Those who say the Bible is without contradiction, have obviously never read it!

[Spiderman]

Leah was a rapist, the greatest Matriarch that Jesus, Mary, Moses, the Papacy, the Levitical priesthood, and the Church descend from, the most blessed and sacred bloodline in Scripture, and the most influential bloodline in history (at least regarding Abrahamic monotheism, but not limited to).....was obtained through dishonesty, deception, theft, and rape on Leah's end.


Jacob made himself a slave for seven years to get with Rachel, not Leah, so she stole 7 years wages from the most anointed man, after changing divine decree with her tears (rebellion), and her Father Laban made sure that before she approached him , veiled in the dark, Leah's father also taking advantage of Jacob's naive , drunk , virginal innocence....Jacob spent much time drinking and dancing prior to the vows, so that they be lead into a tent , in the pitch black of night, without candles, and the marriage be consummated, without him knowing he was having sex and binding matrimony with a woman he never would have consented to.

Rape is a strong word, but if you look at all the factors present there, the most holy man on earth possibly losing his virginity and 7 years worth of labor wages to a counterfeit that he never intended to make it to second base with, theft, deception, (it was a total and complete violation of the mind, soul, and body in every sense of the word with the exception of physically restraining him, + abuse of a holy matrimony sacrement) and the literal darkness necessary to create the most holy bloodline in history, that the Messiah , and all the old testament priesthoods had to descend from.

The most sacred was Matriarch, was by God's will, desire, plan, destiny, obtained through dishonesty, deception, theft, and unconsenting sexual intercourse (rape) on Leah's end.

Let's look on Jacob's end.....

Israel means "Contender with God " (one who fights with God). It was the name given to Jacob after he fought someone all night, that it turned out was God, who said "Let Go". Jacob made it clear that his will came before the will of God, and said "I will not let you go until you bless me", give me what I want. The scripture then says"you have fought with God and you have won"!

Jacob had Loyalty to Rebecca telling him to steal the reward that Esau's labors earned, by claiming to be Esau, dressing like Esau, presenting the work of Rebecca and claiming it as his own, wearing the skin of kids, pulling the right strings, convincing his drunk father that he was the one loyal to the father (Jacob had loyalty only to Rebecca, above God or Isaac who was the Pope back then. Pope means Pappa, and he had the greatest powers of binding and loosing).

He received the blessing "Blessed are those who bless you, cursed are those who curse you. In and through you, all shall find their blessing"(salvation, redemption). That is the greatest blessing given to anyone in scripture, and it was obtained only through loyalty to a woman telling him to lie, steal, deceive, impersonate someone else, take credit for someone else's work, receive the reward of it.

So, that is the male and female end of the bloodline that Jesus and Christianity descends from, but also Moses, and sacred tribe of Levi, whose inheritance was God instead of land …


But also, God says “thou shall not kill"….but God has the highest kill count in scripture. After saying “Thou shall not make a graven image of any animal on earth.” He has asked Moses to create a brazen image of the most evil animal associated with the fall of mankind, a graven image of a serpent on a pole, and people had to look at it for healing, depend on it for survival.



If God were to make them kneel before a golden calf for their healing after punishing them for it, that would not contradict the commands, or character of God any more than that or what is in Scripture. God says to do the opposite things.



I love Leah. She’s great, and I’m trying to imitate Jacob’s devotion to Rebecca, and contending with God, so, I’m just telling it like it is. She sort of had to rape Jacob for deeper reasons than sexual gratification. She did it to save the world.



Also, I love much of the Bible, and base much of my life on it, love the virgin Mary and am visited from souls on the other side. I’m not an atheist, just sick of Christians who refuse to identify what is obvious about God and in the Bible.



There are many humans that clearly outdo God in the virtue of charity, and God wanted Jesus executed before anyone else did. And the first Christians did not say the Bible was the only rule of sacred theology. It wasn’t their primary guide. They didn’t even know what the new testament was for centuries.



So, the way the Bible is used to demonize practices like prayers to Mary, the Rosary, some of the mothers in Heaven that actually make sense and are not serial killers like Yahweh, make me want to defend the devotions that helped me more than Jesus or his father.

I'm just trying to keep the peace, not upset the humble people. I saw someone publicly damning people to hell recently on a college campus, and it just really got under my skin.

 

[Spiderman]

That was a time where women were used as property, so I actually admire what Leah did to escape some other marriage...

But Leah did violate Jacob in a way that made him so angry, there is not sign in scripture of him ever forgiving her. When he eventually did Marry Rachel, they bullied Leah, and with every child her fertile womb bore him, when God revealed his favor for Leah as the greatest contribution to his descendants and family, Leah hoped in vain for her husband to finally love , want , and accept her...

So, Leah represents being out of place, rejected, unwanted, and made guilty of feelings like a person with a criminal past they cannot erase. So, she became the symbol for the crucified Messiah and the cross Christ told his followers they must carry daily, with rejection...

But also how heaven can favor and bless such people and tragic situations

I definitely was not trying to insult Leah, and she knows my sense of humor. Im just giving her due props, boasting...no one else could pull something off like that or ever has to such an influential, vital extent!

There is a saying from Rabbis, "Rachel must die, you can only take Leah to the promised land (paradise). " Leah is buried with Jacob. Rachel was made barren for her treatment of Leah, then died giving childbirth, with her second child Benjamin.

Rachel represents the appetites of the flesh, need for comfort, good reputation, paradise on earth. That must die. Leah, that bitterness, that feeling of discomfort, the path of most resistance, fasting, sacrifice, piety, charity, forgiving debtors, growing in virtue... being a Martyr, growing in holiness, is what Leah represents...the cross, the crown of thorns, the discomfort of sharing in the passion of her descendant, Jesus Christ...
... This is why she was laid to rest with Jacob, not Rachel. It was symbolic. She was also the moon in Joseph's prophetic dream. She used literal darkness to create light , salvation, prophets, church, Messiah... the moon is the greatest light in the darkness

So, Leah was clearly the most important bride, and her hopes were in vain that Jacob would love her. That likely stems from the fact that Jacob felt like he was played, fooled, lost his virginity to a rapist, and a thief...that it was traumatic for him, humiliating, and he was very angry, which is typical with rape.

Even when you have fully forgiven the person, even understand or sympathize with why they did it, there can be PTSD and trust issues that would make it very unpleasant living under the same roof with them. And how angry Jacob was about it, it was unconsenting sex that made him very angry . That is why I called it rape .

But the Bible does say a virgin should marry her rapist if her father gets paid the right amount of coins or goats...

I think we should not use the Bible to correct people who have found healing, graces in religious practices nor sanctioned in scripture.

God called Cyrus the great "my Messiah" in Isaiah 45, and he did not know God, he praised the whore of Babylon, mother of harlots Inanna, built the temple, and is the only Messiah that most Jews accept as Messiah. So does their God. But he resembles prophecies about who the antichrist will be more than any historical figure I know of as well.

He fulfilled many of those prophecies, predictions. Scripture causes people to argue, argue, judge, divide, and kill

Religion should be sweet, peaceful, mature, love, amusement, charitable...not using a book that contradicts itself to divide, condemn, or put fear into people

 

[1213]

Those who say the Bible is without contradiction, have obviously never read it!

Those who say Bible has contradictions, have never understood it correctly.

....It was the name given to Jacob after he fought someone all night, that it turned out was God,

If you read the whole text, you can notice the one fought was a man according to the Bible. It would be good to read the whole book.

...God says “thou shall not kill….but has the highest kill count.” ...

It would be good to notice the correct word is, murder, don't murder.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Those who say Bible has contradictions, have never understood it correctly.

If you read the whole text, you can notice the one fought was a man according to the Bible. It would be good to read the whole book.

It would be good to notice the correct word is, murder, don't murder.

When was Jesus born? Roughly what year? If you have read and understood the Bible you should know.

 

[Spiderman]

Those who say Bible has contradictions, have never understood it correctly.

If you read the whole text, you can notice the one fought was a man according to the Bible. It would be good to read the whole book.

It would be good to notice the correct word is, murder, don't murder.

God can be a man . Scripture says "you have fought with God and won. " His name was changed to Israel, meaning, contender, one who fights with God . It is obvious who he was fighting with. Please cease with your dishonesty. No one is buying it.

Yes, people will pretend that the Bible doesn't contradict itself. But if they read the whole thing, they know they are lying.

 

[Spiderman]

Those who say Bible has contradictions, have never understood it correctly.

If you read the whole text, you can notice the one fought was a man according to the Bible. It would be good to read the whole book.

It would be good to notice the correct word is, murder, don't murder.

So, God killing pregnant women and babies, and people doing it because he asked them to go kill children they don't even know (genocides that God orders people, or the Angel of death to do in scripture) is not murder?.

I prefer to pray to non serial killer entities, pray to their victims and honor them, and only communicate with a serial killer if I'm trying to prevent him from killing again.

 

[1213]

When was Jesus born? Roughly what year?

I believe it was roughly 2024 years ago.

 

[1213]

So, God killing pregnant women and babies, and people doing it because he asked them to go kill children they don't even know (genocides that God orders people, or the Angel of death to do in scripture) is not murder?.

Murder is unjust killing. If God kills, I believe there is always just reason, and therefore it is not murder. In my opinion the story of Nineveh shows that God doesn't kill or order to kill lightly without a good reason.

"Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and preach against it, for their wickedness has come up before me."
Jonah 1:2
Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried out, and said, "Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be over-thrown!"
Jonah 3:4
but let them be covered with sackcloth, both man and animal, and let them cry mightily to God. Yes, let them turn everyone from his evil way, and from the violence that is in his hands. Who knows whether God will not turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, so that we might not perish?" God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way. God re-pented of the evil which he said he would do to them, and he didn't do it.
Jonah 3:8-10
But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he was angry. He prayed to Yahweh, and said, "Please, Yahweh, wasn't this what I said when I was still in my own country? Therefore I hurried to flee to Tarshish, for I knew that you are a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and abundant in loving kindness, and you repent of the evil.
Jonah 4:1-2
Shouldn't I be concerned for Nineveh, that great city, in which are more than one hundred twenty thousand persons who can't discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?
Jonah 4:11

And, even if God allows a righteous person to die, it is not the end as the story about Jesus shows. Bible promises eternal life for righteous. So, even if it would be so that a righteous person dies, it is not the end and therefore the death is not a problem, in Biblical point of view.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Matt. 25:46
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23
Don't be afraid of those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul. Rather, fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna....
Matt. 10:28-31

 

[1213]

God can be a man ...

I think Numbers 23:19 means God is not man, for example because it is also said God is spirit and love.

God is not a man,
Numbers 23:19

Being then the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold, or silver, or stone, engraved by art and design of man.
Acts 17:29
God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.
John 4:24
He who doesn't love doesn't know God, for God is love.
1 John 4:8
We know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and he who remains in love remains in God, and God remains in him.
1 John 4:16

 

[Subduction Zone]

I believe it was roughly 2024 years ago.

You need to be more precise than that. Or you can admit that you have no clue.

 

[I Am Hugh]

When was Jesus born? Roughly what year? If you have read and understood the Bible you should know.

Josephus said of Herod's painful death: "an intolerable itching of the whole skin, continuous pains in the intestines, tumors in the feet as in dropsy, inflammation of the abdomen and gangrene of the privy parts, engendering worms, in addition to asthma, with great difficulty in breathing, and convulsions in all his limbs." (Jewish Wars 1:656)

The problem with the dating of his death when considering Bible chronology is that some put it in the year 5 or 4 BCE based primarily upon Josephus' history. In dating Herod's being appointed as king by Rome Josephus uses a consular dating, which is a location of events occurring during the rule of certain Roman consuls. According to this method Herod was appointed as king in 40 BCE, but another historian - Appian - set the event in 39 BCE.

Josephus places Herod's capture of Jerusalem at 37 BCE but he also says that this occurred 27 years after the capture of the city by Pompey which was in 63 BCE (Jewish Antiquities 14:487) So in that case the date of Herod taking the city of Jerusalem would be 36 BCE so 37 years from the time that he was appointed king by the Romans and 34 years after he took Jerusalem (Jewish Antiquities 17:188) would indicate the date of his death as 2 or 1 BCE.

It might be that Josephus counted the reigns of the kings of Judea by the accession year method which was used in the case with the kings of the line of David.

If Herod was appointed king in 40 BCE his first regnal year would probably begin at Nisan 39 to Nisan 38 BCE. If counted from the capture of Jerusalem in 37 or 36 BCE his first regnal year would have started in Nisan 36 or 35 BCE. So, if Herod died 37 years after his appointment by Rome and 34 years after his capture of Jerusalem and those years are counted both according to his regnal year his death would have been 1 BCE.

In The Journal of Theological Studies (Edited by H. Chadwick and H. Sparks, Oxford, 1966, Vol. XVII, p. 284), W. E. Filmer indicates that Jewish tradition says that Herod's death occurred on Shevat (January - February) 2.

Josephus stated that Herod died not long after an eclipse of the moon and before a Passover (Jewish Antiquities 17:164). There was a partial eclipse on March 11, 4 BCE (March 13, Julian) and so some conclude that this was the eclipse mentioned by Josephus, but there was a total eclipse of the moon in 1 BCE about three months before Passover on January 8 (January 10, Julian) 18 days before Shevat 2 the traditional day of Herod's death.

There was also another partial eclipse on December 27 (December 29, Julian).

Most scholars date Herod's death as 4 BCE citing the March 11 eclipse as proof and so place the birth of Jesus as early as 5 BCE, but that eclipse was only 36 percent magnitude and early in the morning. The other two taking place in 1 BCE would both fit the requirement of having taken place not long before Passover. The one of December 27 would have been observable in Jerusalem but not as a conspicuous event. Oppolzer's Canon of Eclipses (p. 343), says the moon was passing out of the earth's shadow as twilight fell in Jerusalem so by the time it was dark the moon was shining full. That particular one isn't included in the Manfred Kudlek and Erich Mickler listing. I personally think you can rule that one out because it is uncertain that it was visible in Jerusalem.

The January 8, 1 BCE was a total eclipse where the moon was blacked out for 1 hour and 41 minutes and would have been noticed. (Solar and Lunar Eclipses of the Ancient Near East From 3000 BC to 0 With Maps, by M. Kudlek and E. H. Mickler; Neukirchen-Vluyn, Germany; 1971, Vol. I, p. 156.)

Also, the calculation of Herod's age at the time of death is thought to be about 70, according to Josephus and he received his appointment as governor of Galilee (generally dated 47 BCE) when he was 15, though scholars think that to be an error that should read 25. Though Josephus has many inconsistencies in his dating of events and is not the most reliable source. The most reliable source is the Bible itself.

The evidence is pretty clear that Herod likely died in the year 1 BCE as Luke says that John began baptizing in the 15th year of Tiberius Caesar. (Luke 3:1-3) Augustus died on August 17, 14 CE. On September 15, Tiberius was named emperor by the Roman Senate. They (the Romans) didn't use the accession year method so the 15th year would have run from the latter part of 28 CE to the latter part of 29 CE.

John was six months older than Jesus and began his ministry in the spring of that year (Luke 1:35-36) Jesus was born in the fall of the year and was about 30 years old when he came to John to be baptized (Luke 3:21-23) putting his baptism in the fall - about October of 29 CE. Counting back about 30 years would put us at the fall of 2 BCE, the birth of Jesus. Probably the first week of October. Daniel's prophecy of "70 weeks" points to the same time (Daniel 9:24-27) From the year 455 BCE when King Artaxerxes of Persia, in the 20th year of his rule, in the month of Nisan, gave the order to rebuild the wall of the city of Jerusalem (Nehemiah 2:1-8) to 29 CE when Jesus was baptized was 69 weeks or 483 years.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Murder is unjust killing. If God kills, I believe there is always just reason, and therefore it is not murder. In my opinion the story of Nineveh shows that God doesn't kill or order to kill lightly without a good reason.

Believe what you like, but killing infants who have not had time to give any possible reason for it is murder. And just to be clear, it is impossible to kill ALL the first born of Egypt without killing infants, just as it is impossible to wipe out whole populations (the flood or slaughter of the Canaanites) without killing infants.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Josephus said of Herod's painful death: "an intolerable itching of the whole skin, continuous pains in the intestines, tumors in the feet as in dropsy, inflammation of the abdomen and gangrene of the privy parts, engendering worms, in addition to asthma, with great difficulty in breathing, and convulsions in all his limbs." (Jewish Wars 1:656)

The problem with the dating of his death when considering Bible chronology is that some put it in the year 5 or 4 BCE based primarily upon Josephus' history. In dating Herod's being appointed as king by Rome Josephus uses a consular dating, which is a location of events occurring during the rule of certain Roman consuls. According to this method Herod was appointed as king in 40 BCE, but another historian - Appian - set the event in 39 BCE.

Josephus places Herod's capture of Jerusalem at 37 BCE but he also says that this occurred 27 years after the capture of the city by Pompey which was in 63 BCE (Jewish Antiquities 14:487) So in that case the date of Herod taking the city of Jerusalem would be 36 BCE so 37 years from the time that he was appointed king by the Romans and 34 years after he took Jerusalem (Jewish Antiquities 17:188) would indicate the date of his death as 2 or 1 BCE.

It might be that Josephus counted the reigns of the kings of Judea by the accession year method which was used in the case with the kings of the line of David.

If Herod was appointed king in 40 BCE his first regnal year would probably begin at Nisan 39 to Nisan 38 BCE. If counted from the capture of Jerusalem in 37 or 36 BCE his first regnal year would have started in Nisan 36 or 35 BCE. So, if Herod died 37 years after his appointment by Rome and 34 years after his capture of Jerusalem and those years are counted both according to his regnal year his death would have been 1 BCE.

In The Journal of Theological Studies (Edited by H. Chadwick and H. Sparks, Oxford, 1966, Vol. XVII, p. 284), W. E. Filmer indicates that Jewish tradition says that Herod's death occurred on Shevat (January - February) 2.

Josephus stated that Herod died not long after an eclipse of the moon and before a Passover (Jewish Antiquities 17:164). There was a partial eclipse on March 11, 4 BCE (March 13, Julian) and so some conclude that this was the eclipse mentioned by Josephus, but there was a total eclipse of the moon in 1 BCE about three months before Passover on January 8 (January 10, Julian) 18 days before Shevat 2 the traditional day of Herod's death.

There was also another partial eclipse on December 27 (December 29, Julian).

Most scholars date Herod's death as 4 BCE citing the March 11 eclipse as proof and so place the birth of Jesus as early as 5 BCE, but that eclipse was only 36 percent magnitude and early in the morning. The other two taking place in 1 BCE would both fit the requirement of having taken place not long before Passover. The one of December 27 would have been observable in Jerusalem but not as a conspicuous event. Oppolzer's Canon of Eclipses (p. 343), says the moon was passing out of the earth's shadow as twilight fell in Jerusalem so by the time it was dark the moon was shining full. That particular one isn't included in the Manfred Kudlek and Erich Mickler listing. I personally think you can rule that one out because it is uncertain that it was visible in Jerusalem.

The January 8, 1 BCE was a total eclipse where the moon was blacked out for 1 hour and 41 minutes and would have been noticed. (Solar and Lunar Eclipses of the Ancient Near East From 3000 BC to 0 With Maps, by M. Kudlek and E. H. Mickler; Neukirchen-Vluyn, Germany; 1971, Vol. I, p. 156.)

Also, the calculation of Herod's age at the time of death is thought to be about 70, according to Josephus and he received his appointment as governor of Galilee (generally dated 47 BCE) when he was 15, though scholars think that to be an error that should read 25. Though Josephus has many inconsistencies in his dating of events and is not the most reliable source. The most reliable source is the Bible itself.

The evidence is pretty clear that Herod likely died in the year 1 BCE as Luke says that John began baptizing in the 15th year of Tiberius Caesar. (Luke 3:1-3) Augustus died on August 17, 14 CE. On September 15, Tiberius was named emperor by the Roman Senate. They (the Romans) didn't use the accession year method so the 15th year would have run from the latter part of 28 CE to the latter part of 29 CE.

John was six months older than Jesus and began his ministry in the spring of that year (Luke 1:35-36) Jesus was born in the fall of the year and was about 30 years old when he came to John to be baptized (Luke 3:21-23) putting his baptism in the fall - about October of 29 CE. Counting back about 30 years would put us at the fall of 2 BCE, the birth of Jesus. Probably the first week of October. Daniel's prophecy of "70 weeks" points to the same time (Daniel 9:24-27) From the year 455 BCE when King Artaxerxes of Persia, in the 20th year of his rule, in the month of Nisan, gave the order to rebuild the wall of the city of Jerusalem (Nehemiah 2:1-8) to 29 CE when Jesus was baptized was 69 weeks or 483 years.

I would still say that 4 BCE is more likely than 1 BCE. The age difference between the Jesus and John the Baptist appears to be assumed more than it is supported. But let's say that it was 1 BCE. You went with the date in Matthew. Why didn't you go with the date in Luke?

 

[I Am Hugh]

God can be a man . Scripture says "you have fought with God and won. " His name was changed to Israel, meaning, contender, one who fights with God . It is obvious who he was fighting with. Please cease with your dishonesty. No one is buying it.

Yes, people will pretend that the Bible doesn't contradict itself. But if they read the whole thing, they know they are lying.

Who has seen God and what does it mean to see God 'face to face.?'

Did Abraham? Genesis 18:1-3 Note that Jehovah god is mistaken for one of the three men. Was God a man or an angel in the form of a man who represented God?

Did Moses? Numbers 12:8 - Note that it is an appearance of God that represents God to Moses.

Did Jacob? Genesis 32:30 - Note Hosea 12:2-4 points out that it was an angel who represented God that grappled with Jacob.

Did Manoah and his wife? Judges 13:2-22 - Note that the angel of Jehovah God is called Jehovah God.

Did Gideon? Judges 6:11-23 - Later Jehovah's angel came and sat under the big tree that was in Ophrah, which belonged to Joash the Abiezrite, while Gideon his son was beating out wheat in the winepress so as to get it quickly out of the sight of Midian. Then Jehovah's angel appeared to him and said to him: "Jehovah is with you, you valiant, mighty one." At this Gideon said to him: "Excuse me, my lord, but if Jehovah is with us, then why has all this come upon us, and where are all his wonderful acts that our fathers related to us, saying, 'Was it not out of Egypt that Jehovah brought us up?' And now Jehovah has deserted us, and he gives us into the palm of Midian." Upon that Jehovah faced him and said: "Go in this power of yours, and you will certainly save Israel out of Midian's palm. Do I not send you?" In turn he said to him: "Excuse me, Jehovah. With what shall I save Israel? Look! My thousand is the least in Manasseh, and I am the smallest in my father's house." But Jehovah said to him: "Because I shall prove to be with you, and you will certainly strike down Midian as if one man."

At this he said to him: "If, now, I have found favor in your eyes, you must also perform a sign for me that you are the one speaking with me. Do not, please, move away from here until I come to you and I have brought out my gift and set it before you." Accordingly, he said: "I, for my part, shall keep sitting here until you return." And Gideon went in and proceeded to make ready a kid of the goats and an ephah of flour as unfermented cakes. The meat he put in the basket, and the broth he put in the cooking pot, after which he brought it out to him under the big tree and served it.

The angel of the [true] God now said to him: "Take the meat and the unfermented cakes and set them on the big rock there, and pour out the broth." At that he did so. Then Jehovah's angel thrust out the tip of the staff that was in his hand and touched the meat and the unfermented cakes, and fire began to ascend out of the rock and to consume the meat and the unfermented cakes. As for Jehovah's angel, he vanished from his sight. Consequently, Gideon realized that it was Jehovah's angel.

At once Gideon said: "Alas, Sovereign Lord Jehovah, for the reason that I have seen Jehovah's angel face to face!" But Jehovah said to him: "Peace be yours. Do not fear. You will not die." So, Gideon built an altar there to Jehovah, and it continues to be called Jehovah-shalom down to this day. It is yet in Ophrah of the Abiezrites.

No man has seen God but a few have seen representations of him. The angels are, in a sense, at least to the people they deal with, the same as God.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Who has seen God and what does it mean to see God 'face to face.?'

Did Abraham? Genesis 18:1-3 Note that Jehovah god is mistaken for one of the three men. Was God a man or an angel in the form of a man who represented God?

Did Moses? Numbers 12:8 - Note that it is an appearance of God that represents God to Moses.

Did Jacob? Genesis 32:30 - Note Hosea 12:2-4 points out that it was an angel who represented God that grappled with Jacob.

Did Manoah and his wife? Judges 13:2-22 - Note that the angel of Jehovah God is called Jehovah God.

Did Gideon? Judges 6:11-23 - Later Jehovah's angel came and sat under the big tree that was in Ophrah, which belonged to Joash the Abiezrite, while Gideon his son was beating out wheat in the winepress so as to get it quickly out of the sight of Midian. Then Jehovah's angel appeared to him and said to him: "Jehovah is with you, you valiant, mighty one." At this Gideon said to him: "Excuse me, my lord, but if Jehovah is with us, then why has all this come upon us, and where are all his wonderful acts that our fathers related to us, saying, 'Was it not out of Egypt that Jehovah brought us up?' And now Jehovah has deserted us, and he gives us into the palm of Midian." Upon that Jehovah faced him and said: "Go in this power of yours, and you will certainly save Israel out of Midian's palm. Do I not send you?" In turn he said to him: "Excuse me, Jehovah. With what shall I save Israel? Look! My thousand is the least in Manasseh, and I am the smallest in my father's house." But Jehovah said to him: "Because I shall prove to be with you, and you will certainly strike down Midian as if one man."

At this he said to him: "If, now, I have found favor in your eyes, you must also perform a sign for me that you are the one speaking with me. Do not, please, move away from here until I come to you and I have brought out my gift and set it before you." Accordingly, he said: "I, for my part, shall keep sitting here until you return." And Gideon went in and proceeded to make ready a kid of the goats and an ephah of flour as unfermented cakes. The meat he put in the basket, and the broth he put in the cooking pot, after which he brought it out to him under the big tree and served it.

The angel of the [true] God now said to him: "Take the meat and the unfermented cakes and set them on the big rock there, and pour out the broth." At that he did so. Then Jehovah's angel thrust out the tip of the staff that was in his hand and touched the meat and the unfermented cakes, and fire began to ascend out of the rock and to consume the meat and the unfermented cakes. As for Jehovah's angel, he vanished from his sight. Consequently, Gideon realized that it was Jehovah's angel.

At once Gideon said: "Alas, Sovereign Lord Jehovah, for the reason that I have seen Jehovah's angel face to face!" But Jehovah said to him: "Peace be yours. Do not fear. You will not die." So, Gideon built an altar there to Jehovah, and it continues to be called Jehovah-shalom down to this day. It is yet in Ophrah of the Abiezrites.

No man has seen God but a few have seen representations of him. The angels are, in a sense, at least to the people they deal with, the same as God.

It could easily be argued that Hosea 12 2-4 is just another contradiction that was written to attempt to fix the one one in Genesis. By the way, Jacob cheated in the wrestling match if you understand the euphemism that was used in the story.

 

[I Am Hugh]

I would still say that 4 BCE is more likely than 1 BCE. The age difference between the Jesus and John the Baptist appears to be assumed more than it is supported.

Supported?

But let's say that it was 1 BCE. You went with the date in Matthew. Why didn't you go with the date in Luke?

How do you figure I went with either of them or there is a difference between the two?

 

[I Am Hugh]

It could easily be argued that Hosea 12 2-4 is just another contradiction that was written to attempt to fix the one one in Genesis.

Contextually, given the information in the post, that wouldn't be a good argument.

By the way, Jacob cheated in the wrestling match if you understand the euphemism that was used in the story.

Enlighten me.

 

[YellowFeather]

Majority of the world reads verses in the Bible but they do not read the whole word to understand the whole meaning of God. God is the creator of life, and he is also the one that will destroy what he created that does not follow his standards. God destroyed the earth 3 times in the bible. The first one was when he caused it to rain and flooded the entire world and only saved 1 family that believed in him and obeyed him. The world made fun of them that built the ark, but they where not laughing at Noah when the rain came they where crying to be saved. As one will due when then end comes now.

 

[YellowFeather]

When you raise your children to hate and to follow in the worlds ways then that is what they will do. God does not want anyone on the new earth to hate, kill or hurt others but only to love. Those who teach their children now to believe and obey God and treat others with respect and kindness are the ones God wants on his new kingdom.

 

[wellwisher]

I believe it was roughly 2024 years ago.

In terms of ancient history ending and a new dispensation beginning; BC changes to AD or BC=Before Christ and changes to AD=Anno Domini or the year of the Lord.


The main two ways I resolve contradictions in the Bible; Old Testament, is an evolving awareness, where although the past was appropriate to the past, as the times change, other conclusion are more appropriate in that future. The Bible is not a point in time, but a collection of points in time that span thousands of years. People are maturing, advancing and the times are changing.

In the case of the New Testament, it was written 150-200 hundred years after the fact. If you were an historian trying to write about the past, you would do your research and if two different accounts appeared, since you were not around to break the tie, if you were honest, you would include both, and not try to game the system by picking your favorite. If both descendants of these witnesses, seemed to be sincere, use both. Usually this occur from two different disciples and two different witnesses; wording differences.

If you were trying to describe the political environment today, the hack writer would paint a one sided picture to promote their favorite side; fake news, and distort the other side. The objective reporter would present both sides, each side in their own words, which will lead to an ambiguous story, that the audience will get to judge. That is how journalism used to be. This mutation has to do with feminism. When I was younger the adult men preferred the newspaper and TV news from trusted national sources; Walter Cronkite. While women preferred the National Enquirer; gossip rag at the super market checkout. Fake news is like the modern gossip rag, with Liberalism feminized ,so even their men are like the women of old.

Too many people who try to knit pick the Bible, are like those who read fictional detective stories where an intricate tangled plot is all connected by the time you finish the story. That is not how reality works, but more like fake news running a clever scam for fun and profit, sanitized to woke and PC nonsense standards; fictional like the Russian Collusion rehearsed Reality TV series.