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There is more then enough evidence to prove God exists.

Serenity7855

Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
How can one know if the assurance felt in their heart comes from the Holy Ghost or not? I mean, there are definitely people who felt a sureness in their hearts that they were saved at one point but ended up falling away later.

In all honesty Kryptid, you have told me that your experience was similar to mine. I have no reason to disbelieve you. I was left with an indelible impression on my soul that has never left me. I liken it to putting a man, blindfolded, into a room with someone stood in the corner. You cannot see the person but you know there is someone else in there with you. That is how I know that it is not me feeling these things. We are all connected, as per Quantum Entanglement, so we are just as connected to the Holy Ghost, we just need the username and password to connect us. I have had experiences where the prompting of the spirit has lead to positive outcomes to personal dilemmas and problems. Sometimes with solution that I really do not want to do, and very often recieving knowledge that I did not have. But there is no tangible evidence, only the personal evidence of an external intelligence entering your body. What you have said is what I consider to be an encounter with the Holy Ghost, however, there is something that concerns me. Once you have received the Holy Ghost and have been converted by his testimony you will receive a witness that cannot be denied. There is no going back once you are converted. That you are considering leaving the faith does not seem to be a decision that a person would contemplate if he had been converted by the Holy Ghost.
 
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Serenity7855

Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
Maybe then he will bring out some of the evidence he has but keeps forgetting to bring out

No, I brought the second lot of evidence but you derailed the thread stopping it from being played out. You really must stop bearing false witness. It is not the first time I have had to correct you, is it?
 

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
How can one know if the assurance felt in their heart comes from the Holy Ghost or not? I mean, there are definitely people who felt a sureness in their hearts that they were saved at one point but ended up falling away later.

I'm one of them. I was totally convinced I was born again and that I would never let go of my faith. Things happened though, and everything changed.
 

Parsimony

Well-Known Member
That you are considering leaving the faith does not seem to be a decision that a person would contemplate if he had been converted by the Holy Ghost.
For a very long time after my experiences, I did consider it an absurdity that I would ever disbelieve in God. That's how powerful those experiences were for me. Technically, I don't disbelieve in God, but I have gotten to a point where I could see it happening at some point in the future if I don't find something that will further validate Christianity for me. Maybe something has indeed happened in your life, Serenity, that did not happen in mine. However, I'm not really sure what it was, since your testimony mirrors mine so closely.

But enough about me. I'm somewhat confused about your stance. You seem to be a completely convinced Christian but then you also have that "edging towards deism" statement in your member title. Deism in general accepts the existence of a god but does not subscribe to divinely inspired scriptures or doctrines. Perhaps deism isn't the right word? Then you have also said that you have universalist tendencies where many different religions have their own validity to them. That seems to go against the typical Christian view that other religions are associated with demons and Satan. Can you give me a quick summary of your core beliefs, if that's alright with you?
 
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adi2d

Active Member
No, I brought the second lot of evidence but you derailed the thread stopping it from being played out. You really must stop bearing false witness. It is not the first time I have had to correct you, is it?


I have never derailed this thread. Nothing is stopping you from posting your evidence. Give me a post # or be exposed as a liar
 

Serenity7855

Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
For a very long time after my experiences, I did consider it an absurdity that I would ever disbelieve in God. That's how powerful those experiences were for me. Technically, I don't disbelieve in God, but I have gotten to a point where I could see it happening at some point in the future if I don't find something that will further validate Christianity for me. Maybe something has indeed happened in your life, Serenity, that did not happen in mine. However, I'm not really sure what it was, since your testimony mirrors mine so closely.

Kryptid, please do not make any rash decisions. This is serious stuff, we are talking about your salvation and eternal life. It really sounds like you have genuinely felt the presence of the Holy Ghost communicating with your spirit. Remember that you are a child of God and Satan hates you for it. For those who pose no threat to him there will be but few of Satan's followers tempting those people. There souls are his. However, for people like yourself, who have been worthy enough to be blessed with the spirit of God, your temptation is great and many evil spirits are trying to remit you off that straight and narrow path that leads to life eternal. You are one of the Lords elect, you will recognise his voice when he calls you. Hang in there my friend and be mindful of who you are.

But enough about me. I'm somewhat confused about your stance. You seem to be a completely convinced Christian but then you also have that "edging towards deism" statement in your member title. Deism in general accepts the existence of a god but does not subscribe to divinely inspired scriptures or doctrines. Perhaps deism isn't the right word? Then you have also said that you have universalist tendencies where many different religions have their own validity to them. That seems to go against the typical Christian view that other religions are associated with demons and Satan. Can you give me a quick summary of your core beliefs, if that's alright with you?

Oh dear, you have caught me a bit off guard there. What are my core beliefs. Well, I will give it a go.

Everything I believe in can be found in the Plan of Salvation.

  1. I believe in God, the eternal father, and in his son Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
  2. I believe that they are separate and distinct.
  3. I believe that the Scriptures are the literal word of God. That it was written by men and inspired by God. That every language that it is translated into has what God wants them to have without making corrections through misinterpretation of the hieroglyphics of the original text. That it is a book of Commandments intended to provide all that is required to live a Christ centred life so as to be able to live with God again. It is not a history book, the New Testament is not even chronologically correct.
  4. I believe that pre-big bang God was much different then he is now. I don't know what he was but I believe that when he caused the big bang that he stepped into time and space and took upon himself a mantle of flesh and bones.
  5. I believe that Jesus Christ atoned for the the sins of all men and that he suffered an ignominious death on the cross.
  6. I believe that he gave up the ghost on that cross so that he could be resurrected three days later opening the gateway for all mortal beings to be resurrected and receive salvation.
  7. I believe that we will be judged from the book of life to see if we are worthy to dwell in the presence of God. Those that are worthy will enter into eternal life in the presence of God. Those who are not worthy will enter into a damned Kingdom unable to be in the presence of God. They will be damned, prevented, unable to dwell with God.
  8. I believe that God in omnipotent and omniscient, able to do all that can be done and know all that can be known
  9. I believe that we are here to be tried and tested in the flesh so we have been given free agency as opposed to Satan's plan to force us into doing the right so that he could have the glory.
  10. I believe that because we have free agency that diety can not intervene without taking free agency away,
    and thwarting the Plan of Salvation.
  11. I believe in cause and effect. That we will always reap what we sow, unless we repent. Murders always get found out, theives always get caught, and liars always get exposed, in one way or another. Sow condescension and confrontation, and that will be your lot. Be compassionate, empathetic, kind benevolent and charitable and you will be blessed. I believe it to be a universal law.
  12. I believe in quantum entanglement, where everything in the universe is connected, and that we can connect to the influence of the Holy Ghost using quantum entanglement and receive knowledge, even hidden knowledge.
  13. I believe that God brought the universe into being through the big bang
  14. I believe that dark matter is another word for the Holy Ghost.
  15. I believe in a sixth sense.
  16. I believe that all supernatural phenomenon should be taken more seriously and studied. To that end, I believe in modern day miracles both through the Holy Ghost and mens faith.
  17. I believe in evolution, however, I believe that we were introduced to the world after evolution had run its course and at an optimum time to insure our survival
  18. I believe that God designed the DNA that is used to make us and that he did indeed breath life into the dust of the earth my using the elements to create man.
  19. I believe in biogenesis but that abiogenesis was performed by God, in much the same was as he created us
  20. I believe that our world has been finely tuned to sustain life
  21. I believe that God has created many world's, just like ours.
  22. I claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of my own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
  23. I believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
  24. I believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, I may say that I follow the admonition of Paul—I believe all things, I hope all things, I have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, I seek after these things.

The last three have been stolen from the Mormons articles of faith. I like what they say

To be honest Kryptid, I could go on and on. My religion is complex because I use science to live it, 24/7 and not just for a couple of hours on a Sunday. You might say that I live my religion like a lifestyle, but because of the element of science I incorporate in with it, I am not fanatical, I am rational and reason it out in my mind. I love everyone, regardless as to who they are. That may be hard to believe if you read some of my posts, but they are just words, and I am imperfect. I bear no grudges, but suffer no fool, or those jumped up in pride who elevate themselves above others, but, once again, no grudges held. These, I suppose, are my core beliefs, but there are many off shots from each one.
 
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Parsimony

Well-Known Member
Kryptid, please do not make any rash decisions. This is serious stuff, we are talking about your salvation and eternal life. It really sounds like you have genuinely felt the presence of the Holy Ghost communicating with your spirit. Remember that you are a child of God and Satan hates you for it. For those who pose no threat to him there will be but few of Satan's followers tempting those people. There souls are his. However, for people like yourself, who have been worthy enough to be blessed with the spirit of God, your temptation is great and many evil spirits are trying to remit you off that straight and narrow path that leads to life eternal. You are one of the Lords elect, you will recognise his voice when he calls you. Hang in there my friend and be mindful of who you are.
I am extremely aware of the dangers. That's why this past year has been very stressful to me. My mind keeps coming up with unanswered questions. Whenever I have found proposed answers to these questions, either they don't make sense to me, they utilize circular logic, the answer gives other religions validity, or they raise more questions than they answer.

The presence or lack of belief is not a decision. It happens on its own once a person is presented with sufficient evidence (or a lack thereof). I cannot choose to believe that the Earth is flat. I could pretend to believe in a flat Earth, but I cannot actually believe in it unless profound evidence were presented to me of its flatness. The same goes with Christianity. I cannot force myself to believe in it wholeheartedly given my current state of knowledge. I could pretend, but it would just be pretending. My mind just does not find its claims and evidences particularly convincing. I would need more evidence, better evidence, before my mind could make the jump back to sincere belief. If God is going to reject me because I cannot force myself to believe in Him 100%, then that's not something that I can help. Once again, beliefs are not choices.

Oh dear, you have caught me a bit off guard there. What are my core beliefs. Well, I will give it a go.

Everything I believe in can be found in the Plan of Salvation.

  1. I believe in God, the eternal father, and in his son Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
  2. I believe that they are separate and distinct.
  3. I believe that the Scriptures are the literal word of God. That it was written by men and inspired by God. That every language that it is translated into has what God wants them to have without making corrections through misinterpretation of the hieroglyphics of the original text. That it is a book of Commandments intended to provide all that is required to live a Christ centred life so as to be able to live with God again. It is not a history book, the New Testament is not even chronologically correct.
  4. I believe that pre-big bang God was much different then he is now. I don't know what he was but I believe that when he caused the big bang that he stepped into time and space and took upon himself a mantle of flesh and bones.
  5. I believe that Jesus Christ atoned for the the sins of all men and that he suffered an ignominious death on the cross.
  6. I believe that he gave up the ghost on that cross so that he could be resurrected three days later opening the gateway for all mortal beings to be resurrected and receive salvation.
  7. I believe that we will be judged from the book of life to see if we are worthy to dwell in the presence of God. Those that are worthy will enter into eternal life in the presence of God. Those who are not worthy will enter into a damned Kingdom unable to be in the presence of God. They will be damned, prevented, unable to dwell with God.
  8. I believe that God in omnipotent and omniscient, able to do all that can be done and know all that can be known
  9. I believe that we are here to be tried and tested in the flesh so we have been given free agency as opposed to Satan's plan to force us into doing the right so that he could have the glory.
  10. I believe that because we have free agency that diety can not intervene without taking free agency away,
    and thwarting the Plan of Salvation.
  11. I believe in cause and effect. That we will always reap what we sow, unless we repent. Murders always get found out, theives always get caught, and liars always get exposed, in one way or another. Sow condescension and confrontation, and that will be your lot. Be compassionate, empathetic, kind benevolent and charitable and you will be blessed. I believe it to be a universal law.
  12. I believe in quantum entanglement, where everything in the universe is connected, and that we can connect to the influence of the Holy Ghost using quantum entanglement and receive knowledge, even hidden knowledge.
  13. I believe that God brought the universe into being through the big bang
  14. I believe that dark matter is another word for the Holy Ghost.
  15. I believe in a sixth sense.
  16. I believe that all supernatural phenomenon should be taken more seriously and studied. To that end, I believe in modern day miracles both through the Holy Ghost and mens faith.
  17. I believe in evolution, however, I believe that we were introduced to the world after evolution had run its course and at an optimum time to insure our survival
  18. I believe that God designed the DNA that is used to make us and that he did indeed breath life into the dust of the earth my using the elements to create man.
  19. I believe in biogenesis but that abiogenesis was performed by God, in much the same was as he created us
  20. I believe that our world has been finely tuned to sustain life
  21. I believe that God has created many world's, just like ours.
  22. I claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of my own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
  23. I believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
  24. I believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, I may say that I follow the admonition of Paul—I believe all things, I hope all things, I have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, I seek after these things.

The last three have been stolen from the Mormons articles of faith. I like what they say

To be honest Kryptid, I could go on and on. My religion is complex because I use science to live it, 24/7 and not just for a couple of hours on a Sunday. You might say that I live my religion like a lifestyle, but because of the element of science I incorporate in with it, I am not fanatical, I am rational and reason it out in my mind. I love everyone, regardless as to who they are. That may be hard to believe if you read some of my posts, but they are just words, and I am imperfect. I bear no grudges, but suffer no fool, or those jumped up in pride who elevate themselves above others, but, once again, no grudges held. These, I suppose, are my core beliefs, but there are many off shots from each one.
Alright, thanks for that.
 
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Serenity7855

Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
I have never derailed this thread. Nothing is stopping you from posting your evidence. Give me a post # or be exposed as a liar

No problem.

The following post is where I introduced the topic of fine tuning

Post 1844
No, I am not. I am saying that life on this planet was not possible as it was. Things had to be finely tuned in order for life to exist. It was never going to happen as things were. There had to be changes. Now, you can explain away a good many things on natural laws like Thermodynamics and the Laws of motion as well as special relativity but that cannot explain the improbable conditioning of the universe to allow for life to either come from non-life (abiogenesis) or from life - God (biogenesis). That suggests the fine tuning is complex not the universe, per se. That suggests a designer of that complex fine tuning. Of course you will be looking for an entity of superior intelligence to design and augment that fine tuning so surely God needs to be more intelligent then the work he does. What if the universe is God?

Now, because atheists are contantantly trying to steer the thread off course by posting unrelated posts or by insulting or questioning ones integrity with silly slurs, you will fine many of these types of unnecessary posts in between the serious attempts to debate the topic, however they are there. By post 1923 you made a racist allegation that took the thread off course and it never returned.


1923 Originally Posted by*adi2d*

Why do you assume big brother would want blonde hair blue eyes to be the norm for this master race?

With the world population being what it is the scientist that creates life could have a much different idea of what the master race should look like

Racism,like plagiarism,is still wrong when it is unintentional

How quickly can the tone of a thread go from bad to worse when posters like you have to inject the racist card instead of making comment on the points of debate. Tell me, as I am not sure, in these 2,000 posts have you made any positive contribution on either side of the debate. I haven't been able to find any but I am sure there must be something. I know that you say nothing that causes me to think, like magicman and blackdog22 do. I love to be challenged in that way by intelligent and polite posters.

I told you this in the following post.

1928 Originally Posted by*adi2d*

So is this all the evidence for this thread?

I think you have done a wonderful job of derailing and closing the debate, well done. And I eventually found the opportunity to discuss*fine*tuning. Hey Ho using the fabricated racist card tends to put people on edge, including me.

And again in this post.

Originally Posted by Serenity7855 View Post
No, I brought the second lot of evidence but you derailed the thread stopping it from being played out. You really must stop bearing false witness. It is not the first time I have had to correct you, is it?
*

And I find myself having to tell you a twice. Can you remember me telling you that you use the repetitive technique that atheists use. We, here it is. You and SkepticThinker and Outhouse derailed this thread and it has never returned to the anthropic principle.
 
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serp777

Well-Known Member
I wasn't trying to impress you, indeed, the thought had never crossed my mind. To compare me to a schizophrenic is like saying that everyone that has a thought has schizophrenia. That would be preposterous as well as offensive. But that is what atheists like to do, offend.

Well as if anyone cared about impressing you either; it was merely a figure of speech. Comparing you to a schizophrenic is valid factually because both you and them hear voices in your heads; you claimed that you heard the holy ghost speak to you and I can cite you if you forgot. But now you claim that it was just poetic, which i might add is pointless rhetoric. If you had a thought then that isn't the holy ghost speaking to you--that is your brain processing data, a pretty big distinction. To be offended so easily is what religious people like to do.
 
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serp777

Well-Known Member
Well that is good news. I am a scientist and didn't know it, or care.




Sorry, you got that one wrong. I only put God up if He is the most likely candidate and there is evidence to implicate him. I fear you are misrepresenting me and tarring me with the same brush that you tar everyone else.



This, of course, is a dishonest statement intended solely to stupefy me. Why can't you atheists play fair and have just a little more decorum in your post. You do not paint a very good portrait of yourselves or your clan.

I have never claimed to hear voices. I have used the saying poetically, like, "the still small voice that whispers to your soul" , but that is not intended to me taken literally. I have never heard a voice in my head, ever. That is not what the Holy Ghost does, and if you would have done your homework, you would have read my post on how the Holy Ghost communicates, but I wonder if that would have stopped you from misrepresenting me and trying to make me sound mentally unstable. The evidence from the spirit of God is personal to me and is never intended to prove anything to anybody else but me. You do not have to believe a thing I say. I am not asking you to. I am expressing my opinions, based on my knowledge and experience. If you disagree then please challenge them politely and without malice or offence. To do so is indecorous and undignified.

Then why do you speak as if you have evidence? Your personal anecdotes, which is what this thread consists of, do not provide any evidence for Christianity specifically. So far you have given no reason why it would be reasonable to believe CHristianity over Islam or Hinduism, etc.

Also there isn't a group or clan of atheists. Do you understand what an atheist is?

THere is not such thing as an aleprechaunist clan, or an a-celestial teapotist clan, or an a-greek god clain or whatever. Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about, so why say it?
 
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serp777

Well-Known Member
No problem.

The following post is where I introduced the topic of fine tuning



Now, because atheists are contantantly trying to steer the thread off course by posting unrelated posts or by insulting or questioning ones integrity with silly slurs, you will fine many of these types of unnecessary posts in between the serious attempts to debate the topic, however they are there. By post 1923 you made a racist allegation that took the thread off course and it never returned.




I told you this in the following post.



And again in this post.

*

And I find myself having to tell you a twice. Can you remember me telling you that you use the repetitive technique that atheists use. We, here it is. You and SkepticThinker and Outhouse derailed this thread and it has never returned to the anthropic principle.

The fine tuning argument is absurd. I am going to guess you've listened to William Lane Craig.

Most of the universe is not fine tuned at all for life. And to say that it is fine tuned implies you know all the combinations of all constants, and that the exact same life couldn't have arisen an entirely different and better way, but without the huge dangers of this universe.
 

Serenity7855

Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
Well as if anyone cared about impressing you either; it was merely a figure of speech. Comparing you to a schizophrenic is valid factually because both you and them hear voices in your heads; you claimed that you heard the holy ghost speak to you and I can cite you if you forgot. But now you claim that it was just poetic, which i might add is pointless rhetoric. If you had a thought then that isn't the holy ghost speaking to you--that is your brain processing data, a pretty big distinction. To be offended so easily is what religious people like to do.

Now I said the still small voice that whispers to your soul, however, I did not say that the Holy Ghost spoke to me. You misrepresent me. I would never say he speaks to me because I know that he doesn't so why would I say he did. Now we can do the usually thing of dissecting what I said and get the definition of "voice" to see if I mislead you or to discredit my ability to use the Queen's English. That is what atheists do when backed in a corner. They never, ever admit they are wrong or just misread it. They would much rather put obstacle down to interrupt the topic.

To have a thought is natural and recognised as so. To feel someone else's thoughts is separate and distinct. But you will never know that as you have closed your mind to it. That is sad.

To be offensive so easily is what atheists like to do.
 

Serenity7855

Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
The fine tuning argument is absurd. I am going to guess you've listened to William Lane Craig.

Well, we are not actually talking about fine tuning just when it was introduced here.

Then you would guess right. WLC is a very intelligent, knowledgeable and wise man. You would do well to listen to him as well. As for it being absurd, it is a scientific consideration call the Anthropic Principle

Most of the universe is not fine tuned at all for life. And to say that it is fine tuned implies you know all the combinations of all constants, and that the exact same life couldn't have arisen an entirely different and better way, but without the huge dangers of this universe.

Well yes it is. We take a segment of space and assume it is typical of the entire universe. By doing that you can tell that the universe is the same everywhere, being finely tuned.

The huge dangers of the universe, I would be interested to know what they are. I believe you are looking for arguments as opposed to reality.
 

Serenity7855

Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
Then why do you speak as if you have evidence? Your personal anecdotes, which is what this thread consists of, do not provide any evidence for Christianity specifically. So far you have given no reason why it would be reasonable to believe CHristianity over Islam or Hinduism, etc.

Because I do have evidence. Circumstantial evidence that when collated produce a picture where God is a very good proposition.

I do not think that we should have Christianity over Islam or Hinduism. That sounds a tad elitist to me and is an.ignis fatuous assertion. I claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of my own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may. It is called free will. Your incredulity breads insidious misinformation suggesting an air of nefarious duplicity.
Also there isn't a group or clan of atheists. Do you understand what an atheist is?

Just a figure of speech, as you have said.

THere is not such thing as an aleprechaunist clan, or an a-celestial teapotist clan, or an a-greek god clain or whatever. Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about, so why say it?

So why are you posting to someone who has no idea what they are talking about. Seems pretty pointless to me, unless you just like to taunt and make abrasive remarks about Christians, which, in all honesty, seems most likely.
 
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Parsimony

Well-Known Member
Well as if anyone cared about impressing you either; it was merely a figure of speech. Comparing you to a schizophrenic is valid factually because both you and them hear voices in your heads; you claimed that you heard the holy ghost speak to you and I can cite you if you forgot. But now you claim that it was just poetic, which i might add is pointless rhetoric. If you had a thought then that isn't the holy ghost speaking to you--that is your brain processing data, a pretty big distinction. To be offended so easily is what religious people like to do.
I'm not sure if you were a Christian in the past or not, but I just wanted to let you know that when someone says that the Holy Ghost "speaks" to them it isn't the same as actually hearing a voice. It's more akin to an epiphany, a feeling or profound realization. At the same time, it's also more than just that. It's actually rather difficult to describe to someone who has never had the experience before. Nevertheless, I do suppose that it is possible for such sensations to be caused by the brain itself.
 

TheGunShoj

Active Member
Born again Christians have done more to thwart Gods plan of salvation then any other religions on the face of the earth. You cannot loose faith, you gave it up for something else or you never had it in the first place. Those that have been truly converted can never go back to what they were. It is impossible.



That is not the way the Holy Ghost works. He is an influence. His influence fill the emmensity of space. There is no place where it is not. God did not take it away, you must have either pushed him away or you never had him in the first place. If you are worthy then the door is unlocked and you receive his companionship. If you are a unrepentant sinner them it is you who was away from him. He will never walk away from you. Sorry, but this has all been given to us in the Scriptures.



You have free agency, you make your own choices. You are the only one that can be at fault. If you allow others to mislead you and allow self righteous individual to teach you false doctrine then it is your fault for allowing it to happen. You cannot blame anybody else. Choose the Right.

No True Scotsman - RationalWiki
 

TheGunShoj

Active Member
No it wasn't. I can answer any question you have about Christianity but what good would it be to you if you have not been converted. Until you receive the Holy Ghost you will never know any of his mysteries. There is no such place as hell. Besides, your last sentence suggests that you are still angry with Christians because you decided to listen to them.

So you won't know the holy ghost until you have received him...interesting. So you have to know him before you can know him. makes sense I guess?:shrug:
 

Serenity7855

Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
So you won't know the holy ghost until you have received him...interesting. So you have to know him before you can know him. makes sense I guess?:shrug:

Do you know anyone until you are introduced to them and communicate with them over time? Getting to know the Holy Ghost is no different, however, that is not for you, or any other inveterate atheist, to worry yourself over. You do not believe that God exists let alone the Holy Ghost, so don't worry yourself about it.
 

serp777

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure if you were a Christian in the past or not, but I just wanted to let you know that when someone says that the Holy Ghost "speaks" to them it isn't the same as actually hearing a voice. It's more akin to an epiphany, a feeling or profound realization. At the same time, it's also more than just that. It's actually rather difficult to describe to someone who has never had the experience before. Nevertheless, I do suppose that it is possible for such sensations to be caused by the brain itself.

So instead of simply performing scientifically verifiable miracles (breaking the laws of physics) and convincing everyone of the truth of God, he decides to instead give a select few people some ambiguous, cryptic, and indescribable feelings of his existence, while making the universe appear to be random and materialistic. He also makes it unavaliable to select groups of cultures and humans before Jesus.

I would be convinced very easily if God simply rearranged the stars in Aramaic in the milky way to write-- "I, yahweh, exist". If God wants us to believe, then do it already and i'll believe! If not it's because either God does not care about what we believe, or that God has a sadistic pleasure out of tricking people to believe different things in order to create conflict.

"I do suppose that it is possible for such sensations to be caused by the brain itself"

It is almost certain those sensations are caused by the brain itself. Suicide bombers would claim the same thing except they would say that allah is commanding them, through cryptic and unreliable feelings, to crash a plane into a building. Why anyone would trust feelings and sensations as accurate/factual is beyond me. Do you believe those suicide bombers? Of course not; that would be ridiculous. But at the same time, you think your own feelings are reasonable. Double standards ftw.
 
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