There's Always A Choice...

[MindHunter]

I believe we always have choices. We can have a choice when life is good, when it's mediocore and when it's downright, headfirst in the john. Even in the most extreme situations, there's a choice. Let's say, you're going to be killed by some maniac. There's no negotiating out of it, he/she is going to try all they can to ensure you die. You can choose to accept the death and undergo immense pain, or you can fight back. Either way, odds are against you, however, there's a choice.

In not such so brutal instances, we still have choices. For example, I chose to right "in not such so brutal instances" at the first sentence, instead of having it say "dfoooig745-[]aasi\\\]\\irioog9hertrghiergtfrg5654g5@#~".

I feel that regardless of the mess you're in, whether it's just you in the mess or if you've got a populated mess, there are choices. For example, I can choose to, tomorrow, pull a knife and kill my neighbours, **** on their door then shoot a police officer. It's a choice. Then again, I could choose to study for an up-coming test and final exams without killing anyone.

We've all been in faces of death and danger. For example, we've gotten in trouble with the law at 10 years old multiple times, we got broken bones when there was no hospital within near-by walking distance and too hard to get an ambulance in, we've been in times to use people, to cheat, to be honest, etc... . It's all choices we make. They may not be the best, however, that's not the issue, the issue is, do we have them?

 

[DarkSun]

I would venture that even in those examples there is your own choice involved

But yes, Storm, there is choice ALL WAYS.

Possibly, but you don't always choose the effects of those choices.

Just because I could accidently breathe in a spore of polio virus, that doesn't mean I want polio. Likewise, I could choose to walk down the street at night, but that doesn't mean that I chose to be stabbed fifteen times in the chest before being dismembered by some psychopath. Sometimes other peoples' choices can have an indirect effect on your own life.

As for your race, your personality and what you come to believe. No, I would venture that those traits are so innate that you have no control over them. Well, plastic surgery and changing personalities aside, anyway.

 

[no_spoon]

From the OP:

No matter how bad things get, no matter how extreme the situation, we still have choices.

There is a difference between "I can choose the various aspects of my life, I have full control" and "At every point in my life I am presented with choices, I am never without some control".

Maybe this distinction might help narrow the focus of the discussion.

 

[Storm]

I meant the latter.

 

[MindHunter]

Possibly, but you don't always choose the effects of those choices.

Just because I could accidently breathe in a spore of polio virus, that doesn't mean I want polio. Likewise, I could choose to walk down the street at night, but that doesn't mean that I chose to be stabbed fifteen times in the chest before being dismembered by some psychopath. Sometimes other peoples' choices can have an indirect effect on your own life.

As for your race, your personality and what you come to believe. No, I would venture that those traits are so innate that you have no control over them. Well, plastic surgery and changing personalities aside, anyway.

True, you cannot always choose the effects of the choices. However, that was not the issue. The issue was can you have choices.

Personality can be changed, such as in personality disorders, however, it's extremely difficult, takes a long time and rarely, if almost never, is 100% changed. I suppose race and such you don't have control over, however, those aren't events in your life, those are the defining characteristics of yourself.

 

[Storm]

True, you cannot always choose the effects of the choices. However, that was not the issue. The issue was can you have choices.

Personality can be changed, such as in personality disorders, however, it's extremely difficult, takes a long time and rarely, if almost never, is 100% changed. I suppose race and such you don't have control over, however, those aren't events in your life, those are the defining characteristics of yourself.

Exactly.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

What if I'm skydiving and my main chute does not open. I pull the ripcord for the emergency chute and it does not open either. What meaningful choice do I have at this point?

 

[no_spoon]

What if I'm skydiving and my main chute does not open. I pull the ripcord for the emergency chute and it does not open either. What meaningful choice do I have at this point?

I know nothing about skydiving, so I'm going out on a limb here. But just to live within your example: depending on how high up you are and how many seconds you have until impact, you could experiment with using your limbs to steer to see if you could land in a marsh or someplace where you had 0.1% survival chances as opposed to 0.0% (or if you didn't want to risk what that would mean, you could steer for cement)....or you could try to leave some message to a loved one that you were thinking of them (move your wedding ring to a pocket near your heart), or just enjoy the beautiful scenery for the last time.

 

[rojse]

... sometimes, they're all bad.

"We always have a choice. We say there is no choice only to comfort ourselves when a decision is already made." ~ J. Michael Straczynski, Babylon 5

I agree with these quotes. No matter how bad things get, no matter how extreme the situation, we still have choices.

What say you?

I wonder if we even have a choice at all, whether free will exists or not. When we are presented with a choice, we choose what seems most palatable to us, given the available options and our limited knowledge. We always choose the most appealing option, or if no option appeals, the least unappealing option.

I suppose you could choose what seems to be a poorer option out of what is available, but you would have to be a masochist, quite foolish, or perhaps both.

 

[DarkSun]

True, you cannot always choose the effects of the choices. However, that was not the issue. The issue was can you have choices.

I agree that people all have the ability to make choices. I was just responding to what Methylated Ghost said; that we have a choice in every one of the situations I previously listed. The fact of the matter is, we all make choices about our lives, but we don't always choose the consequences of those choices.

Personality can be changed, such as in personality disorders, however, it's extremely difficult, takes a long time and rarely, if almost never, is 100% changed. I suppose race and such you don't have control over, however, those aren't events in your life, those are the defining characteristics of yourself.

Personality changes are extremely rare, but while transformations of character are possible, they are never complete. People can change a little bit, but not much. In that sense, our natures can be as defining a characteristic of the individual as race.

 

[sarahjane127]

I totally believe we have a choice, in everything.
I know so many people who are so unhappy about the person they are with, or where they are in life.

I just don't understand how they can't understand that they can make choices and get themselves out of their situation. They stand there helpless complaining to the world when a change is a choice away. Want a better job? Decide to go to school, there is always the possibility. Want to have a family? Find someone who wants the same. There is always someone..

 

[MindHunter]

The fact of the matter is, we all make choices about our lives, but we don't always choose the consequences of those choices.

Agreed entirely on this: we make our choices but not the consequences of those choices.

sarahjane127, some theories in psychology are used to help explain why people, particularly with depression, feel hopelessness. For example, Meichanbaum, Ellis, Beck, and Kelley, among others, generally state that a person's thoughts or inner voice gives them a self-defeating behavior (although each one of these doctors vary, especially Kelley). This self-defeating behavior can result in them seeing the world as unforgiving, horrible and just a generally pesimistic mentality. It seems rather odd for people without this to figure out and understand just how someone can get like this, however, the cognitive paradigm gives some insight. There are other views, such as a neurochemical inbalance which produces the depression and consequently, hopelessness.