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There is more then enough evidence to prove God exists.

outhouse

Atheistically
Have you seen how long this thread is, 1,540 posts. Have you seen the amount of interest it has generated, 16,000 views. Are we done here?

No we are not done.

You have received this many views, as people watching you being corrected over and over and over again, to no avail.


You refuse all credible evidence in favor of your own brand of pseudoscience.


You attack the messenger, out of failure to refute messages.

You avoid and ignore statements, that have your cornered in, as you always paint yourself in a corner. :facepalm:
 

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
How can God intervene? It would make everything pointless. How can we prove ourselves herewith if God intervenes. If God could show himself to us, and if miraculously we survived it, the knowledge would remove free agency.

You seem to be confused. Let me try to clear it up:

1) God could intervene without showing himself. Most people who believe in the Abrahamic god believe he intervenes in the universe without showing himself.

2) God showing himself to us would not remove free agency. We've been over this. It would just let us make an actual informed decision. You have to decide between two houses. You know the price and square footage of each, but nothing else. Now make a decision on which one you want. Pretty tough and stupid, right? Now someone gives you all the information you want about them both. Has your free agency been removed? No. It's just been informed, so you can make a real decision.

I believe in the principles behind the flood. The story it portrays. I do not know if a flood ever took place. I was not there in order to verify it and I know of nobody else who was there. Were you there, did you witness the event? Nah, that wouldn't work, we would only have your word for it. No, unless there is a video of it then none of us will ever know.

We will never know for sure, just as we don't know whether leprechauns exist. We can be 99.99% sure there was no global flood like the one in the Bible. We don't have to have been there to be that sure. We can see that the story doesn't make sense. We can see that it works a heck of a lot better as a parable/myth, since the actual physics of the story don't hold up in reality.
 

Serenity7855

Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
There is a video of it. Its named "Noah". Of course there is also a video named "Superman" but I don't believe Clark Kent can fly. That wouldn't be reasonable.

I hate to be the bearer of bad knew. Clark Kent? He died. The Noah movie, it was a modern day spoof. What we need is a method of tapping into the memory locked in our genes so we can get first hand information.
 

Serenity7855

Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
You seem to be confused. Let me try to clear it up:

I don't feel confused. I have it mostly all worked out.

1) God could intervene without showing himself. Most people who believe in the Abrahamic god believe he intervenes in the universe without showing himself.

Regardless as to whether we know it or will never know it any intervention result in a compromise of free agency.

2) God showing himself to us would not remove free agency. We've been over this. It would just let us make an actual informed decision. You have to decide between two houses. You know the price and square footage of each, but nothing else. Now make a decision on which one you want. Pretty tough and stupid, right? Now someone gives you all the information you want about them both. Has your free agency been removed? No. It's just been informed, so you can make a real decision.

God shows himself. We know that he exists. Where is the test of our faith as faith will become knowledge.

By making us choose a more realistic and informed decision cause us to change our decision. It interferes with decision making processes which could change our entire lives. How have we been tested in the flesh when we have had faith turn into knowledge and our decision making affected. If you look at it logically any and every intervention is going to change the course of our lives by changing the ability to choose for ourselves into a more informed decision. That is what we do not need. That is pretty much how we see quantum physics.

We will never know for sure, just as we don't know whether leprechauns exist. We can be 99.99% sure there was no global flood like the one in the Bible. We don't have to have been there to be that sure. We can see that the story doesn't make sense. We can see that it works a heck of a lot better as a parable/myth, since the actual physics of the story don't hold up in reality.

I think you are probably right. There would also be archaeological evidence to show aquatic fossils in unusual places and sediments. It is possible that God used supernatural means to drown these people in supernatural water. Euthenased by the vacuation of air is not dissimilar to drowning. He could have just added a single atom of oxygen for every two of oxygen making ozone that would suffocate us. Ozone is a colourless unstable toxic gas with a pungent odour and powerful oxidizing properties, formed from oxygen by electrical discharges or ultraviolet light. It differs from normal oxygen (O2) in having three atoms in its molecule (O3). Or maybe he used carbon monoxide poisoning which steals oxygen molecules. There are many ways of assimilating drowning. My mother inhaled her own vomit and took 15 minutes to effectively drown on the contents of her stomach. It is all asphyxiation.
 
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Serenity7855

Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
No we are not done.

Well, I do not think that is your call.

You have received this many views, as people watching you being corrected over and over and over again, to no avail.

That is the answer on delusion.

You refuse all credible evidence in favor of your own brand of pseudoscience.

I have never said that, so I charge you to show evidence to prove that claim, or be labelled a liar.

You attack the messenger, out of failure to refute messages.

What message am I failing to refute. I started the message so I would hardly be refuting my own message, would I?

You avoid and ignore statements, that have your cornered in, as you always paint yourself in a corner. :facepalm:

What statement have I ignored or avoided. Or is this another of your baseless assertions mimicking words of your contemporaries. If you see me painted in a corner then maybe a closure inspection will show that it is me looking into the corner, where you sit.
 
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outhouse

Atheistically
You ignore everything posted that is historically accurate.

You ignore your god was defined only by men.

Your god was factually two Canaanite deities who were compiled together by early Israelites who were polytheist.

Which was later redefined by man adding the son of god, which was taken from the Emperor who was the son of god first, and who the early Christians competed against for proselytes.

Man has a long standing perfectly clear history of defining and creating gods, all of which you ignore in favor of following blindly.
 
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adi2d

Active Member
I hate to be the bearer of bad knew. Clark Kent? He died. The Noah movie, it was a modern day spoof. What we need is a method of tapping into the memory locked in our genes so we can get first hand information.


You're the one that said we needed a video. Now you've changed it again. Are you saying all our history is in our genes?


I hate to break it to you but Clark Kent never lived. He is an idea made by the mind of men
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
I think you are probably right. There would also be archaeological evidence to show aquatic fossils in unusual places and sediments. It is possible that God used supernatural means to drown these people in supernatural water. Euthenased by the vacuation of air is not dissimilar to drowning. He could have just added a single atom of oxygen for every two of oxygen making ozone that would suffocate us. Ozone is a colourless unstable toxic gas with a pungent odour and powerful oxidizing properties, formed from oxygen by electrical discharges or ultraviolet light. It differs from normal oxygen (O2) in having three atoms in its molecule (O3). Or maybe he used carbon monoxide poisoning which steals oxygen molecules. There are many ways of assimilating drowning. My mother inhaled her own vomit and took 15 minutes to effectively drown on the contents of her stomach. It is all asphyxiation.

Supernatural water? Ozone?

So the ark was built to float above supernatural water or a layer of ozone?
It is mind boggling to observe such levels of rationalizations.

But let's forget for a moment God's genocidal arsenal.

Do you really believe that the whole human race (and all animal species) have common ancestors who were on that ark?

If you are aware that there is no archeological evidence of any global (natural) flood, you should be 1000000 times more aware that there is no evidence of all animal species coming from a couple of ancestors 4,000 years ago.

Ciao

- viole
 

Serenity7855

Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
You're the one that said we needed a video. Now you've changed it again. Are you saying all our history is in our genes?

I recently read that our DNA contains the historical information of our ancestry. They just cannot decipher it, yet. I see no reason why it shouldn't, do you.

I hate to break it to you but Clark Kent never lived. He is an idea made by the mind of men

Absolute rubbish. The reason why we have not heard anything about Superman, for some years now is because Clark Kent died, along with his alter ego, Christopher Reeves.
 

Serenity7855

Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
You ignore everything posted that is historically accurate.

For example, oh no, you tend not to back up what you write.

You ignore your god was defined only by men.

No man has ever defined God to me. The Holy Ghost testified of the truthfulness of his existence.

Your god was factually two Canaanite deities who were compiled together by early Israelites who were polytheist.

You have mixed my God up with someone else's. You really should not believe everything you watch.

Which was later redefined by man adding the son of god, which was taken from the Emperor who was the son of god first, and who the early Christians competed against for proselytes.

I have seen sufficient evidence that has convinced me that the Jesus of Nazereth, that I read about in the New Testament, is a authentic person who walked the earth. People like to justify things so will manipulate history, to best fit their beliefs, or in your case, disbelief.

Man has a long standing perfectly clear history of defining and creating gods, all of which you ignore in favor of following blindly.

Oh, I think you mis-understand me if you believe that I follow blindly, I do not. I am quite clear about the God I worship.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
For example, oh no, you tend not to back up what you write.

Many times have I provided back up.

History of ancient Israel and Judah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Israelite monotheism evolved gradually out of pre-existing beliefs and practices of the ancient world.[76] The religion of the Israelites of Iron Age I, like the Canaanite faith from which it evolved[77] and other ancient Near Eastern religions, was based on a cult of ancestors and worship of family gods (the "gods of the fathers").[78] Its major deities were not numerous – El, Asherah, and Yahweh, with Baal as a fourth god, and perhaps Shamash (the sun) in the early period.[79] By the time of the early Hebrew kings, El and Yahweh had become fused and Asherah did not continue as a separate state cult,[79

No man has ever defined God to me. The Holy Ghost testified of the truthfulness of his existence.


How honest is that since you use the known errors in the bible as your only source.


Does that ghost look like a professor or imagination :facepalm:


You have mixed my God up with someone else's. You really should not believe everything you watch.

So your very ignorant to the credible history not in dispute?


I provided sources, you provide imagination and ignore that fact.


I have seen sufficient evidence that has convinced me that the Jesus of Nazereth, that I read about in the New Testament, is a authentic person who walked the earth. People like to justify things so will manipulate history, to best fit their beliefs, or in your case, disbelief.

Your in the dark with no light.

I actually fight for the historicity of jesus, its just how ignorant you are of the topic you chose to debate. And against some of the brighter mythicist, that would put you to shame, more shame then your placing on yourself here.

Actually some of the best there are. You know authors and such.


I am quite clear about the God I worship.


You seem to be quite clear to be following blindly mythology on topics you know nothing about.

And when given the opportunity to learn from a professor, you turned your nose at it deciding that wallowing in ignorance was a better choice
 

Serenity7855

Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
Supernatural water? Ozone?

Yes, why not?

So the ark was built to float above supernatural water or a layer of ozone?
It is mind boggling to observe such levels of rationalizations.

How do you think Einstein came of with his law's on relativity. Do you think that it was just dropped in his lap without him rationalising it first. Come on.

But let's forget for a moment God's genocidal arsenal.

No, let's forget it completely and entirely. He does not possess a genocidal arsenal.

Do you really believe that the whole human race (and all animal species) have common ancestors who were on that ark?

Darwin believed in a common ancestor, I would probably go with multi-lines of ancestry. As for ancestors being on that are, you first have to determine if there was an ark in the first place. Was there?

If you are aware that there is no archeological evidence of any global (natural) flood, you should be 1000000 times more aware that there is no evidence of all animal species coming from a couple of ancestors 4,000 years ago.

No, however, it is now considered an axiom. We are sure that common ancestry either came from a single protozoa or that there were several lines from several protozoa. Either way animal DNA could easily contain historical evidence dating back throughout their ancestry. That is a reasonable hypothesis to make. Human beings are a different race. Our creation happened in a more intelligent and organised manner. We are made of the same elements as the animals but it is there that our similarities end. We have reason and awareness.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
however, it is now considered an axiom.
.

Ridiculous. :facepalm:

Sources, provide them.


Our creation happened in a more intelligent and organised manner

It is called evolution.

We have reason and awareness.

So do many other animals :facepalm:



If it is our increased brain size and advanced consciousness you would like to debate, then please read up on human evolution and look at how clear the picture is from millions of years of evolution.

There is nothing magical, or supernatural in any way. It is only your ignorance on the topic speaking.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Have you ever thought about thinking about what you type, before doing so?

Im guilty all the time.


It would just be nice to see you research what you say, instead of repeating your faith which is not evidence of anything.
 

Serenity7855

Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
Have you ever thought about thinking about what you type, before doing so?

Im guilty all the time.

You are guilty of being mean. Have you ever tried to post to me without insulting me.

“I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.”
― C.S. Lewis

It would just be nice to see you research what you say, instead of repeating your faith which is not evidence of anything.

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen"(Heb.11:1).

To him that believes, no proof is necessary. To him that disbelieves, no proof is sufficient.
Simpleman
 

Bunyip

pro scapegoat
You are guilty of being mean. Have you ever tried to post to me without insulting me.

“I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.”
― C.S. Lewis



"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen"(Heb.11:1).

To him that believes, no proof is necessary. To him that disbelieves, no proof is sufficient.
Simpleman

Then why claim to have proof?
 

Serenity7855

Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
Many times have I provided back up.

History of ancient Israel and Judah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Israelite monotheism evolved gradually out of pre-existing beliefs and practices of the ancient world.[76] The religion of the Israelites of Iron Age I, like the Canaanite faith from which it evolved[77] and other ancient Near Eastern religions, was based on a cult of ancestors and worship of family gods (the "gods of the fathers").[78] Its major deities were not numerous – El, Asherah, and Yahweh, with Baal as a fourth god, and perhaps Shamash (the sun) in the early period.[79] By the time of the early Hebrew kings, El and Yahweh had become fused and Asherah did not continue as a separate state cult,[79

All quite meaningless to me. I would sooner hold to the arm of God then that of the flesh. He knows where we are going.

How honest is that since you use the known errors in the bible as your only source.

Known errors, you say? Known by whom? Mankind, in all his imperfections or God, in his perfection.

Does that ghost look like a professor or imagination :facepalm:

What does imagination look like?

So your very ignorant to the credible history not in dispute?

http://www.beyondintractability.org/contributors/norman-shultzHistorical

Historical accounts are subject to frequent disagreement. Much disagreement is due to the fact that accurate history is difficult to obtain, for a variety of reasons. Much information regarding the past has been lost. Many cultures have a rich oral history, but lack written documents. Oral accounts, or "story telling," suffer from an inherent loss of information. Each person in the chain will tend to "interpret" the story, presenting the opportunity to accidentally alter it, or worse, to slant the story to one's own tastes before passing it on. Written history before the age of copiers and computers had to be hand-copied, providing similarly easy opportunities for errors or exaggeration. Some material is simply propaganda, intentionally containing little or no truth. Even if authentic, the meaning of documents regarding the past can be highly unclear to any modern investigator, or can conflict with other sources. These factors and others result in quite a bit of uncertainty about historical accounts. This leaves room for parties to interpret history in ways that favor them, resulting in strong resistance from those on opposing sides.

I provided sources, you provide imagination and ignore that fact.

Your facts reside in your imagination. You imagine that mankind is more knowledgeable then God.

Your in the dark with no light.

Well, I have yet to fall.

I actually fight for the historicity of jesus, its just how ignorant you are of the topic you chose to debate. And against some of the brighter mythicist, that would put you to shame, more shame then your placing on yourself here.

You think that one can only obtain knowledge from other people, who all have biases and impartiality. It is OK to read but the words are not always true.

Actually some of the best there are. You know authors and such.

Yes, I know. I am an author, are you.

You seem to be quite clear to be following blindly mythology on topics you know nothing about.

You seem to be quite eager and willing to tell me that I am ignorant. That is called projecting. You are projecting onto me the characteristics you possess.

And when given the opportunity to learn from a professor, you turned your nose at it deciding that wallowing in ignorance was a better choice

I just do not know what to say to this. I know some really stupid professors. The word Professor does not make you an authority of the world, it makes you a specialist in a particular field. You need to redirect your worship of professors to God.
 
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