These answers to the problem of evil are unsatisfactory to me

[Massimo2002]

How do you explain the existence of evil, despite God being almighty, and all knowing, and perfect love?

How do you forum posters explain that evil exists despite God being, all powerful, all knowing and all love? Why does God permit or create evil? Or did God not want it for anything? Is evil and illusion? Why did Jesus create the situation of the crucifixion and go through that? Why does the...

www.christianforums.com

 

[Trailblazer]

Imo, calling it the problem of evil is a misnomer. It should be called the problem of suffering.

Evil is an act that humans commit by virtue of their free will.
By contrast, suffering is what humans have to endure by virtue of being born into a material world which is a storehouse of suffering.

God allows suffering because... well then we have the myriad religious aoplogetics regarding how suffering is good for us and the whole nine yards.

Carry on.

 

[McBell]

Imo, calling it the problem of evil is a misnomer. It should be called the problem of suffering.

Evil is an act that humans commit by virtue of their free will.
By contrast, suffering is what humans have to endure by virtue of being born into a material world which is a storehouse of suffering.

God allows suffering because... well then we have the myriad religious aoplogetics regarding how suffering is good for us and the whole nine yards.

Carry on.

Even if we were to change it from "evil" to causing suffering like you propose, causing suffering is evil.
So all you have really done is add an unnecessary layer to the problem of evil.

 

[Jimmy]

Life

 

[Trailblazer]

Even if we were to change it from "evil" to causing suffering like you propose, causing suffering is evil.
So all you have really done is add an unnecessary layer to the problem of evil.

You are correct in saying that causing suffering is evil, but God does not cause suffering.
Allowing suffering to exist is not the same as causing suffering.

 

[Massimo2002]

You are correct in saying that causing suffering is evil, but God does not cause suffering.
Allowing suffering to exist is not the same as causing suffering.

It's the same thing.

 

[Quintessence]

You are correct in saying that causing suffering is evil, but God does not cause suffering.
Allowing suffering to exist is not the same as causing suffering.

When I studied philosophy of religion in college (which was really just philosophy of Abrahamic religions if we want to be honest about what the class covered) one of the arguments for the Abrahamic god is to regard this god as the first cause, or uncaused cause, or the ultimate cause of everything. If you abide by this logic, how do you square this with what you wrote here? If you do not abide by this logic, feel free to disregard as I'm aware of other logical arguments for the Abrahamic god.

 

[Trailblazer]

It's the same thing.

No, it is not the same at all.
Allowing suffering to exist is not the same as causing suffering.

 

[McBell]

You are correct in saying that causing suffering is evil, but God does not cause suffering.
Allowing suffering to exist is not the same as causing suffering.

How is not stopping suffering when you have the ability to stop suffering not evil?

 

[Trailblazer]

When I studied philosophy of religion in college (which was really just philosophy of Abrahamic religions if we want to be honest about what the class covered) one of the arguments for the Abrahamic god is to regard this god as the first cause, or uncaused cause, or the ultimate cause of everything. If you abide by this logic, how do you square this with what you wrote here? If you do not abide by this logic, feel free to disregard as I'm aware of other logical arguments for the Abrahamic god.

God is the first cause, the cause of everything that came into existence, but God is not the cause of anything that happened after everything was created.
Humans were given dominion over the earth and humans are the cause of what happens on this earth, other than natural disasters which are just a part of nature, not caused by God.

God is responsible for creating a world in which people will suffer for various reasons. I suggest we discuss what God is actually responsible for, not what God is not responsible for.

 

[McBell]

I suggest we discuss what God is actually responsible for, not what God is not responsible for.

Yes.
You need to control the narrative in order to give god a free pass.

 

[Trailblazer]

How is not stopping stopping suffering when you have the ability to stop suffering not evil?

Let's turn that around.
Why would not stopping suffering just because you have the ability to stop suffering be evil?

Another question: Since God created a world in which He knew that suffering would exist, that being part of the design, why would God do an about face and prevent the suffering that is inherent in the material world?

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes.
You need to control the narrative in order to give god a free pass.

I am the last person who would give God a free pass.
I suggest you talk to some Christians or other Baha'is who give God a free pass.

I have suffered pretty much my entire life through no fault of my own. The existence of suffering is the reason I cannot believe that God is loving.
God might be benevolent but that depends upon how one interprets suffering.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

You are correct in saying that causing suffering is evil, but God does not cause suffering.
Allowing suffering to exist is not the same as causing suffering.

If the deity is omnipotent, and omnibenevolent, what's the difference? Not wanting suffering, but not bothering to do something about it results in suffering -- whether caused or not by the deity.

 

[Trailblazer]

If the deity is omnipotent, and omnibenevolent, what's the difference? Not wanting suffering, but not bothering to do something about it results in suffering -- whether caused or not by the deity.

Who said that God did not want suffering?
If God had not wanted suffering then God would not have created a world in which He knew that people and animals would suffer.

God's omnipotence has nothing to do with this. Why would God 'do something' about suffering when it was God who made the conditions for suffering possible in the first place? That makes no logical sense. That would be like a man house and then tearing it down.

 

[Spice]

Simplified, our universe works on cause and effect. God is the first cause, and Creation the first effect.

Combine a positive action with a negative action/intent and some level of evil is the effect. Now that evil has been effected, it needs to be met with a positive action/intent in order to counter/neutralize the suffering. Life is a balance that humankind, in the mass, controls.

Everything God created is good, and remains good when met with positive action/intent. Even when two goods come together, what is created can easily be preceived as a negative if the human mind does not view it with positive action/intent. Natural occurrences such as thunderstorms, which can cause devastation, is certainly not "evil."

Man "learned" or discovered negative intents and developed the actions that takes a cause and effect to an evil.

Jesus taught to enrich the world with positive intent/action, by love. Meet potential evil with concrete love and get ahead of the evil effect.

An African Proverb:
A child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Who said that God did not want suffering?
If God had not wanted suffering then God would not have created a world in which He knew that people and animals would suffer.

God's omnipotence has nothing to do with this. Why would God 'do something' about suffering when it was God who made the conditions for suffering possible in the first place? That makes no logical sense. That would be like a man house and then tearing it down.

Then prayer to alleviate suffering would be an act of sacrilege.

 

[McBell]

Let's turn that around.
Why would stopping suffering just because you have the ability to stop suffering be evil?

Huh?

I say that having the power to stop suffering and not stopping the suffering is evil.
I have no idea what you are on about...

Another question: Since God created a world in which He knew that suffering would exist, that being part of the design, why would God do an about face and prevent the suffering that is inherent in the material world?

Because god is evil.

You really should pay better attention.

 

[Trailblazer]

Then prayer to alleviate suffering would be an act of sacrilege.

Just because God made the conditions for suffering possible that does not mean that God wants us to suffer.
I think that God wants us to suffer some of the time, because that helps to build our character, but not all of the time!

Hear that God?

Seriously, I think God wants us to do what we can to alleviate our suffering, although there will still be suffering in this world.
God will answer our prayers as he sees fit. I usually gt some kind of alleviation when I am at the very end of my rope.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Just because God made the conditions for suffering possible that does not mean that God wants us to suffer.
I think that God wants us to suffer some of the time, because that helps to build our character, but not all of the time!

Hear that God?

Seriously, I think God wants us to do what we can to alleviate our suffering, although there will still be suffering in this world.
God will answer our prayers as he sees fit. I usually gt some kind of alleviation when I am at the very end of my rope.

Actually, I know all of that -- I know much of the theodicy arguments.

For me, however, none of the questions this thread hopes to answer is even a question if one supposes there is no such thing as a personal, triple-O God. No answers needed at all.