There is more then enough evidence to prove God exists.

[Serenity7855]

Correction.

We reside within a REPUBLIC.

We elect our chosen representatives (which we aspire might be more informed and enlightened than the rest of us, in that they may determine those that best whom we choose with informed consent within a "democratic" process of free and fair voting to dictate candidates that best reflect our most immediate concerns and daily values). Those that we elect as representatives (we hope) reflect and observe and seek to represent ALL of their constituents, not only those that received their votes,

In matters of combat in times of war, we hope that duly elected representatives are more informed, and the best leaders we can choose to make the best decisions for all, regardless of party or ideology.

Just to return to the point however, a "democracy" alone (group mentality) is rarely better than an assembled lynch mob by immediate consensus of uniformed, ignorant, or a fearful majority. This is a lousy way to choose a sheriff, a congressman, or especially, a President.

You mean that President George Bush was not selected by a lynch mob? He was elected, really. That is not how British people see it.

 

[Serenity7855]

This thread continues?

*face palm*

One might think, by now, you either "know" the correct answer, or you just text while driving, expecting to die badly very soon.

The great thing about living in the US is...

Whatever your beliefs about any "god" (or not) may be, I just really don't care.

Really. I don't care.

The very best "disproof" you are ever likely to encounter is "proof" that any claimed "god(s) are simply unnecessary to best explain nature and the cosmos as we see it today. OK?

No one seeks to deny you whatever you choose to believe.

NO ONE.

OK?

That is not true Richard Dawkins made it very clear that he intends to rid the planet of theists, as did Christopher Hitchens.

The idea of creating a thread such as this one was not to convince posters like you of anything, God forbid the recruitment of people like you into our religion, No, we do not want people like you.it was to cause lively debate, which is why we have debating forums. If you want to stamp your aggressive disbelief on Christians making them look stupid and inferior then surely you need to find a place that facilitates that action. This is a religious forum not an anti-theists training camp.

 

[Serenity7855]

If you say so.

Do you actually disagree with what he said?

If you do, would you be so kind as to point out where, why and to which extent?

That would be most clarifying.




In that case, you should have little problem showing why it is so.




Are we talking about this OP?

You don't think this is convincing, do you? It is a very partial, very biased post.

It was intended to provoke serious debate. It has succeeded. That is what we do on debating forums. We put up our biased and bigoted post to see what others think of them whilst we defend them. It is what makes debating enjoyable. What do you think we should do on a forum like this? Agree with each other and talk about recipes and planting flowers?

By insulting Serp777 you evidence the wisdom and accuracy of his claims.

By insulting Serp777? Are you for real? Have you read his post, or are you just an atheist putting his arm around another who is dying a terrible death by showing true colours. That has made my day "by insulting Serp777" it has to be the best display of showing a polar opposite. Well done.

I am not a member of any group, religious or otherwise. I am an individual with individual beliefs. I do not find security in groups, on the contrary, I am suspicious of groups. I believe in personal moral accountability. I do not see it as a gift as much as I see it as a responsibility. I see myself as a child of God so I will do whatever is necessary to Please my father. If that means that I should live a Christ centred life then that is what I will do. This Serp777 preaches contrary to my God. He tried to trap me then when he realised that he couldn't he insulted me, my religion and my God. These kind of Atheists have character traits that always surface and are always the same rhetorical garbage. They are actively in pursuit of destroying religion and all that it stands for. I am here to defend the plan of salvation and all that it stands for. That is "defend" not "preach" I am not an evangelist. This topic genuinely intrigues me and I have learned from it and changed my opinion on some of it. I am a benefactor of this thread. I am sorry to hear that you are not.

Oh, Serp777, member of a group, but the one who needs that group more then anyone - Outhouse.

 

[LuisDantas]

I take it that you haven't read other threads. Or this one.

 

[ScuzManiac]

That is not true Richard Dawkins made it very clear that he intends to rid the planet of theists, as did Christopher Hitchens.

The idea of creating a thread such as this one was not to convince posters like you of anything, God forbid the recruitment of people like you into our religion, No, we do not want people like you.it was to cause lively debate, which is why we have debating forums. If you want to stamp your aggressive disbelief on Christians making them look stupid and inferior then surely you need to find a place that facilitates that action. This is a religious forum not an anti-theists training camp.

Where/when did Richard Dawkins make this very clear?

Would just be nice to have a source...

Because here's a quote from a video tape I found by Dawkins:

"Do we, in fact, wish to see a world without faith? I think I would have to say that I don’t. I don’t either expect to, or wish to, see that…"

 

[Serenity7855]

Where/when did Richard Dawkins make this very clear?

Would just be nice to have a source...

Because here's a quote from a video tape I found by Dawkins:

"Do we, in fact, wish to see a world without faith? I think I would have to say that I don’t. I don’t either expect to, or wish to, see that…"

Following the opening of their documentary The Unbelievers, outspoken atheists Richard Dawkins and Lawrence Krauss discussed the merits of their approaches to “ridding the world of religion.”

Following the April 29 opening of their documentary The Unbelievers at Toronto’s Hot Docs Film Festival, outspoken atheists Richard Dawkins and Lawrence Krauss discussed the merits of their approaches to “ridding the world of religion.” In a recent interview with Steve Paikin,1 they made it clear that, despite their sometimes different personas, they have the same agenda—getting people to get rid of their belief in God. Yet they both say that Christians should not feel “threatened” by their efforts to expunge religion from human history.

The Unbelievers
Outspoken atheists Lawrence Krauss and Richard Dawkins, costars of the documentary The Unbelievers, discuss their strategy for ridding the world of religion in general and Christianity in particular. They consider Christianity “demeaning” and wish to re-design society “the way we want it.” Image: screen shots from interview with Steve Paikin on Rise of the New Atheists? | TVO

https://answersingenesis.org/reviews/tv/the-unbelievers-plan-to-rid-the-world-of-god/

But the final end of humanity’s destiny is not the end prophesied by Dawkins and Krauss, for the same Jesus Christ that rose from the dead will indeed come again (Revelation 22:20). Dawkins and Krauss may be leading the charge to eradicate Christianity, but it is the Lord Jesus Christ who will surely have the last word.

 

[Serenity7855]

I take it that you haven't read other threads. Or this one.

If you are addressing me, which is not clear, why do you take it that I haven't read other threads? Or this one.

 

[Sapiens]

To claim it's 'proof' or 'debunked' is tantamount to admitting that you truly don't have a clue as to what you're talking about.

Hardly, there are many things that have been falsified over the years, and falsification is tantamount to debunking or proving wrong. It is the way science works.

 

[serp777]

If this ain't the words a psychopathic narcissistic anti-theists then I will eat my hat. It is a very good description of an angry and aggressive atheist, twisted to make it fit, badly, onto theists. Words that clearly confirm the hatred felt by the very Seasoned Newby here who has a ring of familiarity to him. Surely no one can now complain about the words of the OP, and there description of the nasty atheists, after having read this drivel. It does the cause of decent atheists no favours by having fellow members of their group talk such rot.

Well you're going to have to eat your hat then. I hope it tastes better than the taste your argument leaves.

You're the one who seems very angry; i am merely making statements. This debate has no emotional content for me--contrary to the way you're responding. You sound threatened, but hurt, and insulted.

Now you are a hypocrite too. before you were complaining about all these atheists who insult you, and here you are, slinging your own retorts as if my alleged insults give you some justification in being a hypocrite. Then you make the ridiculous argument that my relatively few posts on this particular forum gives my arguments less credibility, simply because of that? It merely reflects your own ignorance and use of fallacies.

" talk such rot."
And we have you ruining the reputation of reasonable Christians by spouting your mumbo jumbo, pseudo science, and of course strawman arguments.

 

[Bunyip]

Well you're going to have to eat your hat then. I hope it tastes better than the taste your argument leaves.

You're the one who seems very angry; i am merely making statements. This debate has no emotional content for me--contrary to the way you're responding. You sound threatened, but hurt, and insulted.

Now you are a hypocrite too. before you were complaining about all these atheists who insult you, and here you are, slinging your own retorts as if my alleged insults give you some justification in being a hypocrite. Then you make the ridiculous argument that my relatively few posts on this particular forum gives my arguments less credibility, simply because of that? It merely reflects your own ignorance and use of fallacies.

" talk such rot."
And we have you ruining the reputation of reasonable Christians by spouting your mumbo jumbo, pseudo science, and of course strawman arguments.

Read the entire thread - what happened to you is what everybody else got. Every person who has come here to try to honestly and politely debate Serenity has been rewarded with nothing more than insults. He started the OP with insults and insulting generalisations, and whenever anyone attempted to debate, they got called nasty degenerate anti-theists etc etc etc. So far he has not even attempted to argue any of his points, you either swallow them whole or are a nasty brain dead militant theist.

Serenity is in every case both the first and the last to throw insults.

 

[serp777]

It was intended to provoke serious debate. It has succeeded. That is what we do on debating forums. We put up our biased and bigoted post to see what others think of them whilst we defend them. It is what makes debating enjoyable. What do you think we should do on a forum like this? Agree with each other and talk about recipes and planting flowers?



By insulting Serp777? Are you for real? Have you read his post, or are you just an atheist putting his arm around another who is dying a terrible death by showing true colours. That has made my day "by insulting Serp777" it has to be the best display of showing a polar opposite. Well done.

I am not a member of any group, religious or otherwise. I am an individual with individual beliefs. I do not find security in groups, on the contrary, I am suspicious of groups. I believe in personal moral accountability. I do not see it as a gift as much as I see it as a responsibility. I see myself as a child of God so I will do whatever is necessary to Please my father. If that means that I should live a Christ centred life then that is what I will do. This Serp777 preaches contrary to my God. He tried to trap me then when he realised that he couldn't he insulted me, my religion and my God. These kind of Atheists have character traits that always surface and are always the same rhetorical garbage. They are actively in pursuit of destroying religion and all that it stands for. I am here to defend the plan of salvation and all that it stands for. That is "defend" not "preach" I am not an evangelist. This topic genuinely intrigues me and I have learned from it and changed my opinion on some of it. I am a benefactor of this thread. I am sorry to hear that you are not.

Oh, Serp777, member of a group, but the one who needs that group more then anyone - Outhouse.

Most of this is just meaningless complaining about strawmans of my argument.

" I do not find security in groups, on the contrary, I am suspicious of groups"

Except for groups regarding your own religion.

"This Serp777 preaches contrary to my God"
Calling it your God is probably insulting your alleged God. The fact that you think an omnipotent being cares about your existence is arrogant. Don't worry, take respite, God made this entire universe and existence, plus five billion years of evolution, just so we could be having this debate about religion and so that you could pray to Jesus and become a Christian. Wow you figured it out.



"He tried to trap me then when he realised that he couldn't he insulted me"
A meaningless allegation. He does not show quotes, nor provides any justification for this scenario. This is a baseless claim, which is meant to deflect from the fact that my arguments became too challenging to deal with.

"I believe in personal moral accountability."
Oh, and who/what gives you your morals? The old testament? Your own interpretation of a book from bronze age palestine? So i guess you're the moral authority on religion now, who knows how to instill moral accountability in himself.

"dying a terrible death by showing true colours. That has made my day "by insulting Serp777" it has to be the best display of showing a polar opposite. Well done."
You have to be the biggest hypocrite. You complained about my alleged insults, and then proceeded to insult me, not that i'm offended, since I'm more resilient than you. And dying a terrible death? What in God's name are you talking about?

 

[serp777]

Read the entire thread - what happened to you is what everybody else got. Every person who has come here to try to honestly and politely debate Serenity has been rewarded with nothing more than insults. He started the OP with insults and insulting generalisations, and whenever anyone attempted to debate, they got called nasty degenerate anti-theists etc etc etc. So far he has not even attempted to argue any of his points, you either swallow them whole or are a nasty brain dead militant theist.

Serenity is in every case both the first and the last to throw insults.

Yeah that was my mistake; can't believe i did not notice that. I guess every reasonable thinker is now a nasty degenerate atheist? And I guess God made us nasty degenerate atheists so we could test Serenity's faith, for some unknown pointless reason? Actually i'm not even an athiest; i'm an agnostic since I don't claim to know what I cannot know lol.

It seems that as soon as you start questioning his faith remotely, he gets extremely insulted and goes on to hypocritically produce his own insults. That's a very common pattern.

I guess if we are militant athiests, then he is a Christian crusader, right?

 

[Bunyip]

Yeah that was my mistake; can't believe i did not notice that. I guess every reasonable thinker is now a nasty degenerate atheist? And I guess God made us nasty degenerate atheists so we could test Serenity's faith, for some unknown pointless reason? Actually i'm not even an athiest; i'm an agnostic since I don't claim to know what I cannot know lol.

It seems that as soon as you start questioning his faith remotely, he gets extremely insulted and goes on to hypocritically produce his own insults. That's a very common pattern.

I guess if we are militant athiests, then he is a Christian crusader, right?

With friends like that to speak for him, Jesus needs no enemies.

 

[Serenity7855]

Well you're going to have to eat your hat then. I hope it tastes better than the taste your argument leaves.

I do not like eating hats, so I said it, with a reasonable amount of certainty, that I wouldn't have to.

You're the one who seems very angry; i am merely making statements. This debate has no emotional content for me--contrary to the way you're responding. You sound threatened, but hurt, and insulted.

No, you are very much mistaken. I do not get angry. Why would I? That people like you try and discredit my belief, no, the bible has pre-warned me about people like you. It is comforting to know that I have chosen the right. Threatened? By what? Words? Hurt? By whom. I do not know you and I certainly recognise you are intellectual inert, so hurt is a ridiculous assumption. Insulted, I do not feel Insulted I feel vindicated that my analysis of the aggressive atheists is correct born out in his need to insult when all else fails. So, pretty much a load of erroneous drivel.

Now you are a hypocrite too. before you were complaining about all these atheists who insult you, and here you are, slinging your own retorts as if my alleged insults give you some justification in being a hypocrite. Then you make the ridiculous argument that my relatively few posts on this particular forum gives my arguments less credibility, simply because of that? It merely reflects your own ignorance and use of fallacies.

I am not complaining about insults, I am pointing them out for any reasonable reader to see, after which I usually request we stick with the topic and not my idiosyncracies. Atheist love a good argumentum ad hominem. I am not excusing myself of retaliation either. Call me an idiot and I will call you a fool. If you cannot take it, like you seem not to, then don't give it in the first place and then call me a hypocrite when I respond to your personal post attacking me instead of debating the topic.

" talk such rot."
And we have you ruining the reputation of reasonable Christians by spouting your mumbo jumbo, pseudo science, and of course strawman arguments.

Your word of the day is it "strawman"?

 

[ScuzManiac]

I do not like eating hats, so I said it, with a reasonable amount of certainty, that I wouldn't have to.

You may not eat hats but you do realize that gluttony is a deadly sin, right?

:yes:

Not saying you're big or anything...

 

[Serenity7855]

Most of this is just meaningless complaining about strawmans of my argument.

Well, yes, of course it is because you are not reading it for comprehension. It is your name for the day, isn't it, Strawman

" I do not find security in groups, on the contrary, I am suspicious of groups"

Except for groups regarding your own religion.

No

"This Serp777 preaches contrary to my God"
Calling it your God is probably insulting your alleged God. The fact that you think an omnipotent being cares about your existence is arrogant. Don't worry, take respite, God made this entire universe and existence, plus five billion years of evolution, just so we could be having this debate about religion and so that you could pray to Jesus and become a Christian. Wow you figured it out.

God loves us all, even the individual birds in the air does he care for. That you do not understand that shows another argumentum ad ignorantiam

And yet another argumentum ad ignorantiam. 5 billion years? Is that what you think. And you call me a pseudo scientist then say we have been evolving for 5 billion years. Just about says it all, doesn't it?

You think that our purpose in life is to be debating here, really?

Another argumentum ad ignorantiam. You think that all you have to do is pray to Jesus to become a Christian? It is not a necessity to receive a personal testimony then. Oh my word, you do not have a clue what Christianity is about yet you try to debate it.

"He tried to trap me then when he realised that he couldn't he insulted me"
A meaningless allegation. He does not show quotes, nor provides any justification for this scenario. This is a baseless claim, which is meant to deflect from the fact that my arguments became too challenging to deal with.

Neither do you. Your post is full of false accusations without a single quote that corroborates your "shaky" words. I have just demonstrated three argumentum ad ignorantiams of yours to you.

Your challenges became to aggressive for me to respond seriously. Atheists do this all the time, regardless of venue, when you do not agree with them they get aggressive and insulting, after which they stamp their feet in a tantrum and before you know it all of the toys come flying out of the prams, that defines a narcissist.

"I believe in personal moral accountability."
Oh, and who/what gives you your morals? The old testament? Your own interpretation of a book from bronze age palestine? So i guess you're the moral authority on religion now, who knows how to instill moral accountability in himself.

Another argumentum ad ignorantiam. The old testament is a record of a people who lived under a preparatory law, the Mosaic Law. When Christ came he changed it in the beatitudes to the Abrahamic Covenant, the law of accountability. The Mosaic Law had been fulfilled.

"who knows how to instill moral accountability in himself". The man who knows the law and follows Christ.

"dying a terrible death by showing true colours. That has made my day "by insulting Serp777" it has to be the best display of showing a polar opposite. Well done."
You have to be the biggest hypocrite. You complained about my alleged insults, and then proceeded to insult me, not that i'm offended, since I'm more resilient than you. And dying a terrible death? What in God's name are you talking about?

Not true, again. I am complaining that you have derailed the thread with your insults. It is what atheists do to stifle debate and prevent good, open and honest debate. Better to halt the debate then to be proven wrong by it.

 

[Serenity7855]

You may not eat hats but you do realize that gluttony is a deadly sin, right?

:yes:

Not saying you're big or anything...

I would.

Did you see the link I left you on Richard Dawkins and his desire to rid the world of religion?

 

[ScuzManiac]

I would.

Did you see the link I left you on Richard Dawkins and his desire to rid the world of religion?

Yep.

:clap

And you would what?

 

[Serenity7855]

Yep.

:clap

And you would what?

Say that I am big. I am, and I should do something about it.

 

[ScuzManiac]

Say that I am big. I am, and I should do something about it.

So, you talk about all these bad things that Atheists supposedly do....

Yet you commit one of the 7 Deadly Sins on a daily basis?