Thoughts on the Fall of Adam

[nPeace]

That's the definition I'm most familiar with coming from Christians.

Well as the other guy, Subduction Zone said, this verse does Him, as omniscient Psalm 147:5 Great is our Lord and mighty in power; His understanding has no limit.

Right, perfect means complete or not lacking so He have total knowledge if He were omniscient.

I fail to see how perfect knowledge can mean knowledge that someone does not have, or something that is not known.
How can knowledge be complete if it is not knowledge?
What you seem to be saying is that even what is not known, or does not exist in the mind of anyone, is knowledge. How can that be?

Do you see wisdom, knowledge, and understanding, as the same thing? Please explain.

Does being omnipotent mean He can do absolutely anything He wants to?

How could it Jos?
Does the fact that you have a voice mean that you can sing like Michael Jackson?
Does the fact that someone has ultimate power, mean that they can be 'a lamb', or lamb-like?

 

[Jos]

I fail to see how perfect knowledge can mean knowledge that someone does not have, or something that is not known.
How can knowledge be complete if it is not knowledge?
What you seem to be saying is that even what is not known, or does not exist in the mind of anyone, is knowledge. How can that be?

That's why I said I think God knows everything that it is possible for a person to know.

Do you see wisdom, knowledge, and understanding, as the same thing? Please explain.

I see knowledge as just having information, I see wisdom as being similar to intelligence so wisdom where one can use or manipulate knowledge in order to solve a problem and I see understanding as the ability to understand and interpret information.

 

[nPeace]

You appear to have a problem with the English language. That was not an appeal.

Agsin, by your standards we can prove evolution beyond a reasonable doubt. All that is required is honesty by the person trying to learn.

My point was that you incorrectly use the word "assumption" . So badly that it is a breaking of the Ninth Commandment.

You have just repeated statements - not facts. They call such statements, assertions, or claims, or opinions.

Are there probability in the theory of evolution? Yes or No.
Then the theory of evolution has not been proven beyond reasonable doubt.

Go ahead, repeat your assertions six million times, perhaps it will be true. An honest person willing to learn does not believe this.

 

[Jos]

How could it Jos?
Does the fact that you have a voice mean that you can sing like Michael Jackson?
Does the fact that someone has ultimate power, mean that they can be 'a lamb', or lamb-like?

Well I thought He was infinite in power but I guess not...

 

[nPeace]

That's why I said I think God knows everything that it is possible for a person to know.

I see knowledge as just having information, I see wisdom as being similar to intelligence so wisdom where one can use or manipulate knowledge in order to solve a problem and I see understanding as the ability to understand and interpret information.

Thank you. Shake my hand. I agree with what you say here.
That's not what I understood you to be saying earlier.
Knowledge, Wisdom, Understanding, and Insight: What are the Differences? – Inspiring Tips

Well I thought He was infinite in power but I guess not...

So that I understand what you are saying, please explain "infinite in power". Do you mean ultimate power? God indeed has ultimate power. How is that a problem?

 

[Jos]

Thank you. Shake my hand. I agree with what you say here.
That's not what I understood you to be saying earlier.

Lol, I'm glad I'm better understood now

So that I understand what you are saying, please explain "infinite in power". Do you mean ultimate power? God indeed has ultimate power. How is that a problem?

What's the difference between infinite and ultimate power? Because it sounds like ultimate power comes with limitations...

 

[nPeace]

Lol, I'm glad I'm better understood now

Me too.

What's the difference between infinite and ultimate power? Because it sounds like ultimate power comes with limitations...

I understand ultimate to be something for which there is nothing beyond.
Ultimate is the same as limitless, but it does not convey the idea of something going on and on forever.
Rather it conveys the thought of finality - something that is final - nothing beyond or above it.

So to say God's power is ultimate, means there is no higher power.
That does not make it limited.
We can also say God's power is unlimited - that is, his power is not limited by anything.
Infinite power seems to convey the same thought.

To me, they all mean the same thing, except that they have various descriptions. None of which conflict, as long as we understand how they apply.
For example, a person might argue about words, which is quite easy to do,when there really is no problem.
Does infinite clash with ultimate? Not all all.

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes, but it does not matter what one tells someone that does not know right from wrong. They would have both been innocent by any reasonable standard.

Our standards

From your last three posts it appears that you will defend any immoral behavior by your God.

My God does nothing immoral.

 

[YoursTrue]

Lol, I'm glad I'm better understood now

What's the difference between infinite and ultimate power? Because it sounds like ultimate power comes with limitations...

if God wants to refrain from certain things, ultimate truly absolute power allows Him to.

 

[YoursTrue]

From your last three posts it appears that you will defend any immoral behavior by your God.

You bring up an important point. Because what you are implying is that Adam and Eve did not have an innate conscience, so as to understand they were disobeying God's command. It seems you believe they did not understand they were disobedient.

 

[YoursTrue]

From your last three posts it appears that you will defend any immoral behavior by your God.

So when a parent tells a child not to -- let's say -- take a piece of cake from the refrigerator, are you saying he doesn't know his mother doesn't want him to take that piece of cake and that the child thinks it's ok to take the piece of cake?

 

[Jos]

I understand ultimate to be something for which there is nothing beyond.
Ultimate is the same as limitless, but it does not convey the idea of something going on and on forever.
Rather it conveys the thought of finality - something that is final - nothing beyond or above it.

So to say God's power is ultimate, means there is no higher power.
That does not make it limited.
We can also say God's power is unlimited - that is, his power is not limited by anything.
Infinite power seems to convey the same thought.

To me, they all mean the same thing, except that they have various descriptions. None of which conflict, as long as we understand how they apply.
For example, a person might argue about words, which is quite easy to do,when there really is no problem.
Does infinite clash with ultimate? Not all all

OK I get it so it does mean He can do absolutely anything. Does it mean He can do things that aren't logically possible?

 

[nPeace]

OK I get it so it does mean He can do absolutely anything. Does it mean He can do things that aren't logically possible?

Can God do absolutely anything?
Have a look here, if you don't mind.

Can God do things that aren't logically possible?
Logically possible to whom? Humans? No question - absolutely 1 to the infinite power.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You have just repeated statements - not facts. They call such statements, assertions, or claims, or opinions.

No, observations are facts. Why are you afraid to learn what is and what is not evidence? Your fear shows that I am correct.

Are there probability in the theory of evolution? Yes or No.
Then the theory of evolution has not been proven beyond reasonable doubt.

No, there is no "probability theory" in evolution. And even if there was it would still be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. You are now spouting nonsense.

Go ahead, repeat your assertions six million times, perhaps it will be true. An honest person willing to learn does not believe this.

You are wrong once again. An honest person would see that I am correct. Instead of making excuses and running away why not try to learn a little?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Our standards

My God does nothing immoral.

I see, then you do not believe the Bible since the God of the Old Testament is immoral without a doubt.

The problem with interpreting the Bible literally is that one either has to believe in an immoral monster or soon have to admit that that God does not exist.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You bring up an important point. Because what you are implying is that Adam and Eve did not have an innate conscience, so as to understand they were disobeying God's command. It seems you believe they did not understand they were disobedient.

That is what the myth implies.

 

[Subduction Zone]

So when a parent tells a child not to -- let's say -- take a piece of cake from the refrigerator, are you saying he doesn't know his mother doesn't want him to take that piece of cake and that the child thinks it's ok to take the piece of cake?

Bad analogy. According to the myth the knowledge of Good and Evil is passed down due to the actions of Adam and Eve. A child can know that something is wrong.

A better one would be a where a mother told her kid something that he could not understand and then he did it anyway, resulting in harm to that child. The parent would be in the wrong Worse yet in this case the parent would have to have set something up that he could have easily avoided and did not. For example if the parent put a riding lawn mower in the middle of the house and a child could not understand the dangers of it. If that child started it and injured himself as a result the parent would be to blame, not the child. And if that parent punished that child for that paren't incompetence we would seem him as an evil monster. Sound familiar?

 

[nPeace]

No, observations are facts. Why are you afraid to learn what is and what is not evidence? Your fear shows that I am correct.



No, there is no "probability theory" in evolution. And even if there was it would still be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. You are now spouting nonsense.



You are wrong once again. An honest person would see that I am correct. Instead of making excuses and running away why not try to learn a little?

probability theory?
Who said that? You or I?
It was certainly not I. Keep wishing. Do you have your toes crossed as well? Try going, "Om..................... Om..................... Om" Repeat every 5 seconds.

 

[YoursTrue]

I don't find it any different, since ideas of men are often presented as scientific truth, and there ensue in heated debates in the scientific community.
In fact, to this day, many so-called scientific truths are still being hotly debated, and many already contend that that will not end, since Scientific Proof Is A Myth.

It's interesting that sometimes controlled experiments with pharmaceutical drugs show that some people get better, while some die, seemingly as a result of taking the drug. Science surely is not perfect in application or assumption.

 

[YoursTrue]

Bad analogy. According to the myth the knowledge of Good and Evil is passed down due to the actions of Adam and Eve. A child can know that something is wrong.

A better one would be a where a mother told her kid something that he could not understand and then he did it anyway, resulting in harm to that child. The parent would be in the wrong Worse yet in this case the parent would have to have set something up that he could have easily avoided and did not. For example if the parent put a riding lawn mower in the middle of the house and a child could not understand the dangers of it. If that child started it and injured himself as a result the parent would be to blame, not the child. And if that parent punished that child for that paren't incompetence we would seem him as an evil monster. Sound familiar?

Adam and Eve were not incompetent or incapable of staying away from eating of that tree.