Thoughts regarding the premises behind conspiracy theories in politics

[Shaul]

Labeling something as a conspiracy theory doesn't add clarity. A theory, or mere meme, will advance or decline on its own merits or lack thereof. Understanding a putative conspiracy theory is better than pigeonholing it with a dismissive label.

 

[sayak83]

There's a thread regarding the Illuminati currently which brings up some interesting points that got me thinking about people generally relate to certain sub-set of ideas which are often relegated to the realm of "conspiracy theory."

Since many of these theories involve politics, which deals with realm of human governance and the total complex of relations within human society, one can make certain observations about the commonalities of human politics which can be discerned throughout the ages. Some of these observed commonalities might include:

- Most human societies are ruled from the top down, with a few decision makers at the top directing or guiding the lives of the many.
- Power corrupts (and absolute power corrupts absolutely).
- Wealthy people tend to want to increase their wealth, or at least retain what they already have.
- Businesses are in business to make money.
- Wealthy and powerful people hold greater influence over a given society than the common people.
- People who do bad or immoral things tend to want to conceal their actions from others.

In my opinion, these observations are self-evident and can be found throughout history as key elements in politics and human governance. Due to certain frailties and failings of human nature, human politics itself has always been a relatively dirty business. However, through most of human history, governments, politicians, and other powerful people have been rather brazen about exerting their power and flexing their muscle to keep the lower classes in line. The Romans would crucify dissidents and rebels openly for all to see, to send an unambiguous message that "we are in charge." The same basic principle operated throughout the Middle Ages, characterized by beheadings, burnings, putting people to rack, etc. Even the lowliest peasants, illiterate and ignorant, knew what the score was and who was in charge.
So, in other words, the ways and means of human governance and the wielding of political power has tended towards brutal, underhanded, and amoral/immoral methods. Some people might say "this is just how the 'real world' works."

Over the past 200-300 years, there have been movements advocating that society move away from those old, primitive methods of governance and work towards more liberal and democratic societies, as manifested in the American and French Revolutions, as well as a whole series of revolutions world-wide during the 19th and 20th centuries. People were demanding changes in "how the world works" and how the few in power governed over the masses in their respective societies.

To be sure, our governments did change. In the U.S., we have a democratic-republican political system, a Constitutional order with an emphasis on human rights, and an open society with a robust free press. Many Americans believe we have evolved beyond political systems which were associated with atrocities, slavery, cruel and unusual punishments, and other forms of human degradation and horror. Many believe that the world as a whole has mostly evolved from those earlier ways and that we are in a different age now. Technologically, industrially, and scientifically, this is certainly true, and life has definitely improved by leaps and bounds from the earlier, more primitive eras. However, after a few centuries of industrialism and expansion, that's taken a significant toll on our environment, eco-system, and climate.

This belief feeds into a common view held by Americans that America is on the side of "good." We are the "leader of the free world," fighting for democracy and freedom against tyranny and dictatorship. While I don't think many Americans literally believe this wholeheartedly, it does seem to be prominent within the overall American mythos and how we generally perceive ourselves. This remains true, even as many people often show open disdain for the politicians and the government in general.

But I have found that this belief seems to be often prominent in discussions regarding government when they're the subject of some kind of conspiracy theory. When people who have been raised to believe that they are living in the land of the free and home of the brave all their lives, the suggestion or possibility that that may not be true might lead to a reflexive denial and strong resistance to the idea.

Things that would be considered "politics as usual" throughout most of history - and even within many governments in the world today - are dismissed as "impossible" or "implausible" simply because...well...we're Americans and we simply don't do things like that. We believe in freedom, democracy, human rights, and good, honorable government. Of course, we allow that there will be some "bad apples," but our system works, and the bad apples are always caught. Good will always triumph over evil. Or so we've been led to believe, and anyone who doesn't believe it must be some kind of wing-nut or conspiracy theorist or maybe even evil.

For me personally, I've always been somewhat agnostic about conspiracy theories. I neither believe nor disbelieve, but I never felt any great need to go out of my way to challenge or confront anyone putting forth some sort of conspiracy theory. I don't generally entertain conspiracy theories that involve aliens, Satan, or anything that might be considered "not of this Earth."

But when it comes to theories involving politicians, bureaucrats, generals, police officers, or businesspeople behaving badly, then those are things I know exist in human politics in general, so I can put it in the "it's possible" category. Although, if there isn't enough evidence to prove it, then it may remain unproven, yet still within the range of possibility.

But I've discerned a strong resistance to the idea that "it's possible," as some people ostensibly believe that it undermines faith in the system and the ideals upon which it is founded. Because this is America, and we just wouldn't do things like that.

I guess what I'm really getting at here, when I look at the ways and means of how America has grown and remained powerful - and how we continue to try to exert that power, I ask myself: Has the world really changed that much? Has human nature changed? Have we really grown and become more enlightened? Is all this talk about "we are the good guys" just a big put on? Just some act? Are we just better at pretending?

I don't want to believe that any of these conspiracy theories are true, and I'd like to believe that we really are "the good guys" in this great human struggle we seem to having. But sometimes, I'm not too sure about that.

The problem with conspiracy theories are that they are too convoluted and fantastical to believe and goes against widely available evidence . That powerful people usually are corrupt is not the main problem in them.
Like the moon landing was hoax. Or 9/11 was inside job etc.

 

[Secret Chief]

David Icke.

 

[Heyo]

The problem with conspiracy theories are that they are too convoluted and fantastical to believe and goes against widely available evidence . That powerful people usually are corrupt is not the main problem in them.
Like the moon landing was hoax. Or 9/11 was inside job etc.

The problem with clandestine projects is that they are often convoluted and too fantastical to believe for a normal thinking person, and hiding evidence is part of the project.
Like project MK Ultra. Or 9/11 was an inside job.

 

[Stevicus]

The problem with conspiracy theories are that they are too convoluted and fantastical to believe and goes against widely available evidence . That powerful people usually are corrupt is not the main problem in them.
Like the moon landing was hoax. Or 9/11 was inside job etc.

The bottom line is that they are mainly presented as speculative, not outright accusations. It's like saying "there could be life on other planets." Since we don't know either way, it's a distinct possibility. If someone has a bumper sticker that says "we are not alone," it doesn't seem to trigger the same kind of reaction as "9/11 was an inside job," even though both are speculative statements without sufficient evidence to prove it. Why do you think that is?

 

[Madsaac]

There's a thread regarding the Illuminati currently which brings up some interesting points that got me thinking about people generally relate to certain sub-set of ideas which are often relegated to the realm of "conspiracy theory."

Since many of these theories involve politics, which deals with realm of human governance and the total complex of relations within human society, one can make certain observations about the commonalities of human politics which can be discerned throughout the ages. Some of these observed commonalities might include:

- Most human societies are ruled from the top down, with a few decision makers at the top directing or guiding the lives of the many.
- Power corrupts (and absolute power corrupts absolutely).
- Wealthy people tend to want to increase their wealth, or at least retain what they already have.
- Businesses are in business to make money.
- Wealthy and powerful people hold greater influence over a given society than the common people.
- People who do bad or immoral things tend to want to conceal their actions from others.

In my opinion, these observations are self-evident and can be found throughout history as key elements in politics and human governance. Due to certain frailties and failings of human nature, human politics itself has always been a relatively dirty business. However, through most of human history, governments, politicians, and other powerful people have been rather brazen about exerting their power and flexing their muscle to keep the lower classes in line. The Romans would crucify dissidents and rebels openly for all to see, to send an unambiguous message that "we are in charge." The same basic principle operated throughout the Middle Ages, characterized by beheadings, burnings, putting people to rack, etc. Even the lowliest peasants, illiterate and ignorant, knew what the score was and who was in charge.
So, in other words, the ways and means of human governance and the wielding of political power has tended towards brutal, underhanded, and amoral/immoral methods. Some people might say "this is just how the 'real world' works."

Over the past 200-300 years, there have been movements advocating that society move away from those old, primitive methods of governance and work towards more liberal and democratic societies, as manifested in the American and French Revolutions, as well as a whole series of revolutions world-wide during the 19th and 20th centuries. People were demanding changes in "how the world works" and how the few in power governed over the masses in their respective societies.

To be sure, our governments did change. In the U.S., we have a democratic-republican political system, a Constitutional order with an emphasis on human rights, and an open society with a robust free press. Many Americans believe we have evolved beyond political systems which were associated with atrocities, slavery, cruel and unusual punishments, and other forms of human degradation and horror. Many believe that the world as a whole has mostly evolved from those earlier ways and that we are in a different age now. Technologically, industrially, and scientifically, this is certainly true, and life has definitely improved by leaps and bounds from the earlier, more primitive eras. However, after a few centuries of industrialism and expansion, that's taken a significant toll on our environment, eco-system, and climate.

This belief feeds into a common view held by Americans that America is on the side of "good." We are the "leader of the free world," fighting for democracy and freedom against tyranny and dictatorship. While I don't think many Americans literally believe this wholeheartedly, it does seem to be prominent within the overall American mythos and how we generally perceive ourselves. This remains true, even as many people often show open disdain for the politicians and the government in general.

But I have found that this belief seems to be often prominent in discussions regarding government when they're the subject of some kind of conspiracy theory. When people who have been raised to believe that they are living in the land of the free and home of the brave all their lives, the suggestion or possibility that that may not be true might lead to a reflexive denial and strong resistance to the idea.

Things that would be considered "politics as usual" throughout most of history - and even within many governments in the world today - are dismissed as "impossible" or "implausible" simply because...well...we're Americans and we simply don't do things like that. We believe in freedom, democracy, human rights, and good, honorable government. Of course, we allow that there will be some "bad apples," but our system works, and the bad apples are always caught. Good will always triumph over evil. Or so we've been led to believe, and anyone who doesn't believe it must be some kind of wing-nut or conspiracy theorist or maybe even evil.

For me personally, I've always been somewhat agnostic about conspiracy theories. I neither believe nor disbelieve, but I never felt any great need to go out of my way to challenge or confront anyone putting forth some sort of conspiracy theory. I don't generally entertain conspiracy theories that involve aliens, Satan, or anything that might be considered "not of this Earth."

But when it comes to theories involving politicians, bureaucrats, generals, police officers, or businesspeople behaving badly, then those are things I know exist in human politics in general, so I can put it in the "it's possible" category. Although, if there isn't enough evidence to prove it, then it may remain unproven, yet still within the range of possibility.

But I've discerned a strong resistance to the idea that "it's possible," as some people ostensibly believe that it undermines faith in the system and the ideals upon which it is founded. Because this is America, and we just wouldn't do things like that.

I guess what I'm really getting at here, when I look at the ways and means of how America has grown and remained powerful - and how we continue to try to exert that power, I ask myself: Has the world really changed that much? Has human nature changed? Have we really grown and become more enlightened? Is all this talk about "we are the good guys" just a big put on? Just some act? Are we just better at pretending?

I don't want to believe that any of these conspiracy theories are true, and I'd like to believe that we really are "the good guys" in this great human struggle we seem to having. But sometimes, I'm not too sure about that.

I think the media has a lot to do with how conspiracy theories are perceived. Often it doesn't matter if these conspiracy theories are true on not, it's the perception that they are true is what matters.

Like for example, in Australia, a number of people protested in opposition to public health measures introduced during the COVID-19 pandemic.

People were motivated by strong personal grievances based on perceived negative experiences. These beliefs fostered mistrust and strong anti-government sentiment, even though in reality, it was the correct thing to do.

Perception and reality can often be one.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

David Icke.

Love David Icke. He helped get me thinking about the world on a fundamental level.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

There's a thread regarding the Illuminati currently which brings up some interesting points that got me thinking about people generally relate to certain sub-set of ideas which are often relegated to the realm of "conspiracy theory."

Since many of these theories involve politics, which deals with realm of human governance and the total complex of relations within human society, one can make certain observations about the commonalities of human politics which can be discerned throughout the ages. Some of these observed commonalities might include:

- Most human societies are ruled from the top down, with a few decision makers at the top directing or guiding the lives of the many.
- Power corrupts (and absolute power corrupts absolutely).
- Wealthy people tend to want to increase their wealth, or at least retain what they already have.
- Businesses are in business to make money.
- Wealthy and powerful people hold greater influence over a given society than the common people.
- People who do bad or immoral things tend to want to conceal their actions from others.

In my opinion, these observations are self-evident and can be found throughout history as key elements in politics and human governance. Due to certain frailties and failings of human nature, human politics itself has always been a relatively dirty business. However, through most of human history, governments, politicians, and other powerful people have been rather brazen about exerting their power and flexing their muscle to keep the lower classes in line. The Romans would crucify dissidents and rebels openly for all to see, to send an unambiguous message that "we are in charge." The same basic principle operated throughout the Middle Ages, characterized by beheadings, burnings, putting people to rack, etc. Even the lowliest peasants, illiterate and ignorant, knew what the score was and who was in charge.
So, in other words, the ways and means of human governance and the wielding of political power has tended towards brutal, underhanded, and amoral/immoral methods. Some people might say "this is just how the 'real world' works."

Over the past 200-300 years, there have been movements advocating that society move away from those old, primitive methods of governance and work towards more liberal and democratic societies, as manifested in the American and French Revolutions, as well as a whole series of revolutions world-wide during the 19th and 20th centuries. People were demanding changes in "how the world works" and how the few in power governed over the masses in their respective societies.

To be sure, our governments did change. In the U.S., we have a democratic-republican political system, a Constitutional order with an emphasis on human rights, and an open society with a robust free press. Many Americans believe we have evolved beyond political systems which were associated with atrocities, slavery, cruel and unusual punishments, and other forms of human degradation and horror. Many believe that the world as a whole has mostly evolved from those earlier ways and that we are in a different age now. Technologically, industrially, and scientifically, this is certainly true, and life has definitely improved by leaps and bounds from the earlier, more primitive eras. However, after a few centuries of industrialism and expansion, that's taken a significant toll on our environment, eco-system, and climate.

This belief feeds into a common view held by Americans that America is on the side of "good." We are the "leader of the free world," fighting for democracy and freedom against tyranny and dictatorship. While I don't think many Americans literally believe this wholeheartedly, it does seem to be prominent within the overall American mythos and how we generally perceive ourselves. This remains true, even as many people often show open disdain for the politicians and the government in general.

But I have found that this belief seems to be often prominent in discussions regarding government when they're the subject of some kind of conspiracy theory. When people who have been raised to believe that they are living in the land of the free and home of the brave all their lives, the suggestion or possibility that that may not be true might lead to a reflexive denial and strong resistance to the idea.

Things that would be considered "politics as usual" throughout most of history - and even within many governments in the world today - are dismissed as "impossible" or "implausible" simply because...well...we're Americans and we simply don't do things like that. We believe in freedom, democracy, human rights, and good, honorable government. Of course, we allow that there will be some "bad apples," but our system works, and the bad apples are always caught. Good will always triumph over evil. Or so we've been led to believe, and anyone who doesn't believe it must be some kind of wing-nut or conspiracy theorist or maybe even evil.

For me personally, I've always been somewhat agnostic about conspiracy theories. I neither believe nor disbelieve, but I never felt any great need to go out of my way to challenge or confront anyone putting forth some sort of conspiracy theory. I don't generally entertain conspiracy theories that involve aliens, Satan, or anything that might be considered "not of this Earth."

But when it comes to theories involving politicians, bureaucrats, generals, police officers, or businesspeople behaving badly, then those are things I know exist in human politics in general, so I can put it in the "it's possible" category. Although, if there isn't enough evidence to prove it, then it may remain unproven, yet still within the range of possibility.

But I've discerned a strong resistance to the idea that "it's possible," as some people ostensibly believe that it undermines faith in the system and the ideals upon which it is founded. Because this is America, and we just wouldn't do things like that.

I guess what I'm really getting at here, when I look at the ways and means of how America has grown and remained powerful - and how we continue to try to exert that power, I ask myself: Has the world really changed that much? Has human nature changed? Have we really grown and become more enlightened? Is all this talk about "we are the good guys" just a big put on? Just some act? Are we just better at pretending?

I don't want to believe that any of these conspiracy theories are true, and I'd like to believe that we really are "the good guys" in this great human struggle we seem to having. But sometimes, I'm not too sure about that.

I believe in conspiracy truths, not conspiracy theories. I actually wish I hadn't done all the reading and documentary watching I have over the years. The world is basically run by Jimmy Savile types. It's sick beyond comprehension. It's easier not to know and be in denial.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Since many of these theories involve politics, which deals with realm of human governance and the total complex of relations within human society, one can make certain observations about the commonalities of human politics which can be discerned throughout the ages. Some of these observed commonalities might include:

- Most human societies are ruled from the top down, with a few decision makers at the top directing or guiding the lives of the many.
- Power corrupts (and absolute power corrupts absolutely).
- Wealthy people tend to want to increase their wealth, or at least retain what they already have.
- Businesses are in business to make money.
- Wealthy and powerful people hold greater influence over a given society than the common people.
- People who do bad or immoral things tend to want to conceal their actions from others.

In my opinion, these observations are self-evident and can be found throughout history as key elements in politics and human governance.

Yeah, I'm not 100% sure. I mean, thousands of years ago, maybe the peasant was told that the emperor or king was god, or a son of god, and maybe that wasn't considered a conspiracy, maybe that was considered to be closer to a fact. I think all, or most of the things on the list probably always did elicit suspicion though, even if it was in the mainstream to not think there was another motive behind what you were seeing

Maybe it has to do with what people generally would ideally like to be closer to the truth. I mean, if people believe that doing business is good for everyone, for the whole of society, then they don't want to believe it's just about money. People want to believe that most people want to be honest, and not conceal immorality. They don't want to believe that 'power corrupts' is some kind of incorrigible fact

Due to certain frailties and failings of human nature, human politics itself has always been a relatively dirty business. However, through most of human history, governments, politicians, and other powerful people have been rather brazen about exerting their power and flexing their muscle to keep the lower classes in line. The Romans would crucify dissidents and rebels openly for all to see, to send an unambiguous message that "we are in charge."

But then again , I think maybe there always a strong 'grassroots' element to what a government did. During the story of the trial of Jesus for example, which side displayed more ambiguity about what should happen: the captors, or the crowd of shouters? During the Roman empire, was there a period where the emperor was changing over every year or so, and who was deciding that? The military, or a more democratic process? During the middle ages, perhaps there were periods of antisemitism, but who was driving that? In the 14th century, was it low educated peasants who may have said they poisoned the wells, causing them to attack Jews, or was it a more educated elite who become antisemitic?

Over the past 200-300 years, there have been movements advocating that society move away from those old, primitive methods of governance and work towards more liberal and democratic societies, as manifested in the American and French Revolutions, as well as a whole series of revolutions world-wide during the 19th and 20th centuries. People were demanding changes in "how the world works" and how the few in power governed over the masses in their respective societies.

But do you think that that the masses of rebelling people during those events were thinking really articulately about those dynamics, or do you think maybe most of them were just dissatisfied in a plainer way, and so they just rode the wave of whatever was happening. I don't really know

Many Americans believe we have evolved beyond political systems which were associated with atrocities, slavery, cruel and unusual punishments, and other forms of human degradation and horror. Many believe that the world as a whole has mostly evolved from those earlier ways and that we are in a different age now.

I don't know, if you read a few books on the work life balance outside of the western world, (and sometimes within it) things aren't maybe all that great. And also if you consider things that may go on in the prison system, and if you consider that lethal injection and the electric chair are actually a bit nightmarish, then it's not really all that much more evovled

For me personally, I've always been somewhat agnostic about conspiracy theories. I neither believe nor disbelieve, but I never felt any great need to go out of my way to challenge or confront anyone putting forth some sort of conspiracy theory. I don't generally entertain conspiracy theories that involve aliens, Satan, or anything that might be considered "not of this Earth."

I'm not entirely sure if we entirely differentiate between which questions are too far out, and which are not, all of the time. I think it can happen that people go overboard, and that can damage society, but not asking bigger questions would probably go against the spirit of science.

There is also an aspect to this that I think is creative in a non-damaging way. There's an element of this that goes into good storytelling, myth, or religious storytelling. I mean, I used to listen to coast to coast, and I'd put it on when I went to bed. So then, sometimes I'd wake up hearing some weird story, and it would kind of spook me a bit.. But I wouldn't take it seriously, instead it would ultimately be something that considered to be a creative thing, that I consumed. I read the book 'Fire in the Sky.' Do I think that it describes something that was real, or not?

I think maybe the creativity it was I consume mainly from these things, at best. But for some people, maybe they go over the line, like with the stuff that happened back in 2020

guess what I'm really getting at here, when I look at the ways and means of how America has grown and remained powerful - and how we continue to try to exert that power, I ask myself: Has the world really changed that much? Has human nature changed? Have we really grown and become more enlightened? Is all this talk about "we are the good guys" just a big put on? Just some act? Are we just better at pretending?

Well, I think there can be stuff about that which can be a bit fake, but I think maybe there's a consensus that they need to do that to show 'strength' in the world. I don't entirely know why, because I believe that pure honesty is a bit of a stronger thing. But I guess I'm not going to claim to know how things work up there, on the international and national level

 

[an anarchist]

I believe in conspiracy truths, not conspiracy theories. I actually wish I hadn't done all the reading and documentary watching I have over the years.

Every day I wish this.

 

[Secret Chief]

Love David Icke. He helped get me thinking about the world on a fundamental level.

What do you fundamentally think about his fundamental thoughts, (self-published) such as:


"He claims that there is an inter-dimensional race of reptilian beings, the Archons or Anunnaki, which have hijacked the Earth. Further, a genetically modified human–Archon hybrid race of reptilian shape-shifters – the Babylonian Brotherhood, Illuminati or "elite" – manipulate events to keep humans in fear, so that the Archons can feed off the resulting "negative energy".

...his identification of the Jewish Rothschild family as reptilians.

In Human Race Get Off Your Knees: The Lion Sleeps No More (2012), he identified the Moon (and later Saturn) as the source of holographic experiences, broadcast by the reptiles, that humanity interprets as reality.

He believes that a genetically modified human/Archon hybrid race of shape-shifting reptilians, known as the "Babylonian Brotherhood" or the Illuminati, manipulate global events to keep humans in constant fear, so the Archons can feed off the "negative energy" this creates. In The Biggest Secret, Icke identified the Brotherhood as descendants of reptilians from the constellation Draco, and said they live in caverns inside the earth.

He confirmed to Andrew Neil in May 2016 that he believes the British royal family are shape-shifting lizards."


- David Icke - Wikipedia

 

[sayak83]

The bottom line is that they are mainly presented as speculative, not outright accusations. It's like saying "there could be life on other planets." Since we don't know either way, it's a distinct possibility. If someone has a bumper sticker that says "we are not alone," it doesn't seem to trigger the same kind of reaction as "9/11 was an inside job," even though both are speculative statements without sufficient evidence to prove it. Why do you think that is?

Primarily because in one case there is no evidence for or against, while in the other the majority view has lots of evidence for it. Also holding such a view is harmful, as one's beliefs are severely affected.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

What do you fundamentally think about his fundamental thoughts, such as:


"He claims that there is an inter-dimensional race of reptilian beings, the Archons or Anunnaki, which have hijacked the Earth. Further, a genetically modified human–Archon hybrid race of reptilian shape-shifters – the Babylonian Brotherhood, Illuminati or "elite" – manipulate events to keep humans in fear, so that the Archons can feed off the resulting "negative energy".

...his identification of the Jewish Rothschild family as reptilians.

In Human Race Get Off Your Knees: The Lion Sleeps No More (2012), he identified the Moon (and later Saturn) as the source of holographic experiences, broadcast by the reptiles, that humanity interprets as reality.

He believes that a genetically modified human/Archon hybrid race of shape-shifting reptilians, known as the "Babylonian Brotherhood" or the Illuminati, manipulate global events to keep humans in constant fear, so the Archons can feed off the "negative energy" this creates. In The Biggest Secret, Icke identified the Brotherhood as descendants of reptilians from the constellation Draco, and said they live in caverns inside the earth.

He confirmed to Andrew Neil in May 2016 that he believes the British royal family are shape-shifting lizards."

etc etc etc etc...

- David Icke - Wikipedia

Most of that Wikipedia article is outdated, there to ridicule or misunderstood. He doesn't say they're literally reptilians or at least not anymore. That is a concept that has been evolving throughout his work. His views of the issue are spiritual at their base and he is a neo-Gnostic in what he believes. He thinks it's ultimately something non-phyical coming from another dimension. It's not literally lizard people, but basically demons who thrive off of negative emotions and acts because they produce energy they feed off of like vampires. He's gone into more depth with this over the past decade. It's not much of anything different from what you get from various religions, and much of his material is consists of discussing religion in some fashion.

He's identified most of the world's powerful people as being part of this in some way, not just the Rothschilds.

As for his Saturn-Moon theory, I find it quite interesting and I don't know if it's true or not. It's fun to read about and consider. Saturn is a very fascinating and bizarre planet, surrounded with a bunch of occult meaning. It's actually my favorite planet. Bit funny to me that it may be Satan, but as I'm basically a Satanist in many respects, I suppose it's fitting. Lol.

Anyway, I love far-out and alternative views of the world. I don't think Icke has everything correct, but I think his work speaks a fair bit of truth about the world. It's like a mythological narrative. He's great at pulling together dense bits of data about a great variety of subjects.

 

[Secret Chief]

Most of that Wikipedia article is outdated, there to ridicule or misunderstood. He doesn't say they're literally reptilians or at least not anymore. That is a concept that has been evolving throughout his work. His views of the issue are spiritual at their base and he is a neo-Gnostic in what he believes. He thinks it's ultimately something non-phyical coming from another dimension. It's not literally lizard people, but basically demons who thrive off of negative emotions and acts because they produce energy they feed off of like vampires. He's gone into more depth with this over the past decade. It's not much of anything different from what you get from various religions, and much of his material is consists of discussing religion in some fashion.

He's identified most of the world's powerful people as being part of this in some way, not just the Rothschilds.

As for his Saturn-Moon theory, I find it quite interesting and I don't know if it's true or not. It's fun to read about and consider. Saturn is a very fascinating and bizarre planet, surrounded with a bunch of occult meaning. It's actually my favorite planet. Bit funny to me that it may be Satan, but as I'm basically a Satanist in many respects, I suppose it's fitting. Lol.

Anyway, I love far-out and alternative views of the world. I don't think Icke has everything correct, but I think his work speaks a fair bit of truth about the world. It's like a mythological narrative. He's great at pulling together dense bits of data about a great variety of subjects.

What I quoted seem longstanding and repeated claims.

More recently:

David Icke makes false claim that vaccines are ‘gene therapy’ - Full Fact

Current thinking:
Posted today on his website:

"David Icke On Weather Manipulation"​

Oh well.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Do you have links to these recent ideas?

I know his ideas from reading his books, not links online. He is an author and also gives presentations to audiences. He also has videos and does interviews. So if you want to know his work, you're going to have to read a book or watch a video. You can go his website ( www.davidicke.com ) and watch some videos of his there, if you're interested. Most of the articles are links to outside news sources.

This is a really good interview:

As for his books, he has quite a few and they're not thin but I think this would be a good one to start with:

https://a.co/d/g8LmmrI

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

What I quoted seem longstanding and repeated claims.

Current thinking:
Posted today on his website:

"David Icke On Weather Manipulation"​

Oh well.

I'm not sure what you were expecting? The mainstream view???

 

[Secret Chief]

I'm not sure what you were expecting?

Something that wasn't idiotic?

 

[Secret Chief]

I know his ideas from reading his books, not links online. He is an author and also gives presentations to audiences. He also has videos and does interviews. So if you want to know his work, you're going to have to read a book or watch a video. You can go his website ( www.davidicke.com ) and watch some videos of his there, if you're interested. Most of the articles are links to outside news sources.

This is a really good interview:

As for his books, he has quite a few and they're not thin but I think this would be a good one to start with:

https://a.co/d/g8LmmrI

I've been looking at his website. Depressing really.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Something that wasn't idiotic?

I'm not quite sure why I bothered replying to you about this, as this was always going to go nowhere. Anything different gets ridiculed. It's reached its inevitable end.

 

[Secret Chief]

I'm not quite sure why I bothered replying to you about this, as this was always going to go nowhere. Anything different gets ridiculed. It's reached its inevitable end.

It sure has.