Things you don't like about Materialism

[Laika]

Materialism is defined as:

Materialism is a form of philosophical monism which holds that matter is the fundamental substance in nature, and that all things, including mental aspects and consciousness, are results of material interactions.In contrast to idealism, materialism concedes the primacy of material, not consciousness. Which means, material exists before consciousness, material creates and determines consciousness, not vice versa. Materialists believe that material is the ultimate origin of the existing world, and they aim to explain the world via materialistic reasons. (Materialism | Wikiwand)

There is an association between materialism as the obsessive and destructive desire for material possessions and earthly goods at the expense of the divine such as wealth, power, fame, etc. Its also closely associated with atheism, nihilism, communism, evolution, social Darwinism, etc and therefore treated negatively by many religious adherents for being in direct opposition and a threat to their beliefs. Secular critics often describe materialism as a faith, a dogma, a religion, or an excessive faith in scientific materialism (aka. "scientism").

Speaking as someone with strong materialist sympathies, I'm curious to better understand why it is so common for people on RF to dislike materialism and what I could do that would help improve its reputation. Do you have any specific issues or criticism of materialism you'd like to have addressed?

(Edit: Its not the whole story but I voted "positive" in the Poll).

 

[sayak83]

Materialism is defined as:

Materialism is a form of philosophical monism which holds that matter is the fundamental substance in nature, and that all things, including mental aspects and consciousness, are results of material interactions.In contrast to idealism, materialism concedes the primacy of material, not consciousness. Which means, material exists before consciousness, material creates and determines consciousness, not vice versa. Materialists believe that material is the ultimate origin of the existing world, and they aim to explain the world via materialistic reasons. (Materialism | Wikiwand)

There is an association between materialism as the obsessive and destructive desire for material possessions and earthly goods at the expense of the divine such as wealth, power, fame, etc. Its also closely associated with atheism, nihilism, communism, evolution, social Darwinism, "scientism", etc and therefore treated negatively by many religious adherents for being in direct opposition and a threat to their beliefs.

Speaking as someone with strong materialist sympathies, I'm curious to better understand why it is so common for people on RF to dislike materialism and what I could do that would help improve its reputation. Do you have any specific issues or criticism of materialism you'd like to have addressed?

(Edit: Its not the whole story but I voted "positive" in the Poll).

I believe metaphysical materialism to be wrong. Other than that, no opinions.

 

[Altfish]

I think you hit the nail on the head in the opening post when you said, When you said, "There is an association between materialism as the obsessive and destructive desire for material possessions and earthly goods at the expense of the divine..."
It is that association that they try to use against atheists.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I describe myself as such but honestly it doesn't really inform my day to day actions. I can count the number of times it's come up IRL on one hand.

 

[Nous]

Materialism is defined as:

Materialism is a form of philosophical monism which holds that matter is the fundamental substance in nature . . .

I reject materialism because according to the findings and theories of modern physics it simply isn't a true thesis. Bosons, which include photons, gluons and the force-carrying gauge bosons, are not objects that have mass and volume (matter), and, are certainly no less “fundamental” than objects that have mass and volume. Indeed, if anything, bosons would seem to be the more fundamental. Matter isn't even a conserved quantity. Energy and other fundamental quantities are. I cannot conceive how a conserved quantity would be less fundamental than a quantity that isn't conserved.

Speaking as someone with strong materialist sympathies, I'm curious to better understand why it is so common for people on RF to dislike materialism and what I could do that would help improve its reputation. Do you have any specific issues or criticism of materialism you'd like to have addressed?

If everyone had your willingness, even eagerness, to see and understand things from "the other side," the world would be a much smarter place. I sometimes get irritated when speak of materialism in lossey-goosey ways (materialists are probably not the ones who are most guilty of this). But other metaphysical theses are spoken of imprecisely. Personally I think people should be sentenced to prison for using vague and inaccurate language. But other than that, I don't really have a solution.

 

[David1967]

Materialism is defined as:

Materialism is a form of philosophical monism which holds that matter is the fundamental substance in nature, and that all things, including mental aspects and consciousness, are results of material interactions.In contrast to idealism, materialism concedes the primacy of material, not consciousness. Which means, material exists before consciousness, material creates and determines consciousness, not vice versa. Materialists believe that material is the ultimate origin of the existing world, and they aim to explain the world via materialistic reasons. (Materialism | Wikiwand)

There is an association between materialism as the obsessive and destructive desire for material possessions and earthly goods at the expense of the divine such as wealth, power, fame, etc. Its also closely associated with atheism, nihilism, communism, evolution, social Darwinism, etc and therefore treated negatively by many religious adherents for being in direct opposition and a threat to their beliefs. Secular critics often describe materialism as a faith, a dogma, a religion, or an excessive faith in scientific materialism (aka. "scientism").

Speaking as someone with strong materialist sympathies, I'm curious to better understand why it is so common for people on RF to dislike materialism and what I could do that would help improve its reputation. Do you have any specific issues or criticism of materialism you'd like to have addressed?

(Edit: Its not the whole story but I voted "positive" in the Poll).

I like having nice things. But , if a persons happiness is based on material things, I think it will always fall short.

 

[Jumi]

I dislike the discussions around it. That the term is used to mean both gathering material stuff and the materialist philosophies and when discussing the philosophies people seem to have strange ideas about it is a continuous source of confusion and blame.

 

[Grandliseur]

Materialism is defined as:

Materialism is a form of philosophical monism which holds that matter is the fundamental substance in nature, and that all things, including mental aspects and consciousness, are results of material interactions.In contrast to idealism, materialism concedes the primacy of material, not consciousness. Which means, material exists before consciousness, material creates and determines consciousness, not vice versa. Materialists believe that material is the ultimate origin of the existing world, and they aim to explain the world via materialistic reasons. (Materialism | Wikiwand)

There is an association between materialism as the obsessive and destructive desire for material possessions and earthly goods at the expense of the divine such as wealth, power, fame, etc. Its also closely associated with atheism, nihilism, communism, evolution, social Darwinism, etc and therefore treated negatively by many religious adherents for being in direct opposition and a threat to their beliefs. Secular critics often describe materialism as a faith, a dogma, a religion, or an excessive faith in scientific materialism (aka. "scientism").

Speaking as someone with strong materialist sympathies, I'm curious to better understand why it is so common for people on RF to dislike materialism and what I could do that would help improve its reputation. Do you have any specific issues or criticism of materialism you'd like to have addressed?

(Edit: Its not the whole story but I voted "positive" in the Poll).

Since materialists tend to claim that they rely on science, it would seem that a recent scientific research gives these a headache from the beginning.

Science now claims that this universe shouldn't exist at all. Ups, the materialistic philosophy needs a boost from perhaps a little on the side of those who claim that there is more to it than just simple matter.

 

[Polymath257]

How do you define 'material'?

In any definition worth its salt, bosons would be material. If they fail according to your definition, then your definition is the problem, not bosons.

 

[Tmac]

Materialism is defined as:

Materialism is a form of philosophical monism which holds that matter is the fundamental substance in nature, and that all things, including mental aspects and consciousness, are results of material interactions.In contrast to idealism, materialism concedes the primacy of material, not consciousness. Which means, material exists before consciousness, material creates and determines consciousness, not vice versa. Materialists believe that material is the ultimate origin of the existing world, and they aim to explain the world via materialistic reasons. (Materialism | Wikiwand)

There is an association between materialism as the obsessive and destructive desire for material possessions and earthly goods at the expense of the divine such as wealth, power, fame, etc. Its also closely associated with atheism, nihilism, communism, evolution, social Darwinism, etc and therefore treated negatively by many religious adherents for being in direct opposition and a threat to their beliefs. Secular critics often describe materialism as a faith, a dogma, a religion, or an excessive faith in scientific materialism (aka. "scientism").

Speaking as someone with strong materialist sympathies, I'm curious to better understand why it is so common for people on RF to dislike materialism and what I could do that would help improve its reputation. Do you have any specific issues or criticism of materialism you'd like to have addressed?

(Edit: Its not the whole story but I voted "positive" in the Poll).

I am of the opinion that consciousness came before materialism, I ask you, when did you become conscious, not conscious of yourself but conscious that you existed, I can remember creating my self according to the models given me and I'm still working on it..

 

[bobhikes]

Anyone claiming to know everything about the world whether it be spiritualism, religion, materialism ...etc that doesn't allow for exceptions to there belief is annoying but a typical human so I voted mixed/indifferent. If you take the time to label yourself in this life you are going to be wrong at some point.

 

[Willamena]

I deny metaphysical materialism because it is an outdated idea (replaced consecutively by physicalism and then quantum mechanics in the early 20th Century) and because I lean to idealism.

 

[Kuzcotopia]

I dislike the weird preconceptions and somewhat hostile stereotypes about Materialists (philosophical) that seem to spring up all the time, but nothing bothers me about Materialism itself as a philosophy.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

From a metaphysical perspective, I find it runs into the same answerless questions that any religious or spiritually based responses have, which tend to revolve around things beyond this universe/god, what is really the smallest/biggest things there are, and where does it all really come from? Science has yet to even really tell us anything about these spiritual experiences--and experience felt by atheists and theists alike and as universal as us wanting to have sex--and who's to say we don't serve some purpose comparable to an organelle but on a cosmic scale? And what if we are truly a malignant growth, and this "human will/agency" that we have so long to describe as those things that tell us apart from other animals is a reflection of this maligned drive?
Socially, it is very problematic. The want for material junk has run amok, has far exceeded those levels of greed and needless gain/consumption that defined gluttony, we have over populated that planet, we are destroying it, and Social Darwinism, asides from it being not having any connection to Darwin beyond the name, is a problem that goes against the nature of social animals, which is living in harmony with "us," relying of each other for survival, and has us keeping more than we need, and giving so much less to others that we are also generating unprecedented amounts of waste. And sadly, our time will be known as one of a technological revolution, but instead of philosophy and art and great teachings left behind we're going to have styrofoam cups, nuclear waste, and a giant mass of things collected from all oceans of the world to say this is who we were.

 

[PureX]

The problem with philosophical materialism is that it places all importance on the ooze from which life and consciousness arise, rather than on the life and consciousness that arise from it. It ignores the transcendent nature of nature so it can claim there is none.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Materialism is defined as:

Materialism is a form of philosophical monism which holds that matter is the fundamental substance in nature, and that all things, including mental aspects and consciousness, are results of material interactions.In contrast to idealism, materialism concedes the primacy of material, not consciousness. Which means, material exists before consciousness, material creates and determines consciousness, not vice versa. Materialists believe that material is the ultimate origin of the existing world, and they aim to explain the world via materialistic reasons. (Materialism | Wikiwand)

There is an association between materialism as the obsessive and destructive desire for material possessions and earthly goods at the expense of the divine such as wealth, power, fame, etc. Its also closely associated with atheism, nihilism, communism, evolution, social Darwinism, etc and therefore treated negatively by many religious adherents for being in direct opposition and a threat to their beliefs. Secular critics often describe materialism as a faith, a dogma, a religion, or an excessive faith in scientific materialism (aka. "scientism").

Speaking as someone with strong materialist sympathies, I'm curious to better understand why it is so common for people on RF to dislike materialism and what I could do that would help improve its reputation. Do you have any specific issues or criticism of materialism you'd like to have addressed?

(Edit: Its not the whole story but I voted "positive" in the Poll).

I have no problem with materialism or philosophical materialists, but I think that the issue cannot be resolved at this time, and that therefore the proper stance is to be agnostic with regard to the choices. We should resist picking one, which would require taking a leap of faith.

Having said that, I would add that I have an intuition on the matter. I prefer neutral monism - the position that mind and matter are two manifestations of a prior substance that is both and neither the way that space and time are different faces of spacetime. It's the long list of unifications in the history of physics that points me in that direction - electricity unified to magnetism, both to the weak electrical force, matter and energy, etc..

But this is not a compelling argument for neutral monism, just a hunch, and so I remain agnostic.

Incidentally, you probably agree that conflating the lust for material objects as a source of happiness with a philosophical position that all phenomena are derivative of matter (or probably more properly, of energy) by calling both materialism, and then using the failure of the former as an argument against the latter is a classic equivocation fallacy.

Methodological materialism (physicalism is a better choice of words) is not a choice or philosophy, but something imposed upon us by nature. Even the detractors of materialism are quick to point out that science must confine its study to the physical world whether that is all that there is or not.

Materialism is probably better called physicalism inasmuch as matter is only one aspect of physical reality, which also features energy, force, space and time, all of which figure into investigating accessible reality.

 

[atanu]

Materialism is defined as:
Materialism is a form of philosophical monism which holds that matter is the fundamental substance in nature, and that all things, including mental aspects and consciousness, are results of material interactions.In contrast to idealism, materialism concedes the primacy of material, not consciousness. Which means, material exists before consciousness, material creates and determines consciousness, not vice versa. Materialists believe that material is the ultimate origin of the existing world, and they aim to explain the world via materialistic reasons. (Materialism | Wikiwand)

Please define matter.

 

[Polymath257]

Please define matter.

What is matter? Never mind.
What is mind? Doesn't matter.

 

[sun rise]

Materialism is defined as:

Materialism is a form of philosophical monism which holds that matter is the fundamental substance in nature, and that all things, including mental aspects and consciousness, are results of material interactions.In contrast to idealism, materialism concedes the primacy of material, not consciousness. Which means, material exists before consciousness, material creates and determines consciousness, not vice versa. Materialists believe that material is the ultimate origin of the existing world, and they aim to explain the world via materialistic reasons. (Materialism | Wikiwand)

There is an association between materialism as the obsessive and destructive desire for material possessions and earthly goods at the expense of the divine such as wealth, power, fame, etc. Its also closely associated with atheism, nihilism, communism, evolution, social Darwinism, etc and therefore treated negatively by many religious adherents for being in direct opposition and a threat to their beliefs. Secular critics often describe materialism as a faith, a dogma, a religion, or an excessive faith in scientific materialism (aka. "scientism").

Speaking as someone with strong materialist sympathies, I'm curious to better understand why it is so common for people on RF to dislike materialism and what I could do that would help improve its reputation. Do you have any specific issues or criticism of materialism you'd like to have addressed?

(Edit: Its not the whole story but I voted "positive" in the Poll).

Materialism as you've noted in the OP is reductionistic claiming that everything can be reduced to matter. That is not my view - matter is the manifestation of spirit.

 

[Kuzcotopia]

Please define matter.

Matter - Wikipedia

That was easy.