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Thoughts on Sri Ramakrishna?

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Atheist, so God part is not for me (deity part is). The Mission is doing excellent work and am all for that. I am not all-embracing, I embrace Hinduism and Indic religions only. It is because I have not developed to his heights. As a person Sri Ramakrishna is a bit too sissy for me. :)
 

Sw. Vandana Jyothi

Truth is One, many are the Names
Premium Member
I dislike the word avatara. Seems to be used too often and is too sectarian. I vote we go back to the old and faithful word "Rishi" (the transcendent seers) for such folks.

Yeah, Sayakji & Starryji, I guess that's one approach we could take to millenias-old but recently hijacked words such as "avatar" and "guru." Another would be to gently explain the true meaning of them each and every time the opportunity arises. Although change is inevitable in a world of constant change, some revered sounds and holy concepts need to be protected from such vandalism and are worth speaking up about.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
He seems like a good and enlightening teacher, for both new converts and advanced mystics.

And if an individual has a challenge of an individual nature, or a mystical question about something, which phone number does he call to reach this teacher for advice?
 

Sw. Vandana Jyothi

Truth is One, many are the Names
Premium Member
And if an individual has a challenge of an individual nature, or a mystical question about something, which phone number does he call to reach this teacher for advice?

In a serene place, one sits for meditation, quiets his mind while perhaps gazing at a picture or murti of the teacher and begins by dialing the area code (AUM) followed by IAM-THAT.... Country code not required. There is no telephone booth equal to one's humble heart and a teacher of Sri Ramakrishna's consciousness will have zero problem hearing the call and providing suitable, truthful and satisfying answers.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
In a serene place, one sits for meditation, quiets his mind while perhaps gazing at a picture or murti of the teacher and begins by dialing the area code (AUM) followed by IAM-THAT.... Country code not required. There is no telephone booth equal to one's humble heart and a teacher of Sri Ramakrishna's consciousness will have zero problem hearing the call and providing suitable, truthful and satisfying answers.

Perhaps. That would certainly work for a really deep mystical person. But few beginners have the depth of understanding or experience to go there. But with a living Guru (which was my point) there is no chance of it being a delusion, or projecting of what the person wishes the Guru to say. It's different (like you, or partially me, for example) when you were incredibly familiar with a particular teacher personally, while they had a physical body. Then you just follow the pattern of what they would have said in a very similar situation.

I don't think a deceased Guru can tell you to do something you don't want to do. Living Gurus do that, as part of a sishya's training. Many, because they aren't ready, just move on to a different Guru ... one who is less demanding.
 

Sw. Vandana Jyothi

Truth is One, many are the Names
Premium Member
Perhaps. That would certainly work for a really deep mystical person. But few beginners have the depth of understanding or experience to go there. But with a living Guru (which was my point) there is no chance of it being a delusion, or projecting of what the person wishes the Guru to say. It's different (like you, or partially me, for example) when you were incredibly familiar with a particular teacher personally, while they had a physical body. Then you just follow the pattern of what they would have said in a very similar situation.

I don't think a deceased Guru can tell you to do something you don't want to do. Living Gurus do that, as part of a sishya's training. Many, because they aren't ready, just move on to a different Guru ... one who is less demanding.

Yes, Vinayakaji, I almost and should have edited my reply. I do believe that a dedicated heart longing for truth can definitely break through the obstacle of not having met a/the teacher in person because God is listening and watching 100% of the time. My edit would have said that at some point a living guru who gives proper diksha is essential to success and advancement on the path. Essential. What my edit would have said, too, is that a Sri Ramakrishna, hearing the plea of that soul could and would lead the sincere sadhak to his living guru.

Re your statement, "I don't think a deceased Guru can tell you to do something you don't want to do...." Wanna bet?! :p
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Certainly there is a lot to be learned from the writings of Gurus, and the biographies. But it's not the same as a dialogue with a living Satguru. Yes, I know as well, about the 'telling' you referred to. Generally there is a deeper connection, but not always either. But I'm more referring to beginners on the path misinterpreting what they figured the Guru may have said, for adharmic, or selfish motives. It's a strict and disciplined walk we embark on. Of course sampradayas vary as well.
 

Sw. Vandana Jyothi

Truth is One, many are the Names
Premium Member
Certainly there is a lot to be learned from the writings of Gurus, and the biographies. But it's not the same as a dialogue with a living Satguru. Yes, I know as well, about the 'telling' you referred to. Generally there is a deeper connection, but not always either. But I'm more referring to beginners on the path misinterpreting what they figured the Guru may have said, for adharmic, or selfish motives. It's a strict and disciplined walk we embark on. Of course sampradayas vary as well.

Aye, without doubt a "strict and disciplined walk." One has to be willing to bloody his feet on this razor's edge. Many times, that is what's missing in the beginner and does result in "guru-hunting" and/or looking for an easier way. In my sanga, I was astonished, dumbfounded even, at the numbers of devotees who vanished after Guruji's mahasamadhi. But he used to say, "Certain teachers are meant for certain disciples and they will come together after a while."

Not to belabor the point but perhaps to state it a different way for any beginners listening (something you of course know already), Guru is not a person. It is a state of consciousness, a principle manifesting in the person. Sri Ramakrishna enjoyed (?) that state of consciousness and could initiate Naren with one touch to his thigh, whereupon a tornado of Light blew his false ego identity clear out of the water, so to speak, and turned him into a Vivekananda.

God the Guru resides within the hrit padma along with the "individualized" soul and it is for this reason we are advised to "turn off or disconnect in meditation the outgoing sense telephones connected to the world and go within" in order to connect with It, That Consciousness. Thus, the advisories to purify one's body, quiet one's mind, etc.... It's all for the purpose of being able to awaken and raise shakti kundalini to tap into consciousness at a higher level, say ajna chakra (6th, yeah aim high, why not?!) rather than food, sex and power (1st, 2nd & 3rd).
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
I've actually met people who liked Ramakrishna, and claimed Him as their Guru because he smoked. So that's how dumb it can get.

As for losing devotees at Mahasamadhi, we also lost a few too. I wasn't surprised. Quite natural, I suppose.
 
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Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
I've actually met people who liked Ramakrishna, and claimed Him as their Guru because he smoked. So that's how dumb it can get.
Oh, did he? I did not know that. Marijuana or cigarettes (if you know)? I know that does not make a difference to an enlightened person.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
But of course you would appreciate it. I don't know if he did smoke or not. All I know is that somebody I know claimed he did (could have been Vivekenanda, not Ramakrishna, my memory is bad) justified his own smoking from it. People with little willpower will use all kinds of excuses to justify their own poor behaviour. They'll find some random quote from scripture, make broad claims that God told them to do it, or use the depths of advaita (It's all God's plan) to excuse it. Meanwhile the anava continues and the karmic bank continues to accumulate.

The only shortcut is hard work.
 

Bhadr

Active Member
As for losing devotees at Mahasamadhi, we also lost a few too. I wasn't surprised. Quite natural, I suppose.
Strange!
Sri Subramuniyaswami has a successor,so the lineage is still there.He appointed the successor by himself so why would any student think of leaving the tradition?
Its not at all natural.When a new Shankaracharya ascends the Shankara Pitha we don't hear about smartas walking out,they don't lose even 1 follower,so is the case with any tradition.Parampara is always more than an individual,its about the teaching.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
And if an individual has a challenge of an individual nature, or a mystical question about something, which phone number does he call to reach this teacher for advice?
There are many monks in that order whom one can go to if one needs a living teacher, of course. Depending on where you are. Here is one in New York

http://www.ramakrishna.org/

The main center is Belur Math
http://www.belurmath.org/

Here is the current spiritual leader
http://www.belurmath.org/Presidentmaharaj.htm
 

Sw. Vandana Jyothi

Truth is One, many are the Names
Premium Member
Strange!
Sri Subramuniyaswami has a successor,so the lineage is still there.He appointed the successor by himself so why would any student think of leaving the tradition?
Its not at all natural.When a new Shankaracharya ascends the Shankara Pitha we don't hear about smartas walking out,they don't lose even 1 follower,so is the case with any tradition.Parampara is always more than an individual,its about the teaching.

Bhadrji, before "someone else" points it out, we're probably talking about Westerners here. There are many who merely dip their toes into the water out of curiosity or neediness and then there are those who "get naked" and dive in with their whole body, mind and soul into the ocean depths that is Hinduism. Which isn't to say I haven't seen and been around a slew of Indian Hindus who came here to the U.S. and who now act just like any ordinary, pompous, irreligious Westerner. It most certainly is not just the place of birth which makes a Hindu. On pilgrimage in India, many times I know we had to grease the palms of the priests. Not dakshina, bribery. So it seems to take all kinds to put on a really Good Show (the lila).
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Bhadrji, before "someone else" points it out, we're probably talking about Westerners here. There are many who merely dip their toes into the water out of curiosity or neediness and then there are those who "get naked" and dive in with their whole body, mind and soul into the ocean depths that is Hinduism. Which isn't to say I haven't seen and been around a slew of Indian Hindus who came here to the U.S. and who now act just like any ordinary, pompous, irreligious Westerner. It most certainly is not just the place of birth which makes a Hindu. On pilgrimage in India, many times I know we had to grease the palms of the priests. Not dakshina, bribery. So it seems to take all kinds to put on a really Good Show (the lila).

Indeed, westerners, but I should also clarify that it was very few. I was not surprised because I've been around. This is a strict sampradaya, and people come and go, not just for this reason, but for several others as well. It's human nature.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
There are many monks in that order whom one can go to if one needs a living teacher, of course. Depending on where you are. Here is one in New York

http://www.ramakrishna.org/

The main center is Belur Math
http://www.belurmath.org/

Here is the current spiritual leader
http://www.belurmath.org/Presidentmaharaj.htm

Not sure how the organisation works. The info in the last link said the current president was elected ... similar to the way the Catholics select a new pope, I suppose. In my sampradaya, and in many, it is a successorship, appointed by each previous successor.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Not sure how the organisation works. The info in the last link said the current president was elected ... similar to the way the Catholics select a new pope, I suppose. In my sampradaya, and in many, it is a successorship, appointed by each previous successor.
Umm..so what?
 
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