Those who say the Bible is without contradiction, have obviously never read it!

[YellowFeather]

I do not want to know what satan knows, because satan only wants to take people away from God and his love. good by and keep on beliveing in hate and you will see in the end what will happen. dont cry when it happens.

 

[I Am Hugh]

Do you think the death of king Herod, the intolerable itching everywhere, tumors, intestine pain, gangrene genitals, worms, convulsions while having torturous terrorizing asthma attacks and difficulty breathing, a worse way to die than most serial killer victims face, (and because of how long it lasted , easily worse than wearing a crown of thorns and being nailed to a cross for a day)...

Okay, uh . . . a lot to be unpacked there. Jesus was literally torn to shreds with leather straps with metal spikes in them before being "tried" for a crime he didn't commit, but I don't really think comparing deaths is relevant because what troubled Jesus was that he had to take on the sin of man and be abandoned by his Father in heaven.

...do you think his death with such afflictions was a sign of a curse or the wrath of God? Is this the same Herod who built some of the Temple and had the title "King of the Jews " before Jesus did?

The benefit of the rain that falls from the heavens is enjoyed by the righteous as well as the unrighteous. As are the pains of death.

Do you feel God would eventually end his torment , or make it continue in the next life?

Jesus or Herod? There is no torment in the next life. If such a life is granted.

Could it be that his suffering was atoning for his sins, in union with the passion of Christ, to make him purged and fit for heaven (or place of purgation that isn't hell, the place Jesus says there will be " wailing and gnashing of teeth ...where the worm does not die").

There is no hell except the grave. You are talking about Gehenna, not hades. The soul that sins will die, death is the wage of sin, so we are acquitted of sin upon death. We judge ourselves. If we reject the resurrection, what need would we have of the afterlife? (Ezekiel 18:4; Matthew 10:28; Romans 6:7)

What made you interested in the history of the early Roman Empire, and are you a reliable source?

I have very little interest in it. I think what you read regarding Herod came from an article I wrote in response to an atheist history buff from the UK 20 years or so ago. From my own site, here. Mobile version here.

My source? Define reliability. If you mean agreeable? For the most part I only use two sources but I don't think you would find them agreeable. Here and here.

 

[Subduction Zone]

God is not a liar, You need to give me a verse from the Bible that gives you that feeling. I will answer you.

There never was a worldwide flood. That was refuted long before we knew that man was the product of evolution. All of the scientific evidence shows that story to be fictional. Now could an all powerful God have done it anyway? Yes, but then that would mean that God was a liar since it would have taken an all powerful God to have planted false evidence against the story. Planting false evidence is a form of lying.

 

[Subduction Zone]

God is not a liar, You need to give me a verse from the Bible that gives you that feeling. I will answer you.

There never was a worldwide flood. That was refuted long before we knew that man was the product of evolution. All of the scientific evidence shows that story to be fictional. Now could an all powerful God have done it anyway? Yes, but then that would mean that God was a liar since it would have taken an all powerful God to have planted false evidence against the story. Planting false evidence is a form of lying.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Okay, uh . . . a lot to be unpacked there. Jesus was literally torn to shreds with leather straps with metal spikes in them before being "tried" for a crime he didn't commit, but I don't really think comparing deaths is relevant because what troubled Jesus was that he had to take on the sin of man and be abandoned by his Father in heaven.

Where did you get that from? The myths only say that he was whipped. If your story was true there would not have been a trial. Let's not exaggerate.

The benefit of the rain that falls from the heavens is enjoyed by the righteous as well as the unrighteous. As are the pains of death.



Jesus or Herod? There is no torment in the next life. If such a life is granted.

So God is just evil in this life? And the Bible does tell us that Hell will be endless torment as well.

There is no hell except the grave. You are talking about Gehenna, not hades. The soul that sins will die, death is the wage of sin, so we are acquitted of sin upon death. We judge ourselves. If we reject the resurrection, what need would we have of the afterlife? (Ezekiel 18:4; Matthew 10:28; Romans 6:7)

Nope, sorry it does not work that way. You are now cherry picking as well.

I have very little interest in it. I think what you read regarding Herod came from an article I wrote in response to an atheist history buff from the UK 20 years or so ago. From my own site, here. Mobile version here.

My source? Define reliability. If you mean agreeable? For the most part I only use two sources but I don't think you would find them agreeable. Here and here.

History based sites are reliable. Sites by those that cherry pick the Bible? Not so much

 

[YellowFeather]

Until Judgement day comes when we die our body will die but our soul will rest till the day of Judgement, then Jesus will awaken the died and those who are still alive will all face judgement day. The total righteous will go to heaven first, then those who have repented and changed their life to obey God will live on the new earth. Those who chose not to believe in God, obey God and do as he says will face the second death. that will kill the soul forever.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I do not want to know what satan knows, because satan only wants to take people away from God and his love. good by and keep on beliveing in hate and you will see in the end what will happen. dont cry when it happens.

Showing that parts of the Bible are wrong has nothing to do with hate or "satan". It is just reality. I am sure that you would not want to claim that God is a liar or break the Ninth Commandment. If you discuss the sciences without any understanding of them it is almost impossible not to break the Ninth Commandment.

 

[Father Heathen]

Here's a useful resource: Skeptic's Annotated Bible / Quran / Book of Mormon

 

[I Am Hugh]

Where did you get that from? The myths only say that he was whipped. If your story was true there would not have been a trial. Let's not exaggerate.

Let's see. What did I say? He was torn to shreds, i.e. scourged, not just whipped. (Matthew 20:19; John 19:1) Latin flagrum; diminutive: flagellum, rope or leather strap rope with metal balls, bones, and metal spikes. See this for the trial I referred to. Jesus being abandoned, or forsaken by God due to taking upon himself the sin of man is detailed here.

So God is just evil in this life?

That would be subjective.

And the Bible does tell us that Hell will be endless torment as well.

Everlasting destruction. Hell, the common grave, abode of the dead, (sheol/hades) is thrown into the lake of fire which symbolized everlasting destruction. Not to be confused with tartarus or Gehenna. See my article on hell, the Pagan Christian myth here. Or, if you like, I can post it here.

Nope, sorry it does not work that way. You are now cherry picking as well.

Sorry, in what way does it work?

History based sites are reliable. Sites by those that cherry pick the Bible? Not so much

About the same, I would guess. Not reliable, but at least when cherry picking there is some reference to the source.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Let's see. What did I say? He was torn to shreds, i.e. scourged, not just whipped. (Matthew 20:19; John 19:1) Latin flagrum; diminutive: flagellum, rope or leather strap rope with metal balls, bones, and metal spikes. See this for the trial I referred to. Jesus being abandoned, or forsaken by God due to taking upon himself the sin of man is detailed here.

That is not being "torn to shreds". You exaggerated. That is not a good idea.

That would be subjective.

Ooh cool. Evil is subjective.

Everlasting destruction. Hell, the common grave, abode of the dead, (sheol/hades) is thrown into the lake of fire which symbolized everlasting destruction. Not to be confused with tartarus or Gehenna. See my article on hell, the Pagan Christian myth here. Or, if you like, I can post it here.

That is your interpretation. It is not the interpretation. It is not the interpretation of all Christians. Here are just ten excerpts that imply or even tell us that hell is forever Matthew 25 46 is a very strong one:

Ten Foundational Verses for Eternal Punishment in Hell

In his contribution to the book in Two Views of Hell, Robert Peterson sets forth ten passages that as part of the “overwhelming evidence” to support the historical interpretation of hell as everlasting punishment. I agree with Peterson’s citation of Augustine, “who cautions us against following...

www.thegospelcoalition.org

Sorry, in what way does it work?

One has to acknowledge that one can make an argument either way depending upon what verses one chooses. The Bible is not clear upon whether hell is eternal or not. It is on both sides of that topic. I am not denying that your verses do not exist. I am merely claiming, and have shown, that there are verses that contradict that.

By the way, if someone stated authoritatively that hell is forever I would point out that there are verses, like the ones that you used that go against that. This is one of the problems with the Bible. By picking and choosing verses one can get it to say almost anything.

About the same, I would guess. Not reliable, but at least when cherry picking there is some reference to the source.

Alright let's try to narrow this down to a clear contradiction in the Bible.

 

[1213]

Alright, we know when Herod died.

Sorry, I don't believe that.

 

[1213]

Forever trying to explain the bad stuff away, eh? If life isn't value, a thing worth having, then why is murder considered wrong by God? I mean, aren't you just sending somebody to eternal bliss sooner, before they have to suffer all that life stuff?

Firstly, people don't know who gets into eternal life, so they are not good to decide who should die. Secondly, why would this life be without value, if it lasts only a short moment?

And lastly, people don't have right to murder. If you don't have right to do it, it is wrong to do it.

 

[I Am Hugh]

That is not being "torn to shreds". You exaggerated. That is not a good idea.

"Torn to shreds" is an idiom that means to criticize someone or something in a harsh or angry way or to damage something badly.

That is your interpretation. It is not the interpretation. It is not the interpretation of all Christians.

Correct.

Here are just ten excerpts that imply or even tell us that hell is forever Matthew 25 46 is a very strong one:

Ten Foundational Verses for Eternal Punishment in Hell

In his contribution to the book in Two Views of Hell, Robert Peterson sets forth ten passages that as part of the “overwhelming evidence” to support the historical interpretation of hell as everlasting punishment. I agree with Peterson’s citation of Augustine, “who cautions us against following...

www.thegospelcoalition.org

I'm not going to bother to read your link because I've recently heard that: "History based sites are reliable. Sites by those that cherry pick the Bible? Not so much."

But since your criticism of cherry picking seems to me somewhat hypocritical, I will respond to Matthew 25:46 The Bible teaches that the wicked suffer everlasting destruction, not a literal eternal torment. To put that into perspective imagine a friend doing something stupid that will most likely get them killed and you tell them: "You'll be sorry." They won't be sorry because they will be dead. It's another idiom. One of the things that has always fascinated by about Bible skeptics is that they take everything literally. They seem to have an almost idiotic difficulty with the idiomatic.

One has to acknowledge that one can make an argument either way depending upon what verses one chooses.

Correct.

The Bible is not clear upon whether hell is eternal or not. It is on both sides of that topic. I am not denying that your verses do not exist. I am merely claiming, and have shown, that there are verses that contradict that.

Incorrect.

By the way, if someone stated authoritatively that hell is forever I would point out that there are verses, like the ones that you used that go against that. This is one of the problems with the Bible. By picking and choosing verses one can get it to say almost anything.

No, that isn't a problem with the Bible, it's a problem with uninformed skeptics. I offered you a link to my own article on my own forum which explains it all. I mean, I could start another thread if you like, but you wouldn't. Actually, I may do that anyway. Feel free to ignore it. It's kind of singing to the choir on a forum such as this because most traditional Christian theology isn't fairly represented. Most people here probably know hell is a pagan teaching, more from Dante and Milton than the Bible. There is Buddhism, Hinduism, and - get this - Google says Taoism! I've not seen that before, but it just goes to show the syncretistic nature of organized religion. You may think religion is dogmatic but as with science, it will sell out to the highest bidder with the slightest of ease.

Alright let's try to narrow this down to a clear contradiction in the Bible.

Then you would be interested in a thread on hell!?

But why?

 

[Muffled]

I have read it several times and found no contradictions.

 

[Muffled]

When was Jesus born? Roughly what year? If you have read and understood the Bible you should know.

He was born 1 AD.

 

[Muffled]

I believe it was roughly 2024 years ago.

That is what I said but the fact is the Bible does not give a date. Someone else set that date.

 

[Subduction Zone]

He was born 1 AD.

How did you get that number? Did you average the two different accounts? Luke says 6 CE Matthew says 4 BCE. 1 CE is exactly in the middle.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That is what I said but the fact is the Bible does not give a date. Someone else set that date.

Actually it does. Matthew makes it clear that Herod was still alive when Jesus was born. That means he claimed 4 BCE or earlier.

Luke says that it was during the Census of Quirinius. That was in 6 CE. Don't you even read your Bible?

 

[1213]

That is what I said but the fact is the Bible does not give a date. Someone else set that date.

That is true. It would be nice, if the writers would have given the year in Jewish calendar.