Those politicians want the draft because they crave for wars the citizens will not support

[Revoltingest]

But I know what you think....

Your posts show that
to often be untrue.

 

[Estro Felino]

Your posts show that
to often be untrue.

Ukrainians deserve to live too. Not only Gazans.

 

[Revoltingest]

Ukrainians deserve to live too. Not only Gazans.

Ugandans also deserve to live too. Not only Uzbeks.

 

[Twilight Hue]

That is what Tulsi Gabbard said to Bill Maher.

I mean...the elitist, empious, Satanic gangs that support both the Left and Conservatives (both, I can promise you that) are thirsty for the blood of American soldiers, that is why the draft is something they would love.

Thoughts?

These platitudes usually comes from the mouths of people who haven't really felt the pressure and scope of actually facing a war themselves on a personal level.

 

[Revoltingest]

These platitudes usually comes from the mouths of people who haven't really felt the pressure and scope of actually facing a war themselves on a personal level.

I've heard platitudes from veterans too,
eg, one must obey government.

 

[Estro Felino]

These platitudes usually comes from the mouths of people who haven't really felt the pressure and scope of actually facing a war themselves on a personal level.

I think that nobody like us Europeans have seen how destructive war is. Since WW2.
So I am really disgusted that we as a country, despite that awareness, belong to the NATO, which is a warmongering organization, and is also unconstitutional, given that we can only belong to peace-promoting organizations.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

The most awful wars were fought during the administration of the guy from Kenya (or Hawaii or Indonesia?)

These are the kinds of comments that undermine any objectivity you'd like to be credited with. Why identify Obama with those wars, and so disrespectfully? Bush started the Iraqi war, and began its end, which Obama completed.

Bush also started the Afghani war, which both Bush and Trump continued, and Biden ended.

Yet these wars are in your mind linked to "the guy from Kenya (or Hawaii or Indonesia)."

Do you think that the USA should send its own soldiers to help the Sorosian regime of Kiev?

This, too. You sound a lot like an American of the MAGA persuasion, which is unusual for non-Americans in my experience. I've seen it in some Canadians, but only one or two out of a few hundred I know or have known in Mexico (paradoxically, we had to move south to meet more of our northern neighbors; I only knew two people who I knew were Canadians in the 55 years I lived in the States).

There are certain catchphrases that serve as litmus tests. Sorosian is among them. Nobody writes like that in the States but conservative ideologues influenced by conservative indoctrination media. I would never use that word both because I never have any reason to refer to the man, and if I did, I wouldn't want to be mistaken for one of those people.

I am saddened by the fact that you cannot acknowledge that this Ukrainian War is identical to the Iraqi War. Both wanted by elitist circles of people serving banking élites, who benefit from the sale of warfare.

That wasn't my topic or point. Why would I comment on that? I was talking about Americans fighting wars at the orders of Americans, what those fighting them believed, and what I thought was the actual case. I had no reason to introduce Putin or Ukraine.

But if you want me to equate Bush's invasion of Iraq with Putin's invasion of Ukraine, OK. They were both unjust and illegal wars fought under false pretenses in the name of higher principles but actually to increase somebody's wealth.

if you want to convince me that the American people are okay with sending billions to Ukraine, just make a referendum.

Why do you think I want to convince you of that? It's OK whatever you believe on the subject. Your ideas seem extreme and incorrect to me, but I don't mind you having them.

Maybe you don't understand how it works in America. Citizens only have a say when they vote. They elected Biden, and Biden wanted to support Ukraine. Most of the Democrats and a handful of Republicans in Congress agreed, and they were elected as well. If the citizens are unhappy with something a president does, they can only express that at the ballot box and with their contributions and activism at election time.

You imply that Italians citizens have more influence between election than that, and I can't speak to that. You may be correct, but your other expressed opinions cause me to question that one.

Maybe you don't mind that, but that's what I mean when I said that the comment about the guy from Hawaii, Kenya, or Indonesia and the one about a Sorosian regime make me question your knowledge, judgment, and agenda. You don't need to modify a thing the way you express yourself unless you'd like more respect and be considered more credible, in which case you might want to know how such phrases are understood by many in America and maybe elsewhere.

The Obama comment comes from the same place as Trump's birtherism comments about Obama and his comments about Harris' chameleonic, ad hoc heritage. It impugns the integrity of the target.

I know a referendum has never taken place in the USA. You should making them. It's called democracy.

Not me. I haven't lived there in fifteen years (and two days - just had an anniversary of that expatriation).

And America seems to be ambivalent regarding how it feels about democracy, which is why the Republicans attempt to suppress voting and cut off aid to Ukraine yet keep getting reelected by American voters. That's also democracy for as long as it lasts.

NATO, which is a warmongering organization

Yet NATO, which is a defensive alliance, is in opposition to both Putin and Netanyahu.

 

[fantome profane]

Actual reasons I recall hearing for the draft.....
- Builds character in men.
- Mixing of different classes & races. (A favored
social engineering reason among liberals.)
- It's cheaper to force men to serve than to pay
enuf to entice them to volunteer.
- It's necessary to defend the country because
there's a ready supply of men to become soldiers.

I am not in favour of any draft. I want to make that clear before I say what I am about to say. I completely agree with your signature concerning the draft. It is evil, it should never even be considered.

But that said, there is one unintended consequence of abolishing the draft that should be addressed. And that is the "forever wars" we see in the world today. Because these wars are fought with volunteers, and paid mercenaries, we don't see the outrage from the citizenry that we should see. If people were drafted for these wars, they would not be allowed to go on.

But again, I repeat, the draft is evil and should never be considered for a second.

But we also need to understand the unintended consequence and address that somehow.

 

[We Never Know]

I am not in favour of any draft. I want to make that clear before I say what I am about to say. I completely agree with your signature concerning the draft. It is evil, it should never even be considered.

But that said, there is one unintended consequence of abolishing the draft that should be addressed. And that is the "forever wars" we see in the world today. Because these wars are fought with volunteers, and paid mercenaries, we don't see the outrage from the citizenry that we should see. If people were drafted for these wars, they would not be allowed to go on.

But again, I repeat, the draft is evil and should never be considered for a second.

But we also need to understand the unintended consequence and address that somehow.

Do you mean forever wars like the ones in Afghanistan where Russia spent around 10 years and the US spent around 20 years but they are still fighting each other?

 

[Estro Felino]

And America seems to be ambivalent regarding how it feels about democracy, which is why the Republicans attempt to suppress voting and cut off aid to Ukraine yet keep getting reelected by American voters. That's also democracy for as long as it lasts.

It's not aid. It's billions with the imposition to use Ukrainian soldiers as cannon fodder because those demons, those imps, those devils who live in your fatherland want to conquer Russia and use Ukrainians as proxy.

Yet NATO, which is a defensive alliance, is in opposition to both Putin and Netanyahu.

NATO is a warlike organization.
If it were a peace-promoting organization, it would work on trying to ease a negotiation between Russia and Ukraine.

 

[Estro Felino]

open your eyes, guys

 

[Revoltingest]

I am not in favour of any draft. I want to make that clear before I say what I am about to say. I completely agree with your signature concerning the draft. It is evil, it should never even be considered.

But that said, there is one unintended consequence of abolishing the draft that should be addressed. And that is the "forever wars" we see in the world today. Because these wars are fought with volunteers, and paid mercenaries, we don't see the outrage from the citizenry that we should see. If people were drafted for these wars, they would not be allowed to go on.

But again, I repeat, the draft is evil and should never be considered for a second.

But we also need to understand the unintended consequence and address that somehow.

Sure, outrage is greater when the soldiers are enslaved,
which is what conscription really is. I hope you're not
arguing that slavery is useful because it makes people
angrier at war.
Anyway, there were protests against the Viet Nam war
(when the draft was on) & there were protests against
the Afghan & Iraq wars (when all were volunteers).
And currently, we're only assisting in wars, eg, Ukraine
against Russia, Israel's genocide in Gaza.

If people really want less war, there's a better solution
than what amounts to coerced decimation.....
Don't vote for war mongers.

 

[fantome profane]

I hope you're not
arguing that slavery is useful

I can always count on you to misconstrue the point no matter how clear I make it. I stated clearly and repeatedly that "the draft is evil and should never be considered for a second". I don't know how much clearer I could have made it.

Nevermind. Other people got my point even if you choose to be deliberately obtuse.

 

[Revoltingest]

I can always count on you to misconstrue the point no matter how clear I make it.

You should notice that my statement
assumed you weren't claiming the
advantages of slavery.

Other people got my point even if you choose to be deliberately obtuse.

That's ironic, given that you missed
my generous assumption.
Be smarter.

 

[Father Heathen]

As for that beta male talking to her, I would tell him: dearest, if you love war so much, why don't you go to Ukraine to fight against Russians?

What makes someone a "beta male"? Also, those who hate war also oppose unprovoked invasions and war crimes. The warmongers are those who support Putin. Blaming Ukraine for defending themselves and those who support them is like blaming victims for their own rape. You're aren't a rape apologist, are you?

 

[Estro Felino]

What makes someone a "beta male"?

Well...it's a bit complicated to explain it... let's not go there.

Also, those who hate war also oppose unprovoked invasions and war crimes.

Yes. In fact Ukraine could successfully avoid a complete invasion of the country.
But those four regions belong to the Russian Federation now. Plus Crimea.

Now it's Ukraine who is invading Russia and Russian territories. So it's the American élites who are paying Ukrainians to attack Russians. And I am speaking of Russian civilians. Not Russian soldiers. That's unfair.

The warmongers are those who support Putin.

Not quite. He has proposed peace.
His conditions: the Russian Federation keeps the four regions plus Crimea.

Blaming Ukraine for defending themselves and those who support them is like blaming victims for their own rape. You're aren't a rape apologist, are you?

In this case it's Ukrainians who are invading Russian territories...
on behalf of the godless élites...who live on both shores of the Atlantic.

 

[Father Heathen]

Well...it's a bit complicated to explain it... let's not go there.

Why not? You wouldn't have used the phrase if you didn't wish to convey something with it.

Yes. In fact Ukraine could successfully avoid a complete invasion of the country.
But those four regions belong to the Russian Federation now. Plus Crimea.

Why? Because some random Italian transwoman declare it so?

Now it's Ukraine who is invading Russia and Russian territories. So it's the American élites who are paying Ukrainians to attack Russians. And I am speaking of Russian civilians. Not Russian soldiers. That's unfair.

How it "unfair" for the Ukrainian people to defend their lives, land, and liberty from an unprovoked invasion and war crimes? Again, you're using rape apologist logic.

Not quite. He has proposed peace.
His conditions: the Russian Federation keeps the four regions plus Crimea.

"Surrender and let me steal your land after I tortured and murdered thousands of your civilians, including children" is a ****ty "peace proposal". Appeasing terrorists and tyrants would set a very dangerous precedent.
If I went to Italy, could I walk into a restaurant, slap the chef, swipe a pizza, and walk out without any sort of reprisal?

In this case it's Ukrainians who are invading Russian territories...
on behalf of the godless élites...who live on both shores of the Atlantic.

Maybe the Russians should withdraw and go home for the sake of peace. If you think the illegal invaders should stay then that makes you the warmonger.

 

[Estro Felino]

Why not? You wouldn't have used the phrase if you didn't wish to convey something with it.

I'll start some thread in the next days.

How it "unfair" for the Ukrainian people to defend their lives, land, and liberty from an unprovoked invasion and war crimes? Again, you're using rape apologist logic.

I am not.
Just read updated news.

"Surrender and let me steal your land after I tortured and murdered thousands of your civilians, including children" is a ****ty "peace proposal". Appeasing terrorists and tyrants would set a very dangerous precedent.

We Italians too surrendered to Americans.
We lost countless territories after WW2. We've moved on,
so I tell Ukrainians: do move on and don't annoy us.

If I went to Italy, could I walk into a restaurant, slap the chef, swipe a pizza, and walk out without any sort of reprisal?

There has been a reprisal: Ukraine successfully made Russians withdraw from Kiev and the rest of the country,

Maybe the Russians should withdraw and go home for the sake of peace. If you think the illegal invaders should stay then that makes you the warmonger.

They have already withdrawn. The four regions are theirs now.

 

[Father Heathen]

I'll start some thread in the next days.

I am not.

Yes, you are. Your logic is precisely the same as rape apology. You blame the victim rather than the assailant.

Just read updated news.

So Russia is experiencing what it has been inflicting upon Ukraine; a small taste of its own medicine. If they want it to end they could simply go home.

We Italians too surrendered to Americans.
We lost countless territories after WW2. We've moved on,
so I tell Ukrainians: do move on and don't annoy us.

The very huge and obvious difference is that Italy was sided with the tyrants and terrorists, the criminals and aggressors. Italy wasn't innocent. Would you really tell those whose children were tortured, raped, murdered, trafficked, etc. by Russian forces to "move on"?

There has been a reprisal: Ukraine successfully made Russians withdraw from Kiev and the rest of the country,

They have already withdrawn. The four regions are theirs now.

I declare your domicile mine. Vacate immediately.

 

[Estro Felino]

Yes, you are. Your logic is precisely the same as rape apology. You blame the victim rather than the assailant.

So Russia is experiencing what it has been inflicting upon Ukraine; a small taste of its own medicine. If they want it to end they could simply go home.

The very huge and obvious difference is that Italy was sided with the tyrants and terrorists, the criminals and aggressors. Italy wasn't innocent. Would you really tell those whose children were tortured, raped, murdered, trafficked, etc. by Russian forces to "move on"?

I declare your domicile mine. Vacate immediately.

Look...
I don't intend to convince you.
Ukraine are the perpetrators here. They provoked this war, by persecuting Donbas people.
Period.
If you fail to acknowledge that, there is no point in debating.

You probably believe Hillary. I believe Tulsi. There's a big difference.