There is more then enough evidence to prove God exists.

[Awkward Fingers]

Lol.
"it's not a fallacy if I agree with it!!!"
That's a...unique outlook..
Not sure of the validity of that, though.

Unless you can prove it's "not fallacious" but I think if you do that, this thread would have been much shorter to begin with.

 

[Bunyip]

Serenity

You charge me with a belief I do not have. I believe in evolution 100% but I believe that we were placed here at a much later time, probably around the Cambrian explosion time. You indictment that my understanding of "basic principles" of evolution, suggest that I have two short plank disease, that is, I do not even have a basic understanding of evolution. I am not educated in the field but I do have an environmental engineering degree so it is more then a basic understanding, but, hey ho, I know the score.*

Dude, the Cambrian was 540 million years ago, the first mammals (humans are mammals) did not appear for another 220 million years and the first primates (humans are primates) did not appear for another 480 million years. Clearly you do not have even a basic understanding. Do not claim knowledge that you clearly do not have.

 

[Serenity7855]

Serenity



Dude, the Cambrian was 540 million years ago, the first mammals (humans are mammals) did not appear for another 220 million years and the first primates (humans are primates) did not appear for another 480 million years. Clearly you do not have even a basic understanding. Do not claim knowledge that you clearly do not have.

No, I am probably wrong but I did say that I am not educated in evolution, or at least the timeline of human evolution, that means you screwed it up a bit by saying I claimed knowledge when just a few posts back, I said the opposite. I would sooner be caught with a lack of knowledge then be caught in a lie. By a lack of knowledge you can put it right by learning but a lie is something that is always remembered.

I bet your little fingers were shaking trying to get that posted. Bless you.

 

[Serenity7855]

My issue here is not with what people believe or how many of them believe it. My issue is with the assertion that the consequences of an argument have any bearing on whether that argument is sound or not. It does not. Whether something is true or false is not dependent on whether it is beneficial or damaging to us. For example, saying that "nuclear war would be bad for us, therefore nuclear war can't happen" or "the ability to regrow lost limbs would be good for amputees therefore we can regrow lost limbs here and now" are both fallacious arguments because the conclusion does not follow.

Yes, but to say God lives is not a fallacious argument, unless you have evidence that shows he does not exist. Should we believe that he doesn't exist because 1.1 billion atheists say so.

 

[Parsimony]

Yes, but to say God lives is not a fallacious argument, unless you have evidence that shows he does not exist.

It's not fallacious to simply say that God exists. Nor do I wish to contest that.

Should we believe that he doesn't exist because 1.1 billion atheists say so.

No one should base their beliefs solely on the opinions of others.

 

[adi2d]

No, I am probably wrong but I did say that I am not educated in evolution, or at least the timeline of human evolution, that means you screwed it up a bit by saying I claimed knowledge when just a few posts back, I said the opposite. I would sooner be caught with a lack of knowledge then be caught in a lie. By a lack of knowledge you can put it right by learning but a lie is something that is always remembered.

I bet your little fingers were shaking trying to get that posted. Bless you.

A more reasonable response would have been - thanks buny. Thanks for the info. I learned something today

That is if you were at all open minded

 

[Bunyip]

No, I am probably wrong but I did say that I am not educated in evolution, or at least the timeline of human evolution, that means you screwed it up a bit by saying I claimed knowledge when just a few posts back, I said the opposite. I would sooner be caught with a lack of knowledge then be caught in a lie. By a lack of knowledge you can put it right by learning but a lie is something that is always remembered.

I bet your little fingers were shaking trying to get that posted. Bless you.

Buddy get a grip. I QUOTED YOU claiming to have 'more than a basic understanding'. Which you manifestly do not.

 

[Serenity7855]

A more reasonable response would have been - thanks buny. Thanks for the info. I learned something today

That is if you were at all open minded

I must look at my cup to see if it has mug written on it. Besides, why are you so concerned about my etiquette. It is not up for discussion at the moment.

 

[outhouse]

. Should we believe that he doesn't exist because 1.1 billion atheists say so.

No because man has a history of creating deities at will, a history as long as man has written language!

If writing went further back, we would have more evidence of exactly how man keeps creating deities. There is no dispute here. YOUR god was created form two deities.

Fact is, your the same as us, YOU DISCOUNT all these other deities to! and admit they are all creations of man.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I do not know why this principle does not sink in for you. Genuinely. You do not believe in what I believe in but you used what I believe in, completely ignoring the extenuating circumstances, to discredit what I believe in. That is weird and confrontational on its own because you are actually trying to tell the world that Christians believe in taking babies from their cots and then torturing them. You are telling the average Joe that Christians believe in a genocidal God who wilfully kills without reason. Kinda makes my opening remarks about atheists quite tame in comparison to the picture you, and the other anti-theists here, paint of murderous Christians.

What if you walk down the street, with your AK47 killing people who have just torn apart a baby and are in the process of eating it, then to walk a little further to kill some people raping and murdering little children, then a little further to see men setting fire to people using tyres filled with petrol around their necks and laugh it the struggling dying person, and finally, you kill two men raping screaming babies whilst sticking needles in their eyes to make them tense their muscles to heighten their sexual experience. Now that would be a better example of what was happening and a better reason for you to not even be in court because you would be praying to God to come and destroy these people.

Yet you maliciously try and create the illusion of our God destroying babes in arms rather than wicked and dispecable psychopathic uncontrollable poeple. Do you know what a psychopath is? The PCL describes psychopaths as being callous and showing a lack of empathy, traits which the PPI describes as “coldheartedness.” The criteria for dissocial personality disorder include a “callous unconcern for the feelings of others.” People killing and torturing others with a smile on their face, not caring about the calamity they cause. You, yes YOU, try to tell everyone you can that this is the evil character of the God we worship. How dishonest and evil is that? And you ask how I remain morally clean. But God has warned us of you when he said

Isaiah 5

20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

If you want to use words defined to win a point then I will try and stop you, why? Because it is dishonesty. Destroy and murder are not the same thing.

Destroy
[dih-stroi]
Submit
VERB (USED WITH OBJECT)

1.to reduce (an object) to useless fragments, a useless form, or remains, as by rending, burning, or dissolving; injure beyond repair or renewal; demolish; ruin; annihilate.

2.to put an end to; extinguish.

To destroy suggest that it is to be dismantled and used again. God made us and decided that it was wrong so he destroyed mankind and used them again. Murder is the permanent deprivation of life in mortality.

Nobody is painting this picture of Christians but yourself.

We're talking about YOUR views and beliefs here.

My mother considers herself a Christian and would never advocate the things you do. I'm fully aware that all Christians don't think like you do.

Who is calling good evil and evil good, other than yourself?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Serenity, whatever the reason, it would still be murder. If I walk into a prison and gun down everyone there I will be charged with murder, even if it makes me look like a good guy. I am not arguing that some people don't deserve to pay for their crimes, I am simply pointing out that your argument, that destroying someone is fine, when murder isn't, is morally bankrupt. If your God murdered, with good reason, he still murdered. That is all that is being argued here, nothing more. Also, you pointed out that babies were being tortured in the city, but then the city was destroyed. So....we aren't painting a picture of God torturing babies... YOU ARE!

Also, believe it or not, you aren't most Christians and the things you have argued for and against would be ridiculed, even in a Christian community, in my town.

:yes:

 

[SkepticThinker]

Let me say that in retrospect you are partially rights. Where I have put atheist I should have put anti-theist. I tried to change it but you cannot change the OP. I think you will find that the majority of remarks I make are in retaliation to the hostility of the anti-theist, however, nothing I have said equals, or comes anywhere near, the level of abuse that I have received at their figure tips. I, and other Christians like me, are regularly accused of worshipping a Genocidal, psychopathic murderer. That we, as believers, get on our knees and worship a God that kills babies. A God that drowns a planet. Of course they do not believe in those stories, they are Atheists, but they use them to beat Christians with specifically to upset and hurt Christians. That actually describes a psychopathic narcissist. So, I appreciate you concern, however, this is not a level playing field. I am kicking uphill not the atheists.

It actually does not.


I'm sorry but you are portraying yourself in a certain light when you do things like maintain that babies and children can be wicked and evil.

 

[outhouse]

maintain that babies and children can be wicked and evil.

Because my mythology says so!!!!!

 

[SkepticThinker]

Ahem ... Have you abandoned our discussion so quickly?

So, Moses had magical powers? Or what?

Oh wait, there’s more:

13 Moses answered the people, “Do not be afraid. Stand firm and you will see the deliverance the LORD will bring you today. The Egyptians you see today you will never see again. 14 The LORD will fight for you; you need only to be still.”
15 Then the LORD said to Moses, “Why are you crying out to me? Tell the Israelites to move on. 16 Raise your staff and stretch out your hand over the sea to divide the water so that the Israelites can go through the sea on dry ground. 17 I will harden the hearts of the Egyptians so that they will go in after them. And I will gain glory through Pharaoh and all his army, through his chariots and his horsemen. 18 The Egyptians will know that I am the LORD when I gain glory through Pharaoh, his chariots and his horsemen.”
19 Then the angel of God, who had been traveling in front of Israel’s army, withdrew and went behind them. The pillar of cloud also moved from in front and stood behind them, 20 coming between the armies of Egypt and Israel. Throughout the night the cloud brought darkness to the one side and light to the other side; so neither went near the other all night long.
21 Then Moses stretched out his hand over the sea, and all that night the LORD drove the sea back with a strong east wind and turned it into dry land. The waters were divided, 22 and the Israelites went through the sea on dry ground, with a wall of water on their right and on their left.

Would you like to answer the question again?


According to the Exodus account, Moses held out his staff and the Red sea was parted BY GOD.

How embarrassed are you?



Hmm, so Moses and the Red Sea is a literal story while this one is not. How are you making these distinctions? It sounds to me like you’re just making it up as you go along.

He ended up sacrificing a ram instead, so your goes does enjoy a good sacrifice.

I’d love to know why this is a moral story of any kind.

How about teaching the reader how to use their own ability to exercise morality?


Influencing by hardening their heart is different from intervening? How does that work?

I don’t see any mention of free agency.


Otherwise known as intervention.
People who pray for their mother’s cancer to be cured are looking for their mother’s cancer to be cured.

Okay so only “special” people get direct evidence of god. One or two out of billions. The rest of us schlubs have to go on faith alone?

Weren’t you saying earlier that you believe in demonic possession, because you seem to be contradicting that here.

What bigotry and bias are you referring to besides your own?

Which equates to – it didn’t happen. We don’t believe things until evidence against it is produced – it’s the other way around.

 

[Serenity7855]

It actually does not.


I'm sorry but you are portraying yourself in a certain light when you do things like maintain that babies and children can be wicked and evil.

Yes, but you do not believe in the same things as I do. I believe that a third of the host of heaven have been losses on earth to torment and influence mankind. A baby on its own merits cannot be evil but a baby possessed by an evil spirit can. I assumed that if you are going to debate against Christians then you would be aware of what they believe. Many have said that I do not have the same beliefs as others do but everything I believe is substantiated in scripture.

 

[adi2d]

I must look at my cup to see if it has mug written on it. Besides, why are you so concerned about my etiquette. It is not up for discussion at the moment.

Oh yes ,God forbid, that I would say anything off topic.

 

[Serenity7855]

No, that was not God that was the people who became wicked. Your not getting this are you. I am not trying to convert you, or anything, but you are looking for away for it to be wrong rather then trying to understand the Christian perspective.

I know that whenever anybody asks you to define a word that takes seconds to define on the internet, that they are setting a trap. But I knew when you asked the question that the word "murder" is only mentioned in the bible 80 and they all refer to Commandments not to murder. God said he will destroy mankind with the earth. He did not say he would murder them so you really should have asked me to define the word "destroy" and not an irrelevant word like "murder" for your trap to be effective. How do you intend getting out of this one and save face. The method you have used is dishonest and destructive to those who seek honest debate

Genesis 6

5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.

12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

Come back when it is knowledge that you genuinely seek and not that desire to embarrass and stupify. You do not seek truth, you seek to destroy the faith of Christians, in a dishonest manner. You are an anti-Christ, a anti-theist. Those other Christian here would do well to avoid you after reading this expose of your tactics.

Oh, it does not matter if 99% is knowledge and 1% is faith, faith is still involved and the allegory works because it still remains that you a using a degree of faith that the train will come in, which will be turned into 100% knowledge when it arrives. You have admitted that a very small amount is faith so you have confirmed my allegorically tale. Thank you

This is the answer to that post. It basically says that you are a fraud and I do not wish to exchange personal beliefs with someone whose motivated by ridiculing and discrediting someone's personal beliefs rather then to have a genuine interest it what makes them believe in what they believe. I am not here for the entertainment of the likes of you. Your discussions are artificial and confrontational. I have put you, Bunyip and Awkward Figures on my ignore list for this reason, a choice of contention over constructive debate. .

 

[Serenity7855]

Oh yes ,God forbid, that I would say anything off topic.

I am sure that it wasn't intentional, you are just bridging that line between genuinely interested debate and **** taking. Not a good trait to be labelled with.

 

[adi2d]

I am sure that it wasn't intentional, you are just bridging that line between genuinely interested debate and **** taking. Not a good trait to be labelled with.

Of course what I posted was intentional. I was,and still am, interested in a debate of the evidence you said you had in the OP. Your arrogance was rude and I felt the need to point it out.

I could not care less what label you put on me. Not even sure what "**** taking" is supposed to mean

 

[Serenity7855]

Of course what I posted was intentional. I was,and still am, interested in a debate of the evidence you said you had in the OP. Your arrogance was rude and I felt the need to point it out.

What arrogance do you refer to. Most say that I a humble and empathetic. Cannot please everyone one though. Ah well. The evidence, you probably missed it in favour of your next slur, I expect,

I could not care less what label you put on me. Not even sure what "**** taking" is supposed to mean

People rarely give other people labels, they normally make them themself.

That really does give explanation to much of your post. Thank you.