Thomas Jefferson quote

[EyeofOdin]

"Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear."

Just thought this would make an interesting discussion.

 

[Simplelogic]

I have a deep amount of respect for Thomas Jefferson. He did not conform to man made theology and he took personal responsibility for his faith. There are few men in the world like him.

 

[nazz]

"Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear."

Why does that follow?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

"Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear."

Just thought this would make an interesting discussion.

He's wrong.

 

[Erock13]

Why does that follow?

It doesn't. Hypothetically, a wicked god could exist as easily as a just and merciful one. The implication, though, is that any god worth understanding or believing in wouldn't care about questioning its existence, given that it cares whether or not we know or believe it exists.

 

[nazz]

It doesn't. Hypothetically, a wicked god could exist as easily as a just and merciful one. The implication, though, is that any god worth understanding or believing in wouldn't care about questioning its existence, given that it cares whether or not we know or believe it exists.

That's a much better way to phrase it and I think that is probably what Jefferson had in mind.

 

[Riverwolf]

I believe in benevolent, malevolent, and apathetic Gods. Fear, being a very primal part of what it means to be human(which Lovecraft named the "oldest and strongest emotion of mankind"), can be used to further benevolence, such as instilling fear of something genuinely dangerous so it will be avoided (like a parent telling a child that there's monsters outside at night, so don't leave the house or they'll get you); or malevolence, such as threatening punishment for actions that are otherwise unrelated (like a parent threatening to send a child to bed without supper if they don't stop singing).

There are Gods that will approve of people wisely questioning their existences, and there are Gods that will take offense at such hubris. Still other Gods will just laugh at the matter, not caring one way or another what people believe.

As for what God is "worth understanding or believing in", that depends on the values of the worshiper or community. A person/tribe who holds the intellect in high regard might find Sex Gods as being unworthy of worship, while a person/tribe who lives for sexual experiences might find Knowledge Gods unworthy of worship.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I suspect that thinking about Jefferson's quote within the context of his time and worldview is useful. To me, he's simply stating that using the brain God gave us would not be offensive to that very God.

It's entirely sensible if you thinking along Christian - Deist - Atheist lines, which I suspect is where his audience lay (using the term atheist a little loosely there).
It makes entirely less sense if you were considering Native American religions, for example, but that is beside the point in this case, in my opinion.

 

[ChristineES]

"Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear."

Just thought this would make an interesting discussion.

Makes sense. I am continually questioning things in my life, including my faith. I haven't changed my mind, yet, however. I probably never will.

 

[George-ananda]

I like the quote; for the intellectual person can not be happy without exploring all angles. This is true for most RF'ers.

I hate though to see the simple faith of the less intellectual people ridiculed in front of them be haughty type intellectuals....not sure how this applies to Jefferson's quote but I just felt like saying it......I think Jesus ripped these haughty types too; something about tying a brimstone around their necks

 

[George-ananda]

.....I think Jesus ripped these haughty types too; something about tying a brimstone around their necks

Ah, found it in the Bible:

…5"And whoever receives one such child in My name receives Me; 6but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

 

[EyeofOdin]

For me, I'm a Germanic Polytheist. I've seen evidence of my gods. I wouldn't honor them with offerings and hymns if I didn't know for fact that they're existence is factual. Then when I think about it, who am I to say another culture's deities aren't factual?

I also feel my gods (and all divinities for that matter) would agree with Thomas Jefferson. They'd applaud someone for being rational rather than following tradition blindly.

 

[Riverwolf]

I like the quote; for the intellectual person can not be happy without exploring all angles. This is true for most RF'ers.

I hate though to see the simple faith of the less intellectual people ridiculed in front of them be haughty type intellectuals....not sure how this applies to Jefferson's quote but I just felt like saying it......I think Jesus ripped these haughty types too; something about tying a brimstone around their necks

I call it intellectual elitism. The implication (even if unintended) that people who are not on the same intellectual level as you are basically second-class at best. Or that illiteracy is some kind of horrific, deadly sin that's an indication either of lack of intelligence, or primitive, savage barbarism.