There is NO SCIENCE in the qu'ran

[jonman122]

i don't know how many times i've had to explain this to people, but where are they even getting the idea that there is science in the qu'ran or the bible? i've seen them come up with rediculous notions for everything, linking insanely vague sentences to embyology or cosmology or plate tectonics, like:

"And the mountains He has fixed firmly, (To be) a provision and benefit for you and your cattle." (Surat An-Nazi'at (Those Who Pull Out): 32-33)


somehow out of this vague sentence from the qu'ran, a muslim got the idea that this was somehow a scientific explanation as to how the mountains help stabilize the earth. Does it even say anything about stabilizing the earth in there? at all? it just says that the mountains aren't moving (which is wrong, scientifically speaking) and that they help cattle. How is that related to modern scientific study AT ALL?

it's not, and it really doesn't help your argument that you come up with these rediculous things when you try to mix 2 things that obviously cannot be mixed because they did not even exist within the same time frame. Modern science is incredibly young, you will find no mention of it whatsoever in any holy books that are older than 300 years.

 

[Revoltingest]

Don't get frustrated by the lunacy.....people is gonna believe what people is gonna believe.

 

[ChristineES]

Don't get frustrated by the lunacy.....people is gonna believe what people is gonna believe.

That's what I was going to say!

People will believe whatever they want to believe- talking to them isn't going to change their minds. They even have a right to believe it.
I found that it is normal for each of us to have a little lunacy, anyway.

 

[beenie]

Don't get frustrated by the lunacy.....people is gonna believe what people is gonna believe.

That's what I was going to say!

People will believe whatever they want to believe- talking to them isn't going to change their minds. They even have a right to believe it.
I found that it is normal for each of us to have a little lunacy, anyway.

i agree. why do you care so much what others believe?
when they start threads about it, refute it. but you started this thread, which means you care too much.

 

[jonman122]

i agree. why do you care so much what others believe?
when they start threads about it, refute it. but you started this thread, which means you care too much.

i started this thread because a muslim told me to actually :\

lets call it a general refutation, so people stop making posts about science in the qu'ran when it doesnt exist

 

[beenie]

i started this thread because a muslim told me to actually :\

lets call it a general refutation, so people stop making posts about science in the qu'ran when it doesnt exist

then i go back to the argument that people will believe what they want to believe.

if a Muslim thinks s/he will convert people to Islam using the Qu'ran as a scientific resource, they are in for an impossible uphill battle.

 

[gnostic]

To jonman:

Now, here is a Muslim I like. ssainhu seemed very reasonable with a lot of common sense, and intelligent, like Badran, with far more moderate outlook to the world.

then i go back to the argument that people will believe what they want to believe.

if a Muslim thinks s/he will convert people to Islam using the Qu'ran as a scientific resource, they are in for an impossible uphill battle.

Sure, they (some of these Muslims) have the rights to believe what they wish. I am not against what they believe, but I am against them using science to prop up their religion.

Well, they certainly wouldn't convert me with their faulty interpretation of both science and the Qur'an. It has opposite effect to me.

So I've reserved the rights to refute them on the ground that they are being "unscientific" and "illogical".

My suggestion to you jonman is this. Don't take it too serious. They will believe what they want to believe, and you are not going to change that. Try to educate them if you can or want to, but realize they will disagree with you, even when you present them with the theory or real evidences on a silver platter. Sometimes you get through to them, but sometimes you don't.

Beside this, I find some of their reasonings from some Muslims to be outrageously and illogical funny. It like watching the Simpsons, trying to put warp morals to the stories.

The other funny thing is that many of the recent threads have been debated before...some would say "debated to death". But new members will bring up old topics back up, and we are back dealing with refutations and counter-refutations, with neither side really any ground, except that some members may pulled all their hairs in utter frustration. To me, it is better to debate the issues than come to physical blows.

 

[ChristineES]

i started this thread because a muslim told me to actually :\

lets call it a general refutation, so people stop making posts about science in the qur'an when it doesn't exist

People can post whatever they want, as long as they are not proselytizing. If they believe it exists and you don't, isn't that a difference of opinion?

 

[jonman122]

People can post whatever they want, as long as they are not proselytizing. If they believe it exists and you don't, isn't that a difference of opinion?

Not really, it's a difference of facts. Science doesn't exist in the qu'ran or any other holy book PERIOD so i have no idea why anyone would even try to convince themselves of something so crazy, and then try to convince other people when they already know it's a lie.

 

[Arav]

Not really, it's a difference of facts.

Science is existent EVERYWHERE. Everywhere you look there is science. There are many types of science though, not just this "material" science. There does exist a science in the Quran, but it is no material science.

You cannot possibly say that I am wrong, nor can I say you are, it is a difference of opinion, not fact.

 

[Demonic Kitten]

Not really, it's a difference of facts. Science doesn't exist in the qu'ran or any other holy book PERIOD so i have no idea why anyone would even try to convince themselves of something so crazy, and then try to convince other people when they already know it's a lie.

That's just it. They don't see it as a lie. This is what they were taught to believe...I believe it is called faith. YOU think it's a lie and YOU know it's a lie, but there is no way YOU are going to be able to change their mind. Faith is a funny thing.

 

[ChristineES]

Not really, it's a difference of facts. Science doesn't exist in the qu'ran or any other holy book PERIOD so i have no idea why anyone would even try to convince themselves of something so crazy, and then try to convince other people when they already know it's a lie.

Don't you know there is a difference between being mistaken and a lie? Even if you think it is totally false and even if I did, I wouldn't want to tell people they can't believe in something. It doesn't hurt anything that someone believes in something like that.
And I believe the same as you- that Holy books do not contain science and are not supposed to contain science. For one thing, science is of the physical world while holy books are of the spiritual world.

 

[Arav]

Not really, it's a difference of facts. Science doesn't exist in the qu'ran or any other holy book PERIOD so i have no idea why anyone would even try to convince themselves of something so crazy, and then try to convince other people when they already know it's a lie.

I get the feeling as if your just strolling around here with a feeling of authority because you believe in SCIENCE. Your never going to convince anyone to convert from what they believe is the truth, just like they will never convert you from what you believe is the truth. And if they are converted by your little statement above, they had very little faith in the first place.

 

[jonman122]

Science is existent EVERYWHERE. Everywhere you look there is science. There are many types of science though, not just this "material" science. There does exist a science in the Quran, but it is no material science.

You cannot possibly say that I am wrong, nor can I say you are, it is a difference of opinion, not fact.

show me where science exists in the qu'ran or any other holy book, in a solid and evident way, (and not something vague like "we were made of flesh" is supposedly embryology) and i'd be apt to change my mind. but the problem is, many christian and islamic scholars agree there is no science in the holy books, there can't be. they were created 1400 years apart, science was made over a thousand years later than the qu'ran and nearly 2000 years after the bible. it's like saying "the bible says there were cars, read it here in this passage!" just because it talks about carts with wheels. it is literally impossible for this stuff to exist in those books.

i don't care to convert people, just educate them. and yes, it's a difference of fact.

 

[Godobeyer]

i don't know how many times i've had to explain this to people, but where are they even getting the idea that there is science in the qu'ran or the bible? i've seen them come up with rediculous notions for everything, linking insanely vague sentences to embyology or cosmology or plate tectonics, like:

"And the mountains He has fixed firmly, (To be) a provision and benefit for you and your cattle." (Surat An-Nazi'at (Those Who Pull Out): 32-33)


somehow out of this vague sentence from the qu'ran, a muslim got the idea that this was somehow a scientific explanation as to how the mountains help stabilize the earth. Does it even say anything about stabilizing the earth in there? at all? it just says that the mountains aren't moving (which is wrong, scientifically speaking) and that they help cattle. How is that related to modern scientific study AT ALL?

it's not, and it really doesn't help your argument that you come up with these rediculous things when you try to mix 2 things that obviously cannot be mixed because they did not even exist within the same time frame. Modern science is incredibly young, you will find no mention of it whatsoever in any holy books that are older than 300 years.

[youtube]KNd7hgZo4CU[/youtube]
YouTube - Miracles of Quran 7 of 8 - "The function of mountains"

 

[Arav]

show me where science exists in the qu'ran or any other holy book, in a solid and evident way, (and not something vague like "we were made of flesh" is supposedly embryology) and i'd be apt to change my mind. but the problem is, many christian and islamic scholars agree there is no science in the holy books, there can't be. they were created 1400 years apart, science was made over a thousand years later than the qu'ran and nearly 2000 years after the bible. it's like saying "the bible says there were cars, read it here in this passage!" just because it talks about carts with wheels. it is literally impossible for this stuff to exist in those books.

i don't care to convert people, just educate them. and yes, it's a difference of fact.

Ok, Ill give it to you, it is a matter of fact. And it is a fact that within the Bible, Quran, Bhagavad-Gita, Kitab-i-aqdas, and all other major religions, that there is a science within all of them. But understand what I said, this is not a material science. So I know you did not read what I said because I will not present embryology or anything about flesh, because that is material and this science is not.

And I dont belive you will change your mind, you dont seem to be open enough to go outside the box to even consider the existence of a God, let alone a Spiritual Science. Remember, not all science is just biology, geography, and the such, but thats all they will tell you in school.

And if you really want to educate people, as you say above, then you are not going about it the right way. Stolling around saying that people are crazy for their beliefs is not the way to go. If I walked up to a first grader and was intending to educate them I wouldnt say "My gosh, you are crazy for not knowing this, or that". No, you educate them, what you are doing is not educating, but simply ranting.

 

[England my lionheart]

Ok, Ill give it to you, it is a matter of fact. And it is a fact that within the Bible, Quran, Bhagavad-Gita, Kitab-i-aqdas, and all other major religions, that there is a science within all of them. But understand what I said, this is not a material science. So I know you did not read what I said because I will not present embryology or anything about flesh, because that is material and this science is not.

And I dont belive you will change your mind, you dont seem to be open enough to go outside the box to even consider the existence of a God, let alone a Spiritual Science. Remember, not all science is just biology, geography, and the such, but thats all they will tell you in school.

And if you really want to educate people, as you say above, then you are not going about it the right way. Stolling around saying that people are crazy for their beliefs is not the way to go. If I walked up to a first grader and was intending to educate them I wouldnt say "My gosh, you are crazy for not knowing this, or that". No, you educate them, what you are doing is not educating, but simply ranting.

Although i agree with you to a certain extent ,i think a large shot of reality would go a long way fo all of us

 

[McBell]

[youtube]KNd7hgZo4CU[/youtube]
YouTube - Miracles of Quran 7 of 8 - "The function of mountains"

 

[Reptillian]

I'm willing to admit that there is some science contained in various ancient religious books. However, it isn't there because it was magically revealed by some divine being or prophecy. Ancient people weren't idiots, so it wouldn't be a suprise to me that they made some of the same realizations that we have in modern times...same world now to observe as then. I think people get the impression that ancients were dumb because of profound ignorance in Europe during the dark ages. In the ancient world the romans had things like indoor plumbing, running water, and steam powered automatic doors and heating systems. The ancient greeks realized that the world was round and had even calculated its circumference using geometry and astronomical measurements. Many of the ideas of ancient philosophers have their modern counterparts...we have some of the same ideas now, but in modern times we rely on experiment more than intuition. So yeah, I wouldn't be suprised to see the occasional scientific insight embedded into a religious text.

 

[jonman122]

I'm willing to admit that there is some science contained in various ancient religious books. However, it isn't there because it was magically revealed by some divine being or prophecy. Ancient people weren't idiots, so it wouldn't be a suprise to me that they made some of the same realizations that we have in modern times...same world now to observe as then. I think people get the impression that ancients were dumb because of profound ignorance in Europe during the dark ages. In the ancient world the romans had things like indoor plumbing, running water, and steam powered automatic doors and heating systems. The ancient greeks realized that the world was round and had even calculated its circumference using geometry and astronomical measurements. Many of the ideas of ancient philosophers have their modern counterparts...we have some of the same ideas now, but in modern times we rely on experiment more than intuition. So yeah, I wouldn't be suprised to see the occasional scientific insight embedded into a religious text.

just to put this in to a different perspective, the bible says the world is flat and there are no mathematical calculations in it at all. sure, the ancient greeks and roman scholars knew a great deal of science, but that was destroyed and nearly completely lost, and there is no mention of these greek or roman scientific discoveries in the bible. Either way, i don't see how it is relevent in any way for the scriptures or the qu'ran or any other religious book to have science in it anyways, it really doesn't do anything for promoting itself and that's what the books were made for.. they weren't made to be science books.

also, if you look back, the ancient greek/roman gods didn't have anything to do with science. That was left to the philosophers