There can only be awareness in one form or another.

[Runewolf1973]

What I was trying to get at with my post is that either we know awareness or there is complete lack of awareness. Since matter/energy which is what we are can only change form, I find it inevitable that our physical constituents will at some point or another reform in such a way as to allow this experience of awareness again. I will surely not have the same consciousness or memories as I have now and for all intents and purposes I will not be "me", but I will experience awareness again in some form or another. It may take a hundred years of matter changing form, or it may take an eternity, but it will be a seamless transition and I will never even know I was dead or that so much time had passed. Just like BAMM!! and instantaneously you find yourself in a whole new reality despite billions of years that may have passed where your consituents were nothing more than star-dust floating around in space.


Btw, this is not a belief of mine, it is just an idea I was entertaining.

 

[allfoak]

The wisdom tradition that I have come to believe (Vedic/Hindu/Advaita) would say we all continue (atheist or any religion).

I didn't say that Atheists don't "continue" @George-ananda, i said that the state of which they leave this level is the state at which they continue on to the next.
If one is in a state of darkness then it will take some time to eventually find some light to follow, unlike those that would leave here knowing something of the being of light that is our source.

 

[George-ananda]

I determine that by whether or not it is something that can be demonstrated.
If I cannot demonstrate it I will not claim it as knowledge, it becomes a belief or something similar.

If someone says they know something, but cannot demonstrate this, or are not willing to, it then becomes my belief that they do not know.
I say belief because I cannot demonstrate that they do not know, only that they have yet to prove that they do know.

When I say 'there is nothing to know' I mean it as 'there is no reason to think it is something I can know'.

OK, gotcha, I now understand what you were trying to say. To me 'beliefs' (based on logical dissection of all information and arguments) are to me the only important thing in this life. Knowledge tells me nothing interesting about myself or my purpose (or if there is a purpose). I believe what I determine is most reasonable to believe after considering all the evidence (including so-called paranormal evidence) and all arguments from all sides. A strictly materialistic understanding does not fit the data in my opinion.

 

[George-ananda]

I didn't say that Atheists don't "continue" @George-ananda, i said that the state of which they leave this level is the state at which they continue on to the next.
If one is in a state of darkness then it will take some time to eventually find some light to follow, unlike those that would leave here knowing something of the being of light that is our source.

In that case I can agree with you. Perhaps I didn't understand your statement 'Many Atheists die and never return.'; could you clarify what you meant?

 

[allfoak]

What I was trying to get at with my post is that either we know awareness or there is complete lack of awareness. Since matter/energy which is what we are can only change form, I find it inevitable that our physical constituents will at some point or another reform in such a way as to allow this experience of awareness again. I will surely not have the same consciousness or memories as I have now and for all intents and purposes I will not be "me", but I will experience awareness again in some form or another. It may take a hundred years of matter changing form, or it may take an eternity, but it will be a seamless transition and I will never even know I was dead or that so much time had passed. Just like BAMM!! and instantaneously you find yourself in a whole new reality despite billions of years that may have passed where your consituents were nothing more than star-dust floating around in space.



Btw, this is not a belief of mine, it is just an idea I was entertaining.

I would thing that it is true what you say and also it is true that awareness continues all through the process of which you speak.
Once consciousness has been created it does not dissipate back to what it once was but rather continues to grow due to exposure to the laws in place to cause that to happen.

 

[allfoak]

In that case I can agree with you. Perhaps I didn't understand your statement 'Many Atheists die and never return.'; could you clarify what you meant?

Yes.
I meant that in reference to an NDE.
Many do not have this experience they leave and do not return to their body.

 

[George-ananda]

Yes.
I meant that in reference to an NDE.
Many do not have this experience they leave and do not return to their body.

I'm confused still You mean dead? And how does that differ between atheists and non-atheists?

 

[allfoak]

I'm confused still You mean dead? And how does that differ between atheists and non-atheists?

Yes .. i mean dead.
And there is no difference, only what happens afterwards would i say there is a difference.

 

[Desert Snake]

Curious what others think of this idea.

It's some random assertions with no real argument to it.

 

[Runewolf1973]

It's some random assertions with no real argument to it.

Yah, it was a pretty wierd, random idea that popped in my head. That and you can't really agrue with the fact that we are aware now and that is the only the only thing we will ever know is awareness.

 

[Runewolf1973]

We can always infer things, though. That's what you're doing, anyways. You aren't technically stating facts, you are presenting ideas based on inference

Agreed. Inference being a conclusion based on evidence and reason.

 

[Runewolf1973]

What is really cool about this idea if it were true?

We are time travellers. From one conscious dimension to another through the vastness of space and eternity

 

[psychoslice]

Just as the Cosmos will finally die, we will also, and we only have one chance of the life we did live as also the Cosmos, then there will be another so called big bang, and from that big band we will be something else, we will never ever know of the last thing we were, and why should we, its the past, its over a done, not worth even thinking about.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Just as the Cosmos will finally die, we will also, and we only have one chance of the life we did live as also the Cosmos, then there will be another so called big bang, and from that big band we will be something else, we will never ever know of the last thing we were, and why should we, its the past, its over a done, not worth even thinking about.

Yes, and nothing really dies, it changes form.

 

[Straw Dog]

Hello Runewolf,

Consider this... When we die we lose consciousness and all sense of time, space and knowledge of existence. In effect, time would not exist to us and we would be nothing more than matter/energy changing form. We could be dead, unconscious, or completely unaware for billions of years and we wouldn't even know it. The only possibility I can think of is that at some point during that vast amount of time matter changes form and we re-appear or re-awaken into some other form or mode of awareness...perhaps not in human form. In essence, all we can ever possibly know is awareness/consciousness in some form or another. We can never truly know what it is like to be unconscious, dead, or nonexistent because we would be completely unaware of being so. If you were to die right now and even if it takes 10 billion years of matter changing form, the very next thing you would have any knowledge of is your somehow being conscious or aware in some body, some form, or some mode of being whatever that might be.

Curious what others think of this idea.

The thing is that it wouldn't be our awareness or our consciousness. It's a question of having vs being. Matter/energy or awareness/consciousness is not something that we possess. It's something that we participate in. It still comes down to an identity confusion. Either we learn how to identify with the unified flow of life or else life truly is a tragic phenomenon. I honestly don't know the answer.

 

[atanu]

What I was trying to get at with my post is that either we know awareness or there is complete lack of awareness. Since matter/energy which is what we are can only change form, I find it inevitable that our physical constituents will at some point or another reform in such a way as to allow this experience of awareness again. I will surely not have the same consciousness or memories as I have now and for all intents and purposes I will not be "me", but I will experience awareness again in some form or another. It may take a hundred years of matter changing form, or it may take an eternity, but it will be a seamless transition and I will never even know I was dead or that so much time had passed. Just like BAMM!! and instantaneously you find yourself in a whole new reality despite billions of years that may have passed where your consituents were nothing more than star-dust floating around in space.


Btw, this is not a belief of mine, it is just an idea I was entertaining.

I will repeat that there seems to be an assumption that "I" awareness is rooted in materials. So there is a question of consciousness and intervening unconsciousness.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Hello Runewolf,



The thing is that it wouldn't be our awareness or our consciousness. It's a question of having vs being. Matter/energy or awareness/consciousness is not something that we possess. It's something that we participate in. It still comes down to an identity confusion. Either we learn how to identify with the unified flow of life or else life truly is a tragic phenomenon. I honestly don't know the answer.

This awareness/consciousness we have now, is it truly our own? Or does it belong to the universe? That is the problem with humans, we get so attached to things.

 

[Runewolf1973]

I will repeat that there seems to be an assumption that "I" awareness is rooted in materials. So there is a question of consciousness and intervening unconsciousness.

It is a matter of change and complexity from which an identification is assumed.

 

[atanu]

Consider this... When we die we lose consciousness and all sense of time, space and knowledge of existence. In effect, time would not exist to us and we would be nothing more than matter/energy changing form. We could be dead, unconscious, or completely unaware for billions of years and we wouldn't even know it. The only possibility I can think of is that at some point during that vast amount of time matter changes form and we re-appear or re-awaken into some other form or mode of awareness...perhaps not in human form. In essence, all we can ever possibly know is awareness/consciousness in some form or another. We can never truly know what it is like to be unconscious, dead, or nonexistent because we would be completely unaware of being so. If you were to die right now and even if it takes 10 billion years of matter changing form, the very next thing you would have any knowledge of is your somehow being conscious or aware in some body, some form, or some mode of being whatever that might be.

Curious what others think of this idea.

Yah, it was a pretty wierd, random idea that popped in my head. That and you can't really agrue with the fact that we are aware now and that is the only the only thing we will ever know is awareness.

The idea in the OP (especially the red highlighted part) appears to clash with the idea expressed in the later quote shown in blue. While the red is an imagination stemming from an assumption that the 'body will lose consciousness', the latter is the direct truth.

Body can never become unconscious, since it was never conscious. And what is truly conscious can never lose it.

 

[Runewolf1973]

The idea in the OP (especially the red highlighted part) appears to clash with the idea expressed in the later quote shown in blue. While the red is an imagination stemming from an assumption that the 'body will lose consciousness', the latter is the direct truth.

Body can never become unconscious, since it was never conscious. And what is truly conscious can never lose it.

Nothing is truly conscious, only interacting in a complex manner. We may interact in a complex life-like manner as we do now, or we may interact in a less complex, non life-like manner after the body functions cease. When those complex interactions cease, so does that feeling of "consciousness". However, things change form. Perhaps over a period of time wherein we interact in a less complex manner, not fully aware of our interactions, that complexity will emerge again and we will "re-awaken" in a renewed state of full awareness as we are now.