There is more then enough evidence to prove God exists.

[viole]

What did you expect God to do with all those devil possessed babies?.

What about killng or removing the possessing devil only?

That seems to be well within the possibilities of an almighty God. Unless He prefers to thow away the baby with the bathwater, so to speak (pun intended).

Ciao

- viole

 

[Serenity7855]

Serenity no one has said they are against Theism or think its destructive. One of your problems is you keep bundling all these hateful comments together and naming them as characteristics of anti theists (previously just militant atheists) and then you go about calling everyone an anti theist with no regard to what they actually believe.

You are talking about trivialities in nomiclatures instead of the main cause of this rivalry between atheists, anti-theists, anti-christs or militant atheist and theists. The incessant need to dismantle the beliefs of a religion for no other reason that the thrill of upsetting people. Now, if I called you a anti-theist then that was my error. I do not consider you or Magic Man to be aggressive and angry atheists. But I have been debating with these kind of people for years. I have a catalogue of the underhanded trickery and abuse they dish out to posters at every opportunity. The creation, the flood, leviticus and it's prawns, the resurrection, evolution, homosexuality and gay marriage, morality, free agency, Kalams cosmological argument and fine tuning. All strong points of religion that these kind of atheist share with each other specifically to denigrate Christians, so, when people come along with answers to all these anomalies they become extremely agitated, that is what you are seeing here.

Look, I really do not mind posts like this. It gives me fodder to chew on and makes me think. I do not know how to resolve the nomenclature because it is a certain group within a group. Maybe angry atheists would segregate them from atheists, however, that sort of describes an excuse for their behavior. There is no excuse. Please take a closure look at "serp777" post since joining, not just to me but to a couple of nice Christians here. Look at how he tries to manipulate me by drawing on my good nature in response to his polite post. Then see what happened when he looses it and unleashes unbridled rage at me. I can take it but it is the disappointment in realising that there are not many exceptions.

I have seen many posts, and I can paste them, when someone is arguing JUST on what you are saying and you label them in a negative light. You then post saying how people shouldn't do that.

I'm not saying that people haven't been rude to you at all on this page, but the people who have, you have labeled anti theists, to then be rude right to those people, and say things like

What I have said is intended to expose there aggressive behaviour in an attempt to stop it happened again and to anyone else. So, in the process I called them some names but I figure it is fair exchange for their behaviour.

you have painted yourself as the anti theist you seem to hate. You really do get what you give. I'd also make note that you labeled me an anti theist about half way through this thread and I am 100% not. Good and bad things can come from Religion. Some religions seem to cause more harm than others like in the case of Muslims vs Buddhists, but it doesn't mean I think no good comes from religion

Let me put one thing straight. I hate nobody, I love everybody. During the course of my day I never murmur an angry word and nobody does it to me. I only ever fall out with people on forums. The strange thing is that these people should be minding their own business. What religious people do is nothing to do with them, provided it is safe and within the law. They are encroaching on our territory here. Religion is our arena, you would have that that if they genuinely wanted to know what makes us tick then they would be more courteous and polite. People would relinquish the information more readily and honestly if they did, which suggests that they enjoy the confrontation.

 

[AlphaAlex115]

I'm not sure how you figured out those odds, but let's say you're right. We are one planet revolving around one star in a universe that contains millions of trillions of stars. Even if the odds are 1 in 100 quadrillion that a planet would form the exact right conditions to sustain advanced life, that still means it would happen fairly often in a universe with over a quintillion planets.

You're wrong. Life needs so many different factors to be sustained. .. probability doesn't really come into it..

 

[Serenity7855]

I'm not sure how you figured out those odds, but let's say you're right. We are one planet revolving around one star in a universe that contains millions of trillions of stars. Even if the odds are 1 in 100 quadrillion that a planet would form the exact right conditions to sustain advanced life, that still means it would happen fairly often in a universe with over a quintillion planets.

Yes, I believe you are right.

A little lite reading for you. A bit long but very interesting.

What Are The Odds?

What are the chances that this creation developed into the detail and harmony we see and need for life to continue on earth as it is today? Evolutionists claim that it all just happened by chance. The evolutionist, progressive creationist, theistic evolutionist, gap theorist, or whatever other name you might place upon theory suggests that a primordial soup existed with just the right conditions and by chance the first building blocks for life appeared. Some of these believe that God placed the first building blocks for life into the soup and then sat back and watched the chance evolution take place.

So what about this chance, could it have all happened by chance.

In my pocket I have 10 quarters numbered one through ten. Of these quarters, They are all exactly the same to the touch. The numbers written upon them can not be felt. There are no distinctive blemishes. As much as possible they are exactly the same.

What are the odds or chances that I can reach into my pocket and pull out the coin numbered one on the first try?

The odds of my pulling out each quarter in order one after the other, placing the preceding coin back into my pocket after drawing it out will help you to understand the odds of our world evolving through the processes of evolution.

1. The Quarter Numbered 1, 1 in 10 – The Earth’s Rotation

Consider the Rotation of the Earth. And as you do I reach into my pocket to pull out coin number one, a 1 in 10 chance that I will pull out the right coin the first time. What coin did I grasp this time?

a. 1000 Miles per hour at the Equator - The circumference of the Earth at the equator is 25,000 miles. The Earth rotates in about 24 hours. Therefore, if you were to hang above the surface of the Earth at the equator without moving, you would see 25,000 miles pass by in 24 hours, at a speed of 25000/24 or just over 1000 miles per hour. - http://imagine.gsfc....rs/970401c.html

b. The earths slowing rotation – According to a NASA scientist. Astronomers can measure this very precisely now that they have atomic clocks to provide a non-celestial time standard for comparison. The length of the day is increasing by 0.0015 seconds every century, of which about 0.0007 seconds per century has to do with the tidal breaking of the Moon. As a result of this, the Moon's orbit must also increase so that the

Moon is slowly getting farther and farther from the Earth by a few centimeters per year or so ( my estimate!). As this process continues, it is predicted that in billions of years the lunar month will increase to about 47 days from its current 27.3 days. But by that time, the Sun itself will have begun to evolve into a red giant, which will upset the Earth-Moon system somewhat; especially if they are both engulfed by the Sun's expanding atmosphere! - http://image.gsfc.na...y/ask/q396.html

(1) Talk about needing more time – In my feeble, untrained mathematical equation, I calculated that if this decreasing speed remained consistent over the estimated 4.5 billion years of the earth existence then 4.5 billion years ago a day would have lasted only 5.25 hours.

c. Catastrophic Changes – According to a NASA website a change in the rotation axis of the Earth, or its spin rate would be catastrophic. The number of the seasons would change and their duration. If the rotation axis became parallel to the orbital plane, as for Uranus, we could have winter in the Northern hemisphere for 6 months followed by summer. The Sun would set on the entire Northern hemisphere and not rise again for 6 months. Less extreme axial tilts would produce a different pattern of seasons at each earth latitude.

Growing seasons and all of the natural cycles of the biosphere would be catastrophically affected, and if the change happened in a year or so, no living things, especially plants, would survive unmolested. There would not be enough time for plants to genetically alter their growing cycles. Large diebacks of plant ecosystems would occur followed by the animals that feed on the plants, and then the carnivores...etc etc. -

http://image.gsfc.na...y/ask/q278.html

2. The Quarter Numbered 2, 1 in 100 (Job 26.7) [– The Earth’s Axis – The earth sits on a tilt angle of 23 degrees 27 minutes which is approximately 23.45 degrees. www.newton.dep.anl.gov/asasci/env99/env154.htm

a. The Earth's rotation axis is not perpendicular to the plane in which it orbits the Sun. It's offset by 23.5 degrees. This tilt, or obliquity, explains why we have seasons and why places above the Arctic Circle have 24-hour darkness in winter and constant sunlight in the summer. But the angle is not constant - it is currently decreasing from a maximum of 24 degrees towards a minimum of 22.5 degrees. This variation goes in a 40,000-year cycle. http://www.livescien...earth_tilt.html

b. This wabble in the earth’s axis represents less than a 1% shift in the earth’s axis. It has been suggested that if the earth were to shift its axis by a mere 5% that life as we know it on earth would be greatly affected and changed.

c. What are the chances that the earth would have just, by chance, sat at the 23.45 degree axis that now nurtures our existent upon its surface. Certainly far greater than the chance of my pulling out coin number 2 from my pocket, immediately following puling out coin number 1 and then replacing it in my pocket.

3. The Quarter Numbered 3, 1 in 1,000 – The Earth’s Atmosphere – The Earth’s Atmosphere is a thin layer of gasses that keeps our planet from freezing and protects us from harmful solar radiation.

a. Our atmosphere. Our atmosphere helps keep heat in (by absorbing some of the radiation re-radiated by the Earth), so you need a correction factor to our albedo. Without our thin layer of air, the surface temperature of the Earth would rapidly drop, freezing the oceans solid. This is called a "greenhouse effect", and is a very real occurrence. It's when things get out of control that you get a runaway greenhouse effect. Note also that the temperature on the surface of Venus should be about -20 Celsius (distance=1.1 x 1013 centimeters, albedo=0.65; although it's closer to the Sun its albedo is higher, so it should have about the same temperature as the Earth), but is actually in excess of 500 Celsius (over 900 Fahrenheit!). Should you worry about runaway greenhouse effect? Take a look at our closest neighbor. You tell me.

[http://www.badastron...c/seasons.html]

b. Our atmosphere brings into light the many elements required to for an atmosphere just like our. Our atmosphere:

(1) Protects us for harmful radiation form our sun and space.

(2) Provides greenhouse effects that protect us from extreme heat and cold

(3) Provide oxygen for us to breath

c. These are a few of the more obvious factors surrounding our atmosphere. There is just as much chance that our atmosphere could have been caustic and harmful to life rather than supportive and nurturing to life.

Clearly the chances of our atmosphere developing into the nurturing atmosphere we enjoy are far greater than my reaching into my pocket and pulling out coin number 3 immediately following coin number 2, having place coin 2 back in my pocket. A 1 in 1,000 chance.

4. The Quarter Numbered 4, a 1 in 10,000– The Distance of the Earth away from the Sun - The Earth is 92,955,820.5 miles (149,597,892 kilometers).

a. Using trigonometry, astronomers now know that the “Astronomical Unit” = 92,955,820.5 miles (149,597,892 kilometers). This incredible degree of accuracy is possible because the speed of light is known very precisely and extremely accurate clocks are used to time the radar reflection. Radar can’t be used to determine the distance to the Sun directly because the Sun doesn’t have a solid surface to reflect the radar efficiently. http://www.astro-tom...un_distance.htm

b. It just so happens that scientists believe that the earth is positioned right on the inner margin of the region surrounding our sun that is capable of supporting life upon a planet the size of the earth. If the earth were to change its orbit by just a small percent of its distance from the sun, and were to move closer to the sun then the earth would no longer be an inhabitable planet.

c. What are the chances that the earth would be perfectly positioned in what our scientist have come to call the life supporting region of our solar system. Certainly far greater than the odds of my pulling coin number 4 out of my pocket immediately following coin number 3, having place coin number 3 back in my pocket. A 1 in 10,000 chance.

 

[Serenity7855]

5. The Quarter Numbered 5, a 1 in 100,000 chance of pulling it out in proper order the first time – The Moon’s Orbit – The Moon’s orbit affects the tides in the oceans and our atmosphere.

a. The average distance between the Earth and the Moon is 238,900 or about 240,000 miles. http://www.guam.net/...caleemprint.htm

b. One web page stated that the moon was a major contributor in the process of evolution, and claimed that without the moon evolution would have been entirely impossible.

c. So Just what are the chances of the moon just taking up its orbit and position around our earth, and just the right distance to create just the right conditions to possibly produce life and clearly to help sustain life on our earth? Clearly more than the possibility of my pulling out coin number 5, immediately following placing coins number 4 back in my pocket. A 1 in 100,000 chance.

6. The Quarter Numbered 6, a 1 in 1,000,000 – The Temperature of the Sun

a. The mean surface temperature of the Sun is 5506°C (9944°F). The mean core temperature of the Sun is 15,000,000°C(27,000,032°F). according to Ask.com - What's Your Question?

b. For the sun to be at the stage in its development and in the scientific stages of a star at just the right time for life to be generated and sustained upon this planet we call home would be a far greater miracle than the odds of my pulling coin six out of my pocket. A 1 in 1,000,000 chance.

7. The Quarter Numbered 7, 1 in 10,000,000 [– The Earth’s Magnetic Fields – There is more scientific debate about the earth’s magnetic fields then one can read in a weeks time. It seems that everyone who writes about the magnetic fields has something else to add to the argument.

a. The Earth’s magnetic fields are depleting at a measurable and predictable rate. Modern measuring instruments and atomic clocks have made it possible to determine that these fields are depleting with such accuracy that clocks can be set accurately through the measurement of these fields.

b. Hence many of the multitudes of Creation Scientist such as Henry Morris and the associated scientist with Answers in Genesis have determined that the earth would have been incapable of supporting life a mere 30,000 years ago for the magnetic storms that would have been produced by the powerful magnetic fields.

8. The Quarter Numbered 8, 1 in 100,000,000 – The core of the earth which is molten magma spinning, turning and mixing beneath us, yet not melting away the mantle or the crust of the earth and still developing just the right environment to cause a dead planet to come to life by causing waters to flow beneath us and various elements to interact. What are the chances of the core developing in such a way as to produce or support life on earth.

9. The Quarter Numbered 9, 1 in 1,000,000,000 – Water to form the oceans and it being of such a consistency so as to produce and support life on earth. There is evidence of water on Mars, identified by the obvious erosion marks on the face of the planet however the conditions of the planet do not allow for surface water nor water that can support continuing life.

10. The Quarter Numbered 10, 1 in 10,000,000,000 – For the earth to have land masses with all of the ingredients in place to produce and support life. For the soil to be of just the proper ph level so that it is nurturing to life rather than toxic to life. Actually, each individual ingredient that comes together to form a fertile soil should probably be accounted as a separate and individual chance, hence the chance of each element forming and then for those elements to be mixed exactly right for that which we call earth would add hundreds or even thousands of quarters to our collection dramatically increasing the impossible odds of spontaneous life by mere chance.

11. Unimaginable odds, a mere 20 elements – What if I were to merely double the number of quarters in my pocket to 20. Then the odds of actually pulling all twenty of those quarters out of my pocket in proper order would be 1 in 1020, that is, 1:100,000,000,000,000,000,000

This is no different than the odds of having a mere twenty essential elements for the creation and support of life on earth. As we consider the cosmos, our environment, our world, our bodies, and all that is necessary for to nuture life on earth on must quickly realize that there are hundreds, thousands, maybe even millions of variables that must all be in place, all the time, in order for life to continue as we know it.

It seems equally obvious that for life in any form, even if we were to try and conceive of life in some other type of environment the odds of the elements necessary in some other unique environment supporting life are equally incredible. Hence, the claim that some how, just by sheer chance all that was necessary to develop and maintain life is no chance at all. It just could not have happened by chance.

B. What is the Obvious? – In this message I have but list ten mere necessities for the support of life on earth, and these ten are the most basic and obvious needs. If we were to begin to add the other multitudes of interactions and absolute requirements to support life on earth we would multiply the odds by billions of quarters added to our collection, but we are already exceeding any reasonable limit for the mere chance of the spontaneous production and support of life on earth. We have not touched on the necessity of oxygen, carbon dioxide, the miracle of photo synthesis, the presence of the suns warming radiation at just the right levels, the evaporation of the waters to form the clouds and wash our atmosphere with rain. We could go on and on and on and yet the well educated still wish to proclaim that it all happened by mere and impossible chance.

 

[Serenity7855]

What about killng or removing the possessing devil only?

That seems to be well within the possibilities of an almighty God. Unless He prefers to thow away the baby with the bathwater, so to speak (pun intended).

Ciao

- viole

God cannot intervene. You can also not kill a spirit, as a devil is. It is eternal in nature. There would be thousands of babies dying of starvation instead of safe in heaven. Which would you choose.

 

[outhouse]

God cannot intervene. .

Correct.

And no where has he ever been observed doing anything for anyone.

Same goes for nature, not one aspect of any part of nature, can be attributed to the concept.


Its just like he was a mythical and lived in peoples imagination.

 

[Parsimony]

God cannot intervene. You can also not kill a spirit, as a devil is. It is eternal in nature. There would be thousands of babies dying of starvation instead of safe in heaven. Which would you choose.

How does that count as an intervention that would threaten free will? By that reasoning, exorcisms can never work because God is not allowed to intervene to cast the demons out.

b. Hence many of the multitudes of Creation Scientist such as Henry Morris and the associated scientist with Answers in Genesis have determined that the earth would have been incapable of supporting life a mere 30,000 years ago for the magnetic storms that would have been produced by the powerful magnetic fields.

I thought you said that you believed in evolution 100%? Yet you don't think life existed on Earth 30,000 years ago? How does that work?

 

[SkepticThinker]

God cannot intervene. You can also not kill a spirit, as a devil is. It is eternal in nature. There would be thousands of babies dying of starvation instead of safe in heaven. Which would you choose.

I'm wondering what makes you think god cannot intervene when the Bible states the opposite.

I'm also wondering how you know that demons and devils exist and how you know they are eternal in nature.

You make a lot of claims without much to back them up.

 

[Serenity7855]

I'm not sure how you figured out those odds, but let's say you're right. We are one planet revolving around one star in a universe that contains millions of trillions of stars. Even if the odds are 1 in 100 quadrillion that a planet would form the exact right conditions to sustain advanced life, that still means it would happen fairly often in a universe with over a quintillion planets.

Another for you.

A Statistical Monstrosity

“The President of the New York Scientific Society, as recorded in the "Readers' Digest," gave eight reasons why he believed there was a God. The first one was this. Take ten identical coins and mark them one to ten, place them in your pocket, and take one out, there is one chance in ten that you will get number one. Now replace it, and the chances that number two will follow number one are not one in ten, but one in one hundred, and so on, counting ten each time, so that the chances of number ten following number nine are one chance in 10,000,000,000 (ten thousand million). It seemed so unbelievable to me that I immediately took pencil and paper and very quickly discovered he was right. Try it yourself.

That is why George Gallup, the American statistician says: "I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone - chance that all the functions of the individual would just happen is a statistical monstrosity."

Surely no thoughtful person would wish to base his eternal future on a "statistical monstrosity." Perhaps that is why the Bible says in Psalm 14:1 "The fool hath said in his heart there is no God." (The Reason Why by R.A. Laidlaw)

 

[SkepticThinker]

You are talking about trivialities in nomiclatures instead of the main cause of this rivalry between atheists, anti-theists, anti-christs or militant atheist and theists. The incessant need to dismantle the beliefs of a religion for no other reason that the thrill of upsetting people. Now, if I called you a anti-theist then that was my error. I do not consider you or Magic Man to be aggressive and angry atheists. But I have been debating with these kind of people for years. I have a catalogue of the underhanded trickery and abuse they dish out to posters at every opportunity. The creation, the flood, leviticus and it's prawns, the resurrection, evolution, homosexuality and gay marriage, morality, free agency, Kalams cosmological argument and fine tuning. All strong points of religion that these kind of atheist share with each other specifically to denigrate Christians, so, when people come along with answers to all these anomalies they become extremely agitated, that is what you are seeing here.

Look, I really do not mind posts like this. It gives me fodder to chew on and makes me think. I do not know how to resolve the nomenclature because it is a certain group within a group. Maybe angry atheists would segregate them from atheists, however, that sort of describes an excuse for their behavior. There is no excuse. Please take a closure look at "serp777" post since joining, not just to me but to a couple of nice Christians here. Look at how he tries to manipulate me by drawing on my good nature in response to his polite post. Then see what happened when he looses it and unleashes unbridled rage at me. I can take it but it is the disappointment in realising that there are not many exceptions.



What I have said is intended to expose there aggressive behaviour in an attempt to stop it happened again and to anyone else. So, in the process I called them some names but I figure it is fair exchange for their behaviour.



Let me put one thing straight. I hate nobody, I love everybody. During the course of my day I never murmur an angry word and nobody does it to me. I only ever fall out with people on forums. The strange thing is that these people should be minding their own business. What religious people do is nothing to do with them, provided it is safe and within the law. They are encroaching on our territory here. Religion is our arena, you would have that that if they genuinely wanted to know what makes us tick then they would be more courteous and polite. People would relinquish the information more readily and honestly if they did, which suggests that they enjoy the confrontation.

Maybe you're the one who shouldn't be here if you can't handle arguments against your beliefs.

 

[outhouse]

Another for you.

A Statistical Monstrosity

“The President of the New York Scientific Society, as recorded in the "Readers' Digest," gave eight reasons why he believed there was a God. The first one was this. Take ten identical coins and mark them one to ten, place them in your pocket, and take one out, there is one chance in ten that you will get number one. Now replace it, and the chances that number two will follow number one are not one in ten, but one in one hundred, and so on, counting ten each time, so that the chances of number ten following number nine are one chance in 10,000,000,000 (ten thousand million). It seemed so unbelievable to me that I immediately took pencil and paper and very quickly discovered he was right. Try it yourself.

That is why George Gallup, the American statistician says: "I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone - chance that all the functions of the individual would just happen is a statistical monstrosity."

Surely no thoughtful person would wish to base his eternal future on a "statistical monstrosity." Perhaps that is why the Bible says in Psalm 14:1 "The fool hath said in his heart there is no God." (The Reason Why by R.A. Laidlaw)

reasons from ignorance, are not credible reasons. They are wishful thinking based on math, in this case.

It refuses to address how man has a history of creating deities in mythology.

 

[Revoltingest]

Another for you.
A Statistical Monstrosity
“The President of the New York Scientific Society, as recorded in the "Readers' Digest," gave eight reasons why he believed there was a God. The first one was this. Take ten identical coins and mark them one to ten, place them in your pocket, and take one out, there is one chance in ten that you will get number one. Now replace it, and the chances that number two will follow number one are not one in ten, but one in one hundred, and so on, counting ten each time, so that the chances of number ten following number nine are one chance in 10,000,000,000 (ten thousand million). It seemed so unbelievable to me that I immediately took pencil and paper and very quickly discovered he was right. Try it yourself.
That is why George Gallup, the American statistician says: "I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone - chance that all the functions of the individual would just happen is a statistical monstrosity."
Surely no thoughtful person would wish to base his eternal future on a "statistical monstrosity." Perhaps that is why the Bible says in Psalm 14:1 "The fool hath said in his heart there is no God." (The Reason Why by R.A. Laidlaw)

Statistics is a powerful tool. It has one glaring shortcoming though....if the assumptions are incorrect,
then so will be the results. In the rare case where someone actually presents an analysis, the poster
underestimates the number or kind of mechanisms which result in abiogenesis or evolution. So just as
it is in school, it's not enuf to give a numerical answer....one should show one's work.

 

[Serenity7855]

I'm wondering what makes you think god cannot intervene when the Bible states the opposite.

Where?

I'm also wondering how you know that demons and devils exist and how you know they are eternal in nature.

Wonder no more, the bible.

Revelations 12

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

You make a lot of claims without much to back them up

Simply not true. If I say it I can back it, unless unless I say otherwise.

We existed before we came here.

PREMORTAL LIFE

The life before earth life. All men and women lived with God as his spirit children before coming to the earth as mortal beings. This is sometimes called the first estate

When God laid the foundations of the earth, all the sons of God shouted for joy:Job 38:4–7;
The spirit shall return unto God who gave it:Eccl. 12:7;
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee:Jer. 1:4–5;
We are all his offspring:Acts 17:28;
God chose us before the foundation of the world:Eph. 1:3–4;
We are to be in subjection to the Father of spirits:Heb. 12:9;
The angels which kept not their first estate, he hath reserved in everlasting chains:Jude 1:6; ( Abr. 3:26; )
The Devil and his angels were cast out:Rev. 12:9;

 

[Nakosis]

PREMORTAL LIFE

The life before earth life. All men and women lived with God as his spirit children before coming to the earth as mortal beings. This is sometimes called the first estate

Do you remember being a spirit child?

 

[outhouse]

The life before earth life. All men and women lived with God as his spirit children before coming to the earth as mortal beings. This is sometimes called the first estate

It is also called mythology

 

[SkepticThinker]

Where?

I already gave you several examples.

Wonder no more, the bible.
Revelations 12
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Ah, the Bible. Anywhere else? Anything testable or verifiable?

Why is it that you turn to the Bible for answers here, but ignore it or try to explain it away when the Bible clearly states that god intervenes in human affair?

Simply not true. If I say it I can back it, unless unless I say otherwise.

Well, most people visiting this thread are still waiting for evidence for the god you believe in. So I’d say it’s true.

We existed before we came here.
PREMORTAL LIFE
The life before earth life. All men and women lived with God as his spirit children before coming to the earth as mortal beings. This is sometimes called the first estate (Abr. 3:26).
When God laid the foundations of the earth, all the sons of God shouted for joy:Job 38:4–7;
The spirit shall return unto God who gave it:Eccl. 12:7;
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee:Jer. 1:4–5;
We are all his offspring:Acts 17:28;
God chose us before the foundation of the world:Eph. 1:3–4;
We are to be in subjection to the Father of spirits:Heb. 12:9;
The angels which kept not their first estate, he hath reserved in everlasting chains:Jude 1:6; ( Abr. 3:26; )
The Devil and his angels were cast out:Rev. 12:9;

Good thing you threw in more unsubstantiated claims.

 

[groves200]

'void of the brain washing techniques of Atheists and open minded enough to learn' doesn't that work both ways?

 

[Serenity7855]

I already gave you several examples.

Ah, the Bible. Anywhere else? Anything testable or verifiable?

Where else do you think you will find that information.

Why is it that you turn to the Bible for answers here, but ignore it or try to explain it away when the Bible clearly states that god intervenes in human affair?

why do you need an answer to this personal question. How will it assist the debate.

Well, most people visiting this thread are still waiting for evidence for the god you believe in. So I’d say it’s true.

Not true, can you substantiate such a vague and argumentative statement.

Good thing you threw in more unsubstantiated claims.

You did not ask for substantiated claims. Some people would say that the bible is substantiated - me

 

[Serenity7855]

'void of the brain washing techniques of Atheists and open minded enough to learn' doesn't that work both ways?

Yes, I would say so