There's Not An Iota Of Evidence The Apostles Existed

[Truthseeker]

No one has to believe anything, a Christian is someone who makes a decision to receive Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.

Why did you make that decision?

 

[ElishaElijah]

Why did you make that decision?

After I made a mess of my life and hopeless I cried out to God for help and asked Him to deliver me from my addiction, it was the first time I was honest with myself and realized I was going to die if I didn’t stop but couldn’t. That moment I felt the presence of God in room I was in and God delivered me, I didn’t see anything just knew He was there, I was so excited that everyone in that treatment center thought I went crazy. For the next year I was looking for God and thinking there had to be more to God than just this one encounter. I tried meditation and all kinds of different spiritual things. I ended up at a going to a Church through different circumstances and would see the pastor of that Church in town and had this nagging voice saying you have to talk to that guy. So I couldn’t take it anymore and went to his office and said to Him that I needed to talk to him about something but didn’t know what. He shared with me how God loved me and wanted a relationship but my sin had separated me from Him. That He sent His Son to die on the Cross and rose from the dead so my sins could be forgiven and the relationship restored. He asked if I sinned and if I believed that. My sins were numerous and glaring and not sure how I believed that but just did. He asked if I was ready to turn away from all my sin and receive Jesus Christ as my Lord, make a covenant with Him and give Him my life. I said yes and made that decision, asked Jesus Christ to forgive me and come into my life be my Lord. That moment something happened and I felt a joy I had never felt before, I started reading the Bible and it made sense, I understood it for the first time and couldn’t stop reading it. He filled me and that feeling that something was missing was gone. I’ve continued with God for the last 30+ years and God has continued to lead me, provide and watch over me and my family. Has done above and beyond anything I could imagine.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I believe aliens are more likely government fakes

Why?

, and I don’t think that “if there are stories about it, it must be true”.

Seems to be the exact standard you are advocating here though.........................

But in some cases, I think it is more probable that the story is true than that it is a fake,

In what kind of cases? Depending on what? What's the criteria?

especially if there is no reasonable motive for fake.

False dichotomy.
Something isn't either true or a deliberate lie.
Something can be true and exaggerated.
People can be honestly mistaken.

The sincere people who claimed to have seen bigfoot for example. I don't doubt their honesty or sincerity. I think they really do believe they have seen bigfoot. I also think they were mistaken in what they thought they saw. They certainly have no evidence to support their claims.

 

[1213]

Why?

Because, I don’t think a group of beings from a different planet would waste their time by flying irrationally on our skies. At this point I think most probably it is human technology that is used/developed secretly and eventually the phenomena will be used to get more money, power and control to the rulers of earth.

...The sincere people who claimed to have seen bigfoot for example. I don't doubt their honesty or sincerity. I think they really do believe they have seen bigfoot. I also think they were mistaken in what they thought they saw. They certainly have no evidence to support their claims.

I can agree with that. I think it is possible people think they have seen things that they misinterpret to be something else than what they really are.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Because, I don’t think a group of beings from a different planet would waste their time by flying irrationally on our skies.

Sure. But why is the alternative you propose a "government conspiracy"?

Isn't it quite more likely that the claims of alien visitation are just made up or that the ones who make those claims are simply mistaken or hallucinating?

At this point I think most probably it is human technology that is used/developed secretly and eventually the phenomena will be used to get more money, power and control to the rulers of earth.

What "technology"? Photoshop probably has an "insert UFO button" today.
You make little sense.

It seems you have simply decided that you're going to take the claims of people who report alien visitation as being accurate. It makes little sense.

Here's a fun fact for you (curtesy Neil DeGrass Tyson):
Claims of alien / UFO sightings aren't higher among the astronomy community, not even amateur astronomers. In fact, they are LOWER as opposed to the general populace. MUCH lower. You know why? Well, because those people know what they are looking at, when look at the sky.

I can agree with that. I think it is possible people think they have seen things that they misinterpret to be something else than what they really are.

Cool.

So how do you tell the difference between someone who's simply mistaken and someone who isn't?

 

[1213]

Sure. But why is the alternative you propose a "government conspiracy"?

I think it depends on what is done because of the matter. If it leads to more government, more taxes, more power to the tyrants, less right for people, then I think it is a "government conspiracy". If it means, mental hospital, ridicule, jail for those who speak about it, then it may be something else.

Isn't it quite more likely that the claims of alien visitation are just made up or that the ones who make those claims are simply mistaken or hallucinating?

What "technology"? ...

For example, something like what nazis developed.

Haunebu II

But, perhaps it is possible that some have just made up the stories, or hallucinating, or made a mistake with swamp gas.

 

[night912]

I’ve proved to myself beyond a shadow of a doubt these words to be true and reliable.

Just as I have proven to myself beyond a shadow of a doubt the writings of Baha'u'llah are true and reliable.

So how do we determine which writings are true and reliable?

 

[Trailblazer]

So how do we determine which writings are true and reliable?

By doing our own independent investigation of truth.

 

[night912]

By doing our own independent investigation of truth.

That's something that should be done before accepting something to be true. But I'm not talking about "truth" in general. I'm referring to the two different scriptures that you two believe are true. Both scriptures cannot be true.

Keep in mind that this is about the scripture being true and reliable, and not just being compatible with each other. One talks about a literal resurrection of Jesus, and the other one does not.

 

[Trailblazer]

That's something that should be done before accepting something to be true. But I'm not talking about "truth" in general. I'm referring to the two different scriptures that you two believe are true. Both scriptures cannot be true.

Keep in mind that this is about the scripture being true and reliable, and not just being compatible with each other. One talks about a literal resurrection of Jesus, and the other one does not.

Both scriptures can be true but that does not mean that they are equally true. I believe that the Bible is true but that does not mean that everything in the Bible is true or that everything is literally true.

Both scriptures can be reliable but that does not mean that they are equally reliable.
I do not believe that the Bible is reliable because it was written by men of unknown authorship. Not only that but it has gone through many changes and edits over the years so it is impossible to know what was originally recorded. Also, there is no way to verify from external sources that any of the people in the Bible existed or if any of the events actually took place.

By contrast, we know the authorship of the Baha'i Writings and we have the original writings that have been authenticated. We also have a detailed history of the Faith that was chronicled by those who knew the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

There is no reason to believe that the resurrection stories in the Bible are actually true stories because there is no way to verify what they describe from any external sources. Many liberal Christians have concluded that these stories are mythical, and they do not believe that Jesus ever rose from the dead.

What many liberal theologians believe about Jesus' death

“Many liberal and some mainline Christian leaders believe that Jesus died during the crucifixion, did not resurrect himself, and was not bodily resurrected by God. At his death, his mind ceased to function and his body started the decomposition process. Returning to life a day and a half later would have been quite impossible. The story of having been wrapped in linen and anointed with myrrh seems to have been copied from the story of the death of Osiris -- the Egyptian God of the earth, vegetation and grain. The legend that he visited the underworld between his death and resurrection was simply copied from common Pagan themes of surrounding cultures. One example again was Osiris. "With his original association to agriculture, his death and resurrection were seen as symbolic of the annual death and re-growth of the crops and the yearly flooding of the Nile." 1

They also believe that Paul regarded the resurrection to be an act of God in which Jesus was a passive recipient of God's power. Paul did not mention the empty tomb, the visit by a woman or women, the stone, the angel/angels/man/men at the tomb, and reunion of Jesus with his followers in his resuscitated body. Rather, he believed that Jesus was taken up into heaven in a spirit body. It was only later, from about 70 to 110 CE when the four canonic Gospels were written, that the Christians believed that Jesus rose from the grave in his original body, and by his own power.”

 

[night912]

Both scriptures can be true but that does not mean that they are equally true. I believe that the Bible is true but that does not mean that everything in the Bible is true or that everything is literally true.

Both scriptures can be reliable but that does not mean that they are equally reliable.
I do not believe that the Bible is reliable because it was written by men of unknown authorship. Not only that but it has gone through many changes and edits over the years so it is impossible to know what was originally recorded. Also, there is no way to verify from external sources that any of the people in the Bible existed or if any of the events actually took place.

That's a contradiction. If both scriptures are not equally true, then at least one of them is not true. Scripture of christianity said that Jesus was resurrected. But if that didn't happened, then by definition, the scripture is not true.

 

[Trailblazer]

That's a contradiction. If both scriptures are not equally true, then at least one of them is not true.

The way I see it there are degrees of truth. They both contain truth, but one is all true and the other is only partly true.

Scripture of christianity said that Jesus was resurrected. But if that didn't happened, then by definition, the scripture is not true.

That part of the scripture is not true, but there are other parts that are true.