Third Wave Feminism is Basically Vivisection of the Cultural Nomos

[crossfire]

How many waves of feminism do they need before they can get it right?

Apparently enough to generally raise the consciousness of everyone (men & women & everyone else) to examine and critique the nomos intelligently. The natural reaction of a great many people is to avoid this, or to go into it kicking and screaming.

 

[Revoltingest]

How many waves of feminism do they need before they can get it right?

When they do get it right, it will be called "egalitarianism".
But beware of the fact that people don't change.....
A newspaper from 2316 just fell into my lap thru a wormhole in space.
On the front page is an article entitled....
"Quantum Entangled Encabulation of Vivisected 6.5th Wave Egalitarianism".

 

[crossfire]

When they do get it right, it will be called "egalitarianism".
But beware of the fact that people don't change.....
A newspaper from 2316 just fell into my lap thru a wormhole in space.
On the front page is an article entitled....
"Quantum Entangled Encabulation of Vivisected 6.5th Wave Egalitarianism".

I think we've made quite a bit of progress. Slavery is no longer seen as an acceptable thing, for one. I'd say that is a pretty big leap forward.

 

[Revoltingest]

I think we've made quite a bit of progress. Slavery is no longer seen as an acceptable thing, for one. I'd say that is a pretty big leap forward.

Detente!

 

[crossfire]

I think we've made quite a bit of progress. Slavery is no longer seen as an acceptable thing, for one. I'd say that is a pretty big leap forward.

Detente!

But look at the huge amount of kicking and screaming that went with it! (The Civil War.)

 

[Revoltingest]

But look at the huge amount of kicking and screaming that went with it! (The Civil War.)

Sometimes disagreements become violent.
But hey, at least the good guys won that one.

 

[Stevicus]

Apparently enough to generally raise the consciousness of everyone (men & women & everyone else) to examine and critique the nomos intelligently. The natural reaction of a great many people is to avoid this, or to go into it kicking and screaming.

Is it really like that? As I mentioned, second wave feminism occurred during the 60s and 70s, and for the most part, a lot of people were okay with it - or at least they understood it. Equality. Some people may have been kicking and screaming, but it didn't matter by the 1980s since it was established and normalized.

So, I ask you, what was wrong with the message of feminism as it was expressed in the second wave that required a third wave?

 

[Stevicus]

When they do get it right, it will be called "egalitarianism".
But beware of the fact that people don't change.....
A newspaper from 2316 just fell into my lap thru a wormhole in space.
On the front page is an article entitled....
"Quantum Entangled Encabulation of Vivisected 6.5th Wave Egalitarianism".

A newspaper from 2316? That would have been five years after the signing of the Treaty of Algeron. That was also the same time they will be inventing multiplex pattern buffers to end the scourge of transporter psychosis.

Gender equality is mentioned in the preamble of the Federation Charter.

 

[Revoltingest]

A newspaper from 2316? That would have been five years after the signing of the Treaty of Algeron. That was also the same time they will be inventing multiplex pattern buffers to end the scourge of transporter psychosis.

Gender equality is mentioned in the preamble of the Federation Charter.

Where's that <nerd> rating when needed?

 

[Stevicus]

Where's that <nerd> rating when needed?

 

[crossfire]

Is it really like that? As I mentioned, second wave feminism occurred during the 60s and 70s, and for the most part, a lot of people were okay with it - or at least they understood it. Equality. Some people may have been kicking and screaming, but it didn't matter by the 1980s since it was established and normalized.

So, I ask you, what was wrong with the message of feminism as it was expressed in the second wave that required a third wave?

As per the linked essay in the opening post, part of the psychological development of women (animus individuation) requires bringing the cultural nomos (what feminism calls The Patriarchy) into consciousness, examining it, and separating the programming from the nomos from what the individual actually thinks. Hence, third wave feminism as vivisection of the nomos. Part of the possible side effects along the way might be animus possession. Some of the observable expressions of animus possession by feminists in the midst of this transition might be feminazism, where the animus is at the lower level of development as "man of physical power/thug," or Social Justice Warriors whose animus is at the level of development of "man of action/romance."

I'm trying to bring this animus development aspect into consciousness so as to make feminists aware of the animus possession and recognize it when it happens.

 

[Willamena]

More info for this discussion:
"The difference between feminism and egalitarianism is that feminism actively uncovers and critiques the cultural nomos, which feminists call "The Patriarchy." (Feminism is antinomian.)"

A "cultural nomos" is otherwise known as a norm?

 

[Willamena]

Hmm. I have been told previously that third wave feminism is significantly different from other waves, which seem to be labeled by chronological order. Different to the point of actual mutual incompatibility, perhaps.

The eventual goal seems to be egalitarian in nature, but that may be difficult to tell for certain and is probably of little practical significance, at least in the foreseeable future.

That, because the present time stances are of course more significant than those of a hypothetical future. And those current stances of TWF (if I may use this shorthand) involve mainly exposing and challenging the male-normative thinking that are peppered through so much of current culture, for various purposes, of which furthering the rate of cultural change is not necessarily the most significant.

I have a hunch that another such purpose, perhaps a more urgent one, is offering a voice, an expression channel, a lamplight if you will for those women who would otherwise end up being told to be patient and suffer subtle, often unconscious and even unintentional discrimination "until things change". Which I find understandable; such advice, well intentioned as it may sometimes be, amounts to an appeal for suffering in silence. And silent suffering is horrendously harmful.

How accurate does this sound, @crossfire ? I welcome comments that might help in furthering my grasp of this subject matter.

Third wave feminism, if I understand it correctly, is as far from egalitarianism as one can get. It is the radical, chauvinistic feminism.

 

[crossfire]

A "cultural nomos" is otherwise known as a norm?

No, it's bigger than that. What feminism refers to as "The Patriarchy" is the cultural nomos.

 

[Willamena]

No, it's bigger than that. What feminism refers to as "The Patriarchy" is the cultural nomos.

I've always considered patriarchy to be a norm. We only have it because we all buy into it.

 

[MikeDwight]

A thread for revoltingest and feminism? I suddenly had this in the back in my head as mildly amusing.

it'll give me a chance for an edit for an interesting look at the "Third Wave".

 

[MikeDwight]

Sorry that is all so theoretical and technical. Did anyone see Emma Watson in her accent on Feminism at the United Nations. OK wait Hermione on Harry Potter is a feminist … A. because she runs with the wolves B. because she's better at spells than everybody C. Harry Potter crush. I don't get it. One of those in there we start looking to Emma Watson for feminism, and plus I can't hear it out of Brits anyway, funny video, look at this.

 

[crossfire]

I've always considered patriarchy to be a norm. We only have it because we all buy into it.

Well, yes. Hence, the reason for bringing it into consciousness and examining it. (I consider a norm to be a specific instance of a mannerism, whereas a nomos is the entire cultural egregore.)