There are no polytheists in the West.

[painted wolf]

Thank you. This is all I'm talking about. I'll put it this way, I don't think whatever spiritual entities you have communion with are "gods" in any relevant sense if there's no submission and/or they have no say in the path you choose for your life.

What makes you an expert on my God? :sarcastic

Or the details about my relationship to God?

wa:do

 

[-Peacemaker-]

An idol is a representation of a god, not the god itself. As for making it too complicated, I presented the Biblical understanding of the concept. Can you prove that the idol itself is the god when the scriptures refer to real beings called "gods"? Even Paul said, yes there are "indeed lords and gods".

My point is that these idols were things that the ancients trusted in that's all. As I said before, things like sex and greed can be idols that we bow to. This thread is about faith and trust

2 Kings 19:18

"They have thrown their gods into the fire and destroyed them, for they were not gods but only wood and stone, fashioned by men's hands."

Daniel 5:4

"As they drank the wine, they praised the gods of gold and silver, of bronze, iron, wood and stone"

Isaiah 37:19

"They have thrown their gods into the fire and destroyed them, for they were not gods but only wood and stone, fashioned by human hands."

 

[jasonwill2]

Again, the definition of "god" found in the Bible is the only one truly relevant to our lives because it describes who has the ultimate authority in our lives. If it makes you feel better, we could forget the fact that it's from the Bible and simply frame the question as "who or what has ultimate authority in your life?"

Your first part doesn't make any sense. The Christian Bible never defines the word "god" because it was not around then, it refereed to entities by name or title, but never by the title "god". what does it matter the definition of god anyway? What is the big difference between a powerful spirit and a god then?

Thank you. This is all I'm talking about. I'll put it this way, I don't think whatever spiritual entities you have communion with are "gods" in any relevant sense if there's no submission and/or they have no say in the path you choose for your life.

This is just a bunch of Right Hand Path dogma imposing itself on others. I follow the Left Hand Path and such submission is against virtually everything that I hold sacred. Ha-Satan and That Which Extends Within and Without would put me to shame if I ever tried to give up the responsibility of walking my own walk to instead have them hold my hands like some child. Autonomy is a Satanic virtue, and to not use my own god-given abilities to make my own informed decisions based on the circumstances is against the very nature of the LHP, which is in large part the empowerment of the individual.

But if you don't think that my god(s) are gods, then what are they?

 

[jasonwill2]

My point is that these idols were things that the ancients trusted in that's all. As I said before, things like sex and greed can be idols that we bow to. This thread is about faith and trust

2 Kings 19:18

"They have thrown their gods into the fire and destroyed them, for they were not gods but only wood and stone, fashioned by men's hands."

Daniel 5:4

"As they drank the wine, they praised the gods of gold and silver, of bronze, iron, wood and stone"

Isaiah 37:19

"They have thrown their gods into the fire and destroyed them, for they were not gods but only wood and stone, fashioned by human hands."

I would be interested to know what the original Hebrew word is in those instances of word "god", and what the word means. Translations can be kind of hairy at times.

Do we have any Jewish guys versed in Hebrew around here that can answer this for us?

 

[Shermana]

"They have thrown their gods into the fire and destroyed them, for they were not gods but only wood and stone, fashioned by men's hands."

This verse is a give-away, when it says they were "not gods", that means that there are beings called "gods" but that these idols of the "gods" are not really them. The very reason for idols was to represent the god in question, often in occult purposes.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

how is it the only one truly relevant when talking about religions that don't follow the bible? Why bring up the bible in the first place?

And if all you want is to know "who or what has ultimate authority" well what barring does that have on whether or not a religion is polytheistic? Are you saying we HAVE to define the gods as beings of ultimate authority? why? Why do we have to conform to your ideas about worship and god in order for you to admit that we are polytheist?

And what area of my life are you asking about in terms of who has authority?

Why bring up the Bible? It's a good question. Te reason is because we can learn more than just theology about the Christian God from it. We can learn about the religious practices of the peoples around them. We can see how they treated their gods. We can see what it means to truly trust a god even from the Canaanites, Amorites, Egyptians, etc.

 

[Riverwolf]

Why bring up the Bible? It's a good question. Te reason is because we can learn more than just theology about the Christian God from it. We can learn about the religious practices of the peoples around them. We can see how they treated their gods. We can see what it means to truly trust a god even from the Canaanites, Amorites, Egyptians, etc.

I, frankly, wouldn't trust the Bible's reporting on the practices of neighboring religions any more than those from other Scriptures.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

But if you don't think that my god(s) are gods, then what are they?

In my view, they are primarily your teachers. Perhaps they are a companion as well.

 

[painted wolf]

Why bring up the Bible? It's a good question. Te reason is because we can learn more than just theology about the Christian God from it. We can learn about the religious practices of the peoples around them. We can see how they treated their gods. We can see what it means to truly trust a god even from the Canaanites, Amorites, Egyptians, etc.

Funny it doesn't mention Hindu's, Navajo, Norse or anyone outside a few days travel from the local area. It doesn't even mention the Roman Gods.

Yet you seem to think it's a valid way to judge these cultures.

wa:do

 

[Shermana]

I, frankly, wouldn't trust the Bible's reporting on the practices of neighboring religions any more than those from other Scriptures.

The reporting seems to be accurate on the level of having statues and rituals and belief in those deities as real beings that would grant them powers and abilities and keep them safe, we see this remnants of this historical worldwide phenomenon today in "Witch Doctor" and "Shaman" culture in Aboriginal peoples. They all retain themes like Spirits ("Shades"), Afterlife, and interaction with actual "Supernatural" Beings through ritual interaction.

 

[Riverwolf]

The reporting seems to be accurate on the level of having statues and rituals and belief in those deities as real beings that would grant them powers and abilities and keep them safe, we see this remnants of this historical worldwide phenomenon today in "Witch Doctor" and "Shaman" culture in Aboriginal peoples. They all retain themes like Spirits ("Shades"), Afterlife, and interaction with actual "Supernatural" Beings through ritual interaction.

But that's all so vague as to be virtually useless in determining what the actual beliefs of specific peoples are.

 

[painted wolf]

The reporting seems to be accurate on the level of having statues and rituals and belief in those deities as real beings that would grant them powers and abilities and keep them safe, we see this remnants of this historical worldwide phenomenon today in "Witch Doctor" and "Shaman" culture in Aboriginal peoples. They all retain themes like Spirits ("Shades"), Afterlife, and interaction with actual "Supernatural" Beings through ritual interaction.

Sounds a lot like certain forms of Christianity.

wa:do

 

[MoonWater]

Why bring up the Bible? It's a good question. Te reason is because we can learn more than just theology about the Christian God from it. We can learn about the religious practices of the peoples around them. We can see how they treated their gods. We can see what it means to truly trust a god even from the Canaanites, Amorites, Egyptians, etc.

even assuming that's true that still doesn't explain why or how it's relevant to western religions.

 

[jasonwill2]

Why bring up the Bible? It's a good question. Te reason is because we can learn more than just theology about the Christian God from it. We can learn about the religious practices of the peoples around them. We can see how they treated their gods. We can see what it means to truly trust a god even from the Canaanites, Amorites, Egyptians, etc.

I seriously doubt the objectivity of the Hebrews who wrote the Old Testament, given they were often at odds and war with each other.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

What is the big difference between a powerful spirit and a god then?

In the sense that is most relevant to our lives, the trust that one does or doesn't put in that entity is the difference between a "god" and a powerful spirit

 

[jasonwill2]

In the sense that is most relevant to our lives, the trust that one does or doesn't put in that entity is the difference between a "god" and a powerful spirit

And what the **** does that have to do with the Bible? You gave some verses and all I can tell from them is that you think that the commonality between all the listed idols and entities is that people trusted in them. That doesn't mean the Bible justifies that definition as the one and only, or even as one of the definitions at all though.

Or rather, why should we choose your arbitrary definition over the one in the dictionary?

 

[painted wolf]

In the sense that is most relevant to our lives, the trust that one does or doesn't put in that entity is the difference between a "god" and a powerful spirit

And how do you trust how much another "trusts" their deity?

What makes you the judge of others devotion. :sarcastic

wa:do

 

[jasonwill2]

In the sense that is most relevant to our lives, the trust that one does or doesn't put in that entity is the difference between a "god" and a powerful spirit

Wait... I just realized;

this would mean that what is a god for one person, isn't a god for another.

isn't this really relativistic? What is god to you may not be god to me, and vice-versa, but both of our positions are true?

 

[tumbleweed41]

I think what this all comes down to, in relation to the OP is;

My God is stronger and more demanding than your god(s); and therefore the only "real god".

 

[jasonwill2]

I think what this all comes down to, in relation to the OP is;

My God is stronger and more demanding than your god(s); and therefore the only "real god".

Clapping emote.