Thoughts On A Ministries Response

[Cateau]

So here is my response first, then their answer because actually they didn't even answer my question lol; isn't it kinda contradictory what is said in the first paragraph and the second? Like huh? Anyone care to expand on it, agree or disagree?


Me: "Sorry but your answer had nothing to do with the article I forwarded and it's message, I'm not asking if anyone else can be saved I said I would like nothing more than to believe that but I know differently. What I am asking is in accordance to the article and in agreement with it, why would this ministry not like to practice using the true names of the Holy Triune. And yes, thanks I know hell is not forever, I sent you guys the article to stop preaching it was forever."

Warm Christian regards,
Dr. Stan Hatkoff, PhD
Amazing Facts Team
www.amazingfacts.org

"Now Jesus has told us in His word that there is no excuse for anyone not knowing the Creator...here is the scripture: Romans 1:20 (NKJV) 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

We do believe that those who have not known Jesus as their Lord and Savior CAN be saved in this manner: If they understand that there is a higher moral power as described above, a creator; and then they live up to the morals of their belief in whatever God they have chosen to believe...BUT have never heard of Jesus and His salvation. They may be saved. The bible says this about that: Romans 2:14-16 (NKJV)
14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,
15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)
16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

We do not believe in eternal hell. Hell is an event that happens only once at the end of time where the wicked are burned up and gone forever. See www.helltruth.com."

 

[PureX]

Right-fighters never win, and yet their fight never ends. Sort of like an addiction, I think.

 

[Cateau]

Right-fighters never win, and yet their fight never ends. Sort of like an addiction, I think.

And might you clear up whose the right fighter? Why would it be as an addiction? Side note, what or who is a left fighter?

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Seems to me they reference "The Creator" in the first paragraph, which they distinguish as separate from Jesus in the second. It reads to me like:

"If you don't know of Jesus, specifically, you can still avoid being punished by recognizing a power greater than yourself (i.e. "God") and living according to God's law - even if that is only by accident, or according to whatever other canon of 'law' you follow."

What got me is the "invisible attributes are clearly seen" line. That's a neat trick.

 

[Cateau]

Seems to me they reference "The Creator" in the first paragraph, which they distinguish as separate from Jesus in the second. It reads to me like:

"If you don't know of Jesus, specifically, you can still avoid being punished by recognizing a power greater than yourself (i.e. "God") and living according to God's law - even if that is only by accident, or according to whatever other canon of 'law' you follow."

What got me is the "invisible attributes are clearly seen" line. That's a neat trick.

Yeah, I told him that's not what I even make of it but it's also not what I was asking him lol. I think the ministry is really good at overlooking and looking too much into passages....which is totally understandable but I'm like dudes srsly pray to the HS cuz you lead millions of ppl and like I was a teenager when I corrected them from preaching hell is forever and they had years on a broadcasting network as pastors and nvr had it dawned on them. I wonder if he will reply or actually answer me. The last time I sent them a message the person was quite mean, I got extremely angry that they were all ...just bye...they did end up changing their views but I probably have to pray for them not to dismiss me again lol.

 

[Kirran]

***MOD NOTICE***

Thread moved to Scriptural Debates

As you were ​

 

[2ndpillar]

"Now Jesus has told us in His word that there is no excuse for anyone not knowing the Creator...here is the scripture: Romans 1:20 (NKJV) 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

Actually, the false prophet Paul wrote Romans 1:20, not Yeshua.

 

[TheBannerofHomuraAkemi]

So here is my response first, then their answer because actually they didn't even answer my question lol; isn't it kinda contradictory what is said in the first paragraph and the second? Like huh? Anyone care to expand on it, agree or disagree?


Me: "Sorry but your answer had nothing to do with the article I forwarded and it's message, I'm not asking if anyone else can be saved I said I would like nothing more than to believe that but I know differently. What I am asking is in accordance to the article and in agreement with it, why would this ministry not like to practice using the true names of the Holy Triune. And yes, thanks I know hell is not forever, I sent you guys the article to stop preaching it was forever."

Warm Christian regards,
Dr. Stan Hatkoff, PhD
Amazing Facts Team
www.amazingfacts.org

"Now Jesus has told us in His word that there is no excuse for anyone not knowing the Creator...here is the scripture: Romans 1:20 (NKJV) 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

We do believe that those who have not known Jesus as their Lord and Savior CAN be saved in this manner: If they understand that there is a higher moral power as described above, a creator; and then they live up to the morals of their belief in whatever God they have chosen to believe...BUT have never heard of Jesus and His salvation. They may be saved. The bible says this about that: Romans 2:14-16 (NKJV)
14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,
15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)
16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

We do not believe in eternal hell. Hell is an event that happens only once at the end of time where the wicked are burned up and gone forever. See www.helltruth.com."

Maybe thats were the concept of "I'm a good person so I'll go to heaven." Came from.

 

[Cateau]

Actually, the false prophet Paul wrote Romans 1:20, not Yeshua.

Yes I know, that was just the response I received and again I got answered, probably for the last time lol. Don't you mean Yahushua? Maybe I'm being too politically correct but I feel we get spiritual convictions for a reason, we ought not be lukewarm. Why do you call Paul false?

I of course don't blame them or anyone for shooting (or praising) the messenger but I think at this point in time we are just parroting, there really is nothing new under the sun. It's just that the authors of the scriptures got their ideas hijacked/misinterpreted and to correct it can only be done by using some pre-existing correlation between your conviction and someone else's thesis/Biblical statements and use it to correct or to further expand upon an issue.

AF Bible Questions <[email protected] wrote:

I am sorry also, but we DO NOT OPEN unsolicited links and we could not read the forwarded article. Therefore, we cannot comment on it. However, you mention the name of God.

When Pr. Doug has been asked about God's name, he's written, "There are five language groups in the world. Of course, under these language roots there are dialects. Each language group and dialect have their own distinct version of the name of God. God changed the languages at the Tower of Babel and knows how to understand when His name is spoken. We should address God in the language of our culture.

"The Hebrews felt that the name of God was too holy to even pronounce. We know that the personal name of the God worshiped by the Israelites and their progenitors is represented by four Hebrew letters transliterated Yhwh. This term appears some 6,800 times in the Hebrew OT. Instead of transliterating this name, most of the translations substitute the word for lord, or Lord, and the divine name as LORD.

"New Testament writers followed the practice of the Septuagint translators. Nowhere do they use the divine name Yhwh except as it occurs in compound names or terms transliterating the Hebrew. Nowhere, not even once, in their numerous references to the Deity, when they were not quoting, did they use the divine name Yhwh, so if the NT writers felt no urge by the Holy Spirit to revive the use of the divine name, we should feel no compulsion and let it rest at that.

"The most important thing, I believe, is not to worry so much about the name, as to know the Deity Himself, His character, His purposes, His will. The term 'name' as used in Hebrew often means 'nature, reputation, character,' and it is a knowledge of the divine name in this sense that Christians should seek. Jesus summed up the importance of a knowledge of the Deity: 'And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent' (John 17:3; See also Hosea 6:6, Jer. 9:24 and Hab. 2:14)."

Here's a link to Pr. Doug's book on this subject that you may find interesting:
The Name of God | Free Book Library | Amazing Facts

ME: Really....I clicked on it (What is His Name, and What is His Son’s Name, If You Can Tell? – Watchman Reports) and it works just fine, the link opens on gmail so it's more of an attachment thus it does not send you to the direct site. So if it's not for a safety measure why can't you read about an opposing view point? If I recall that's the only way you guys changed your minds about hell, and the HS. I'll look at the book/site & I probably won't like it but that won't stop me from studying to better my stance or argue with myself using your information for a conclusion & I suggest the same for you. Anyway if you really cannot open the link here is an attachment/snapshot of a bit of the article.

 

[Cateau]

Maybe thats were the concept of "I'm a good person so I'll go to heaven." Came from.

Makes sense, it reminds me of the meme with the Eskimo where it says WHY would you tell me about god if not knowing about him left me uncondemned (or something like it) LOL. It is true that the more you know the more accountable you are, only the thrice holy can make a just judgement regarding those who couldn't study his word. It's a troubling issue, but we are all just walking each other home; where we will wake, nobody knows. But I'm too deep in to climb out of the ditch, I'll have to dig my way out to the other side by walking on egg shells for the rest of my life, no more scales to blame the blindness on.

 

[Princewill Emmanuel]

Impressive! Thanks for the post

 

[John1.12]

So here is my response first, then their answer because actually they didn't even answer my question lol; isn't it kinda contradictory what is said in the first paragraph and the second? Like huh? Anyone care to expand on it, agree or disagree?


Me: "Sorry but your answer had nothing to do with the article I forwarded and it's message, I'm not asking if anyone else can be saved I said I would like nothing more than to believe that but I know differently. What I am asking is in accordance to the article and in agreement with it, why would this ministry not like to practice using the true names of the Holy Triune. And yes, thanks I know hell is not forever, I sent you guys the article to stop preaching it was forever."

Warm Christian regards,
Dr. Stan Hatkoff, PhD
Amazing Facts Team
www.amazingfacts.org

"Now Jesus has told us in His word that there is no excuse for anyone not knowing the Creator...here is the scripture: Romans 1:20 (NKJV) 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

We do believe that those who have not known Jesus as their Lord and Savior CAN be saved in this manner: If they understand that there is a higher moral power as described above, a creator; and then they live up to the morals of their belief in whatever God they have chosen to believe...BUT have never heard of Jesus and His salvation. They may be saved. The bible says this about that: Romans 2:14-16 (NKJV)
14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,
15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)
16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

We do not believe in eternal hell. Hell is an event that happens only once at the end of time where the wicked are burned up and gone forever. See www.helltruth.com."

Romans 2:14-16 (NKJV)
14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,
15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)
16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

This verse is not saying that if they follow the law they will be saved. Its simply pointing out what it says .
No one saved or otherwise is Justified by the deeds of the law .
Romans 3:20

“Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”

People who do not recieve Jesus cannot be saved. ONLY people believe on Jesus can be saved.