits.

Post 1: What is Evidence?

Post 2: A Christian believes --------------------------------?

After undergoing two cranial CT scans and a psychiatric evaluation, as well as being thoroughly evaluted by two therapists and three psychologists, I am more than confident that what I've experienced with these spirits since I was a small child is real. Not to mention that many of my interactions with these spirits were confirmed by others who witnessed them, some of whom I've never met before or have seen again. I have 17 years of experience doing this.

 

[stvdv]

The New Testament was written by people who were not eye witnesses to Jesus.

Good to realize

There are no eyewitness accounts of Jesus in the New Testament. The four gospels were written and circulated anonymously and the traditional authorship was secondarily assigned towards the end of the second century CE.

200 year gap is quite significant, remembering our "chilren whispering in each other's ear sentences, which totally get messed up after a few minutes"

There is not a single first person claim to being an eye witness to Jesus' life.

That's why I am grateful to have first hand experiences with my Master, and why I stick to His Teachings, as long as they don't conflict with my conscience

Given what I said above, which is explained in the video below, what logical reason would anyone have to believe that the Gospels are an accurate depiction of the life of Jesus?

Not one logical reason to believe the Gospels are an accurate depiction of the life of Jesus

 

[stvdv]

Why should we believe that what these anonymous authors wrote about Jesus is true?

It's okay to believe it

It's not smart to claim it

 

[SkepticThinker]

Of course science cannot detect spirits. Science can only detect that which can be seen and observed.
Science can only detect that which exists in the physical world. Spirits do not exist in this physical world so science cannot detect them.

Then how on earth can anyone detect them??
How can anyone say "there is a supernatural world?"

 

[Subduction Zone]

Of course science cannot detect spirits. Science can only detect that which can be seen and observed.
Science can only detect that which exists in the physical world. Spirits do not exist in this physical world so science cannot detect them.

They may not exist in any world. We are physical beings so how could any humans detect them?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Then how on earth can anyone detect them??
How can anyone say "there is a supernatural world?"

Rats! No fair! Her question was on the previous page.

Actually it is a good sign when two independent people spot the same error.

 

[BrokenBread]

The New Testament was written by people who were not eye witnesses to Jesus.

? Why should we believe that what these anonymous authors wrote about Jesus is true?

So if not for asserting what the gospels say, what were Luke ,Matthew, John, Paul, Peter tortured and executed for asserting ?

 

[stvdv]

Of course science cannot detect spirits. Science can only detect that which can be seen and observed.
Science can only detect that which exists in the physical world. Spirits do not exist in this physical world so science cannot detect them.

TRUE, the key is to realize:
"We are Spiritual Beings with a physical body"

Quite easy to prove even. We say "my body", this clearly proves that we are not the body (we are not physical beings), and it indicates that we have a body

So, we only have to solve the questions:
1) Am I the body?
2) Am I the mind?
3) Who Am I?

 

[Trailblazer]

Then how on earth can anyone detect them??

Nobody can detect them on earth, since they are not on earth, unless they are earthbound spirits, in which case a psychic medium can sometimes detect them.

How can anyone say "there is a supernatural world?"

They shouldn't claim it exists since they cannot prove it, but they can believe it based upon scriptures and other evidence.

 

[Trailblazer]

They may not exist in any world. We are physical beings so how could any humans detect them?

They may or may not exist in any world, but since we are physical beings we cannot detect them unless we have psychic abilities.

 

[Subduction Zone]

They may or may not exist in any world, but since we are physical beings we cannot detect them unless we have psychic abilities.

I do not think anyone has those. Even those that claim to believe in psychic abilities do not seem to really believe in them. They will point to failed studies as support, but when it is explained how those studies failed and how they could be made legitimate they do not want any part of it.

 

[Trailblazer]

So if not for asserting what the gospels say, what were Luke ,Matthew, John, Paul, Peter tortured and executed for asserting ?

I really have no idea. How can we even know they they were tortured and executed if the gospels are unreliable?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Nobody can detect them on earth, since they are not on earth, unless they are earthbound spirits, in which case a psychic medium can sometimes detect them.

They shouldn't claim it exists since they cannot prove it, but they can believe it based upon scriptures and other evidence.

They may or may not exist in any world, but since we are physical beings we cannot detect them unless we have psychic abilities.

I would like to respond to your posts, but I can't right now while I'm on my phone.

Thank you for speaking up, by the way. I appreciate it.

 

[Feedmysheep]

The New Testament was written by people who were not eye witnesses to Jesus.

There are no eyewitness accounts of Jesus in the New Testament. The four gospels were written and circulated anonymously and the traditional authorship was secondarily assigned towards the end of the second century CE. There is not a single first person claim to being an eye witness to Jesus' life.

Given what I said above, which is explained in the video below, what logical reason would anyone have to believe that the Gospels are an accurate depiction of the life of Jesus? Why should we believe that what these anonymous authors wrote about Jesus is true?

That's not what I believe (no eyewitnesses to Jesus). I believe Peter claimed they did not follow cleverly devized myths but were eyewitnesses.

For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we became eyewitnesses of that One’s majesty. (2 Pet. 1:16)

I believe John's setting his personal eyewitness endorsement against the Docetists who thought Jesus was too good to be material.
John says he saw blood and water come out of His body.

But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately there came out blood and water.
And he who has seen this has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he says what is true, that you also may believe. (John 19:34,35)

It is interesting to me that some of the earliest Christian apologetics we find was not against opinions that He never lived.
Rather it was against Gnostic teachings which said Jesus Christ was too good to have been material. They said He must have been a phantasm.

I believe Paul's accounts recorded for us by his travelling companion Luke. Paul was eyewitness to the appearance to him personally of
Christ as a glorified resurrected Lord. His testimonials are in Acts 22, 26 and Luke's description in Acts 9.

I further believe that the Gospel of Matthew imo indicates Matthew was the author.
Jesus sent the apostles out in teams of two. Probably a more senior or experienced disciple was listed as first in the twosome.

Mark and Luke listed Matthew before Thomas (Mark 3:18; Luke 6:15), but Matthew the writer of the gospel bearing his name
, listed himself after Thomas, showing his humility.

I think this is an indication that the writer learned well from Christ to take the lower place in humility.

Matthew 10:2-4 -
And the names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; and James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; Simon the Cananaean, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed Him.

I also believe the Gospels are propoganda and there is such a thing as true propoganda.

 

[BrokenBread]

I really have no idea. How can we even know they were tortured and executed if the gospels are unreliable?

Solid, early sources
John is the only one asserted to have died of old age .

There are 3 men, named as apostles in the New Testament, for whom we have first century attestation of their death as martyrs
by extra-Biblical sources

• James the son of Joseph (Josephus, Antiquities 20.9.1)
• Peter (1 Clement 5)
• Paul (1 Clement 5)

If you consider that the Apostles were real people & being the faith's trailblazers I don't think it would be a stretch to believe most of them suffered similarly what tens of thousands of the early Christians suffered .

Roman coins contain several of the emperors who persecuted the Christinas (such as Nero, Domitian and Marcus Aurelius).
There were ten "General Persecutions" by the Romans as well as many local persecutions.
So, how many Christians did the Romans kill?

Different sources quote different figures. Some sources list the figures as high as nearly 100,000 up to 313 AD, with over 20,000 of them under Diocletian's Great Persecutions between 303-311 AD.

 

[Trailblazer]

I do not think anyone has those. Even those that claim to believe in psychic abilities do not seem to really believe in them.

Why would anyone claim to have psychic abilities if they did not really believe they had them?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Why would anyone claim to have psychic abilities if they did not really believe they had them?

I can answer your question while using my phone because I addressed a similar issue in this post.

What is Evidence?

I never spoke for others. I simply list simple facts. Which part of my speech made you think that I speak for others, please point it out. Thanks. Who knows how many pages back. Post the whole thing if you're curious.

www.religiousforums.com

 

[Subduction Zone]

Why would anyone claim to have psychic abilities if they did not really believe they had them?

People can easily delude themselves. We see it again and again and again. In my opinion if a person suffers cognitive dissonance when it comes to a belief they do not really believe it. Cognitive dissonance is mostly unconscious lying to oneself.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

@Trailblazer, I apologize for the delay in responding to your posts. I spent much of the day yesterday with some of my friends. Every month, we get together for lunch and talk about our recent investigations, while also showing each other our most recent digital photos, EVPs, and video from our individual investigations. After lunch, we go to a local cemetery to pay our respects to the spirits. We spend some time picking up trash, pulling weeds, and place flowers on the gravestones that don't have any. It was a nice way to show our respect. I've enjoyed visiting cemeteries since I was a child.

Nobody can detect them on earth, since they are not on earth, unless they are earthbound spirits, in which case a psychic medium can sometimes detect them.

They may or may not exist in any world, but since we are physical beings we cannot detect them unless we have psychic abilities.

Based on my understanding and experience, neither mediums nor anyone else alive can detect spirits that have crossed over into the spirit realm. But I strongly believe that mediums can detect and communicate with earthbound spirits. I also believe that people without psychic mediumship can detect earthbound spirits, either through an unexpected personal encounter (as I illustrated here) or by using ghost-hunting equipment (as I explained here).

They shouldn't claim it exists since they cannot prove it, but they can believe it based upon scriptures and other evidence.

I claim that spirits exist because I've encountered them since I was a small child. However, I don't just claim to believe in spirits without providing what I consider sufficient evidence to substantiate my beliefs. Having said that, I've long since resolved not to argue and debate with skeptics about my personal experiences with spirits or anything else I consider paranormal. This is because I have 45 years of firsthand experience with spirits; therefore, other people's skepticism doesn't invalidate my personal experiences. It doesn't change my belief in the paranormal either. So, I am simply not interested in convincing skeptics that paranormal phenomena are real, nor do I feel that it is my responsibility to convince them that my encounters with this phenomenon really happened. I never argue or debate with them, nor do I feel compelled to have them validate my spiritual beliefs or anything else I consider paranormal.

As in real life, I merely offer what I believe to be adequate proof and let the chips fall where they may. If they choose not to believe me, then that's okay with me. If they change their minds and believe me, that's okay with me too. As far as I'm concerned, it's entirely their decision whether to believe or not.

 

[Feedmysheep]

It's okay to believe it

It's not smart to claim it

There's more reason to believe the accounts of the Gospel than
the accounts of Alexander the Great or Socrates. Far less time elapsed between Jesus and the gospel writing that when these people lived and
the writings we have of others about them.