Thoughts on the Fall of Adam

[YoursTrue]

Yes, but that is a separate problem from evolution. It is why moving the goalposts to abiogenesis is admitting defeat by the creationists. It does not matter where or how life arose. We know that it evolved once that it was here.

That's something I don't understand -- why you say it's a separate problem (? problem??) from evolution. Oh, I'm tempted to smile here.

 

[YoursTrue]

I did say that at one time I denied it, but the same post made it clear that was not the case now. You accused me of not.accepting it in the present.

Sorry, I apologize. Now I would like to ask a follow-up question to that, and any time you get tired of talking to me, just say so. How do you feel about the future of the earth? Mankind?

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes, but that is a separate problem from evolution. It is why moving the goalposts to abiogenesis is admitting defeat by the creationists. It does not matter where or how life arose. We know that it evolved once that it was here.

I know you don't believe this, but in comparison to the idea that life arose from -- non-life?? Genesis 1:1,2 says the following: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and desolate", (Yes, the earth it says was formless and desolate. Amazing the Bible writer knew that. Who knows? Maybe like the moon in a way. Dark and dreary looking. And news has it that NASA claims there is water on the moon...NASA Confirms The Existence Of Water On The Moon)

 

[YoursTrue]

Let's try to keep it in context. When I said that the details do not matter that was in reference to your creationist beliefs. You gave more than enough details for people to know that you are wrong.

If you want to ask questions about evolution I will try to answer them. And incorrectly asked questions will be answered after an attempt at correction. Incorrectly asked questions tend to have incorrect assumptions within them. The classic example being "Have you quit beating your wife yet?"

(You're really not making sense here. Try to stick to the subject.)

 

[Subduction Zone]

I am speaking of the theory of evolution. And there are many who believe that evolution and creation are somewhat combined, as if God started the whole thing and then it took off on its own after that, millions of years required for the evolution of a snake or an ape or a plant or a human being. Here is what I believe: There was a beginning. Exactly what that beginning was (is) I can't say now, but I believe-go with this: "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." Genesis 1:1. I know you don't believe that, BUT -- don't you imagine what the "beginning" is? What empirical evidence do you have?
So I will ask you, because you have more knowledge about evolution than I do, what evidence is there of links between, let's say, tigers and humans?

I know that. The problem is that there is no evidence for that viewpoint. And I gave you a list of some of the evidence. But until you understand the concept relisting it would not do any good.

Are you ready to go on with the lesson?

 

[Subduction Zone]

That's something I don't understand -- why you say it's a separate problem (? problem??) from evolution. Oh, I'm tempted to smile here.

Because evolution deals with the development of life after life arose. It says nothing about how life arose. It is a different problem.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Sorry, I apologize. Now I would like to ask a follow-up question to that, and any time you get tired of talking to me, just say so. How do you feel about the future of the earth? Mankind?

I am rather optimistic. What has occurred in the past will continue to occur in the future. You will find that as countries develop they get cleaner and cleaner. Pollution is a problem more of the developing world than the developed. Now that we are aware of this problem we can take steps to counteract our effect.

 

[YoursTrue]

I know that. The problem is that there is no evidence for that viewpoint. And I gave you a list of some of the evidence. But until you understand the concept relisting it would not do any good.

Are you ready to go on with the lesson?

Not until you say that there is evidence that the earth was very, V-E-R-Y likely similar to the moon in many respects of being without vegetation, seas, and animals "in the beginning."

 

[Subduction Zone]

I know you don't believe this, but in comparison to the idea that life arose from -- non-life?? Genesis 1:1,2 says the following: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and desolate", (Yes, the earth it says was formless and desolate. Amazing the Bible writer knew that. Who knows? Maybe like the moon in a way. Dark and dreary looking. And news has it that NASA claims there is water on the moon...NASA Confirms The Existence Of Water On The Moon)

It is a fairly natural assumption of any creation tale that there was no life before it was created. That is hardly surprising. By that standard almost any religion is "true".

And the water on the Moon is insignificant for any life there. It only exists as a remnant from its past and was predicted quite some time ago. That what was predicted was found is not very surprising either.

 

[Subduction Zone]

(You're really not making sense here. Try to stick to the subject.)

Wrong again. You dug up an old post and did not look at the context of it, which would have included going to the post that it quoted. If you do not understand then say so. Do not claim that someone else is "not making sense".

 

[YoursTrue]

I am rather optimistic. What has occurred in the past will continue to occur in the future. You will find that as countries develop they get cleaner and cleaner. Pollution is a problem more of the developing world than the developed. Now that we are aware of this problem we can take steps to counteract our effect.

You're optimistic. You talk about pollution -- the seas are flooded with junk from plastic and other stuff. Yet you are optimistic about mankind improving things...while people are killing one another, bombing each other out, lying, stealing, hurting the underdog, etc. So you're optimistic as the ocean levels will undoubtedly keep rising, coastal town and cities flooded out.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Not until you say that there is evidence that the earth was very, V-E-R-Y likely similar to the moon in many respects of being without vegetation, seas, and animals "in the beginning."

Of course the Moon had no life "in the beginning" why would you expect anything else? Do you know how the Moon formed? Hint: Magic is almost certainly not the answer.

 

[YoursTrue]

It is a fairly natural assumption of any creation tale that there was no life before it was created. That is hardly surprising. By that standard almost any religion is "true".

And the water on the Moon is insignificant for any life there. It only exists as a remnant from its past and was predicted quite some time ago. That what was predicted was found is not very surprising either.

I am speaking strictly of the moon and its present state (in a descriptive sense "formless and void") in contrast to the verdant greenness of the earth. That greenness and life was not always there, even by evolution's standards.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You're optimistic. You talk about pollution -- the seas are flooded with junk from plastic and other stuff. Yet you are optimistic about mankind improving things...while people are killing one another, bombing each other out, lying, stealing, hurting the underdog, etc. So you're optimistic as the ocean levels will undoubtedly keep rising, coastal town and cities flooded out.

You are mistaken about so much. Yes, there is pollution. But to fix a problem one has to be aware of it. We used to simply ignore the problems and think that was the way it was. You should study history a bit.

And the Earth is more peaceful now than it was at any time in its past. It may not seem that way. Bad news sells. Good news is boring. You could do a little research on deaths from war, deaths from violence, etc.. Things are not "getting worse all the time".

 

[Subduction Zone]

I am speaking strictly of the moon and its present state (in a descriptive sense "formless and void") in contrast to the verdant greenness of the earth. That greenness and life was not always there, even by evolution's standards.

Yes, we know that. So what?

 

[YoursTrue]

Of course the Moon had no life "in the beginning" why would you expect anything else? Do you know how the Moon formed? Hint: Magic is almost certainly not the answer.

Nothing to do with magic. It has to do with recognizing that the Bible writer knew the earth was devoid of life as we know it today, no vegetation, no animal or human life. Similar to the moon, even though I know it's not the equivalent. It was clearly (by any standards) similar to the moon. Nothing-ness. Kind of.

 

[YoursTrue]

You are mistaken about so much. Yes, there is pollution. But to fix a problem one has to be aware of it. We used to simply ignore the problems and think that was the way it was. You should study history a bit.

And the Earth is more peaceful now than it was at any time in its past. It may not seem that way. Bad news sells. Good news is boring. You could do a little research on deaths from war, deaths from violence, etc.. Things are not "getting worse all the time".

Many, many people are not aware of the vast pollution of the earth and the waterways. And -- many do not care.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Many, many people are not aware of the vast pollution of the earth and the waterways. And -- many do not care.

That is true. But the people that do know are doing something about it. That is why the air is much cleaner now in the U.S. than it was in the '60's. Facts are facts. Yes, you will hear about more pollution, but that is only because we are more aware. Not because there is more of it.

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes, we know that. So what?

So what you ask? Moses knew thousands of years before modern science figured it, that the earth had no vegetation and life on it.

 

[YoursTrue]

That is true. But the people that do know are doing something about it. That is why the air is much cleaner now in the U.S. than it was in the '60's. Facts are facts. Yes, you will hear about more pollution, but that is only because we are more aware. Not because there is more of it.

Here is where I will tell you a few things. Perhaps you remember when the Jewish leader spoke to his associates when considering to put Jesus to death, that it was better for one man to die than the whole nation. What do I mean by bringing that up? I truly doubt all those who had relatives and loved ones who die by violence, tsunami, pollution, reckless accidents, will be happy thinking that things will get better in the pollution and violence realm. Also, according to the scriptures, when the end comes, the earth would still be a going concern (a viable entity). It would not be put completely out of commission by man, although it certainly is heading in that direction. As foretold, however, God will put an end to the destroying of the earth.