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Three steps of Lord Vishnu

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
"But apart from the sleep of Viṣhṇu which is Purâṇic, we have a Vedic legend which has the same meaning. In the Ṛig-Veda (VII, 100, 6), Viṣhṇu is represented as having a bad name, viz., shipiviṣhṭa. Thus the poet says, “O Viṣhṇu! what was there to be blamed in thee when thou declaredest ‘I am shipiviṣhṭa’?” Yâska records (Nir. V, 7-9) an old tradition that according to Aupamanyava, Viṣhṇu has two names Shipiviṣhṭa and Viṣhṇu, of which the former has a bad sense (kutsitârthîyam); and then quotes the aforesaid verse which he explains in two ways. The first of these two interpretations accords with that of Aupamanyava; and shipiviṣhṭa is there explained by Yâska, to mean shepaḥ iva nirveṣhṭitaḥ, or “enveloped like the private parts,” or “with rays obscured” (apratipanna-rashmiḥ). Yâska, however, suggests an alternative interpretation and observes that shipiviṣhṭa may be taken as a laudatory appellation, meaning “one whose rays (shipayaḥ) are displayed (âviṣhṭâḥ)

It is inferred by some scholars from this passage that the meaning of the word shipiviṣhṭa had already become uncertain in the days of Yâska; but I do not think it probable, for even in later literature shipiviṣhṭa is an opprobrious appellation meaning either “one whose hair has fallen off,” or “one who is afflicted with an incurable skin disease.” The exact nature of the affliction may be uncertain; but there can be no doubt that shipiviṣhṭa has a bad meaning even in later Sanskrit literature. But in days when the origin of this phrase, as applied to Viṣhṇu, was forgotten, theologians and scholars naturally tried to divest the phrase of its opprobrious import by proposing alternative meanings; and Yâska was probably the first Nairukta to formulate a good meaning for shipiviṣhṭa by suggesting that shipi may be taken to mean “rays.” That is why the passage from the Mahâbhârata (Shânti-Parvan, Chap. 342, vv. 69-71), quoted by Muir, tells us that Yâska was the first to apply the epithet to Viṣhṇu; and it is unreasonable to infer from it, as Muir has done, that the writer of the Mahâbhârata “was not a particularly good Vedic scholar.”

In the Taittirîya Saṁhitâ, we are told that Viṣhṇu was worshipped as Shipiviṣhṭa (II, 2, 12, 4 and 5), and that shipi means cattle or pashavaḥ (II, 5, 5, 2; Tân. Br. XVIII, 16, 26). Shipiviṣhṭa is thus explained as a laudatory appellation by taking shipi equal to “cattle,” “sacrifice” or “rays.” But these etymological devices have failed to invest the word with a good sense in Sanskrit literature; and this fact by itself is sufficient to show that the word shipiviṣhṭa originally was, and has always been, a term of reproach indicating some bodily affliction, though the nature of it was not exactly known. The theological scholars, it is true, have tried to explain the word in a different sense; but this is due to their unwillingness to give opprobrious names to their gods, rather than to any uncertainty about the real meaning of the word. It was thus that the word shipiviṣhṭa, which is originally a bad name (kutsitârthiyam) according to Aupamanyava, was converted into a. mysterious (guhya) name for the deity.

But this transition of meaning is confined only to the theological literature, and did not pass over into the non-theological works, for the obvious reason that in., ordinary language the bad meaning of the word was sufficiently familiar to the people. There can, therefore, be little doubt that, in VII, 100, 5 and 6, shipiviṣhṭa is used in a bad sense as, stated by Aupamanyava. These verses have been translated by Muir as follows: — “I, a devoted worshipper, who know the sacred rites, today celebrate this thy name shipiviṣhṭa, I, who am weak, laud thee who art-strong and dwellest beyond this lower world (kṣhayantam asya rajasaḥ parâke). What, Viṣhṇu, hast thou to blame, that thou declaredest, ‘I am Shipiviṣhṭa. Do not conceal from us this form (varpas) since thou didst assume another shape in the battle.” The phrase “dwelling in the lower world” (rajasaḥ parâke), or “beyond this world,” furnishes us with a clue to the real meaning of the passage. It was in the nether world that Viṣhṇu bore this bad name.

And what was the bad name after all? Shipiviṣhṭa, or “enveloped like shepa,” meaning that his rays were obscured, or that he was temporarily concealed in a dark cover. The poet, therefore, asks Viṣhṇu not to be ashamed of the epithet, because, says he, the form indicated by the bad name is only temporarily assumed, as a dark armor, for the purpose of fighting with the Asuras, and as it was no longer needed, Viṣhṇu is invoked to reveal his true form (varpas) to the worshiper. That is the real meaning of the verses quoted above, and in spite of the attempt of Yâska and other scholars to convert the bad name of Viṣhṇu into a good one by the help of etymological speculations, it is plain that shipiviṣhṭa was a bad name, and that it signified the dark outer appearance of Viṣhṇu in his fight with the demons in the nether world. If the sun is called bṛihach-chhepas when moving in regions above the horizon, he can be very well described as shipiviṣhṭa or enveloped like shepa, “when moving in the nether world” and there is hardly anything therein of which the deity or his worshipers should be ashamed.

Later Purâṇic tradition represents Viṣhṇu as sleeping during this period; but whether we take it as sleep or disease it means one and the same thing. It is the story of Viṣhṇu going down to the nether world, dark or diseased, to plant his third step on the head of the Asuras, or in a dark armor to help Indra in his struggle for waters and light, a struggle, which, we have seen, lasted for a long time and resulted in the flowing of waters, the recovery of the dawn and the coming out of the sun in a bright armor after a long and continuous darkness."
(Quoted from Tilak's 'Arctic Home in Vedas'
 

NobodyYouKnow

Misanthropist
When I read the title, I thought it was going to reference the Avatara of Lord Vishnu called Bali, who was refused service during a demon's Havana (to gain power and world domination)...

So Bali asked the demon (forgets name now) for only three steps of land in payment.

With the first step, he treads on the world. With the second step, he treads on the universe and with the third step, he treads on the demon's head and sends him straight to hell.

I forget the whole story and the intricacies thereof, but I thought the thread was gonna be about this.

I read your OP, Aup and I don't get it. lol

* I even had to look up what 'opprobrious appellation' meant - I learn new words every day. lol

Om Namah Shivaya
 
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Jaskaran Singh

Divosūnupriyaḥ
When I read the title, I thought it was going to reference the Avatara of Lord Vishnu called Bali, who was refused service during a demon's Havana (to gain power and world domination)...

So Bali asked the demon (forgets name now) for only three steps of land in payment.
vAmana is the avatAra and bali is the demon (see 4:33-5:30)...
[youtube]ZSfyWJJP-QE[/youtube]
 

NobodyYouKnow

Misanthropist

vAmana is the avatAra and bali is the demon...
[youtube]ZSfyWJJP-QE[/youtube]
Oh yes...thank you for that. It's been like 30 years since I last heard that story (I have been a Shaiva ever since) - so I must brush up on all that stuff I learned before.

Om Namah Shivaya
 

Jaskaran Singh

Divosūnupriyaḥ
...and with the third step, he treads on the demon's head and sends him straight to hell.
Well, actually he was pleased with bali and allowed him to rule over the nether-regions, not necessarily to suffer ("sends him straight to hell" reads as if it has a negative connotation). However, he does step on the head of bali:
vamana.jpg

Oh yes...thank you for that. It's been like 30 years since I last heard that story (I have been a Shaiva ever since) - so I must brush up on all that stuff I learned before.

Om Namah Shivaya
No problemo...:)
 

NobodyYouKnow

Misanthropist
It's okay JS and I feel like a total git now. lol

Notes to self -

1. Don't rely on memory, research it (all I knew was Avatar of Visnu + demon + three steps with a character called Bali in there somewhere).

2. Don't post as soon as one first wakes up - have coffee first.

3. Stick to Shaivism when all else fails &

4. Aup uses too many big words. lol

Om Namah Shivaya
 

NobodyYouKnow

Misanthropist

You're not a git, you're very intelligent.

Meh, this makes me feel like drinking coffee....

He didn't write it though, he quoted it from Bal Gangadhar Tilak.
Thank you, sweetie. I need to be reminded of that sometimes.

Lets just call it a 'brain fart' - humans are susceptible to this and get all embarrassed when ever it happens.

I see...Aup quoted it. It still doesn't alter the 'wtf did I just read?' factor. lol

I think I am just having a 'bad head day'.

*goes to the joke forum. lol

Om Namah Shivaya
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Lord Vishnu was so pleased by the honesty and humbleness of King Bali that he has promised Bali to be the Indra in the next 'manavantara', i.e., that of Savarni Manu.

IMHO, we do not find anything about Vamana avatara in Vedas because Aryans had not reached Kerala by that time. Aryans were still perhaps in Brahmavarta Pradesh. Vishnu and Vamana were merged when they came to know each other.
 
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NobodyYouKnow

Misanthropist
Lord Vishnu was so pleased by the honesty and humbleness of King Bali that he has promised Bali to be the Indra in the next 'manavantara', i.e., that of Savarni Manu.

IMHO, we do not find anything about Vamana avatara in Vedas because Aryans had not reached Kerala by that time. Aryans were still perhaps in Brahmavarta Pradesh. Vishnu and Vamana were merged when they came to know each other.
I am typing through a migraine, so please forgive...

I don't understand the 'timeline' for any of that.

Indra was one of the main gods of the Vedic period, correct?

Therefore, if King Bali was promised to be Indra after the Vedas, how does that work exactly?

Om Namah Shivaya
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Don't think too intensely through the migraine. You are welcome to ignore my posts which discuss Ancient history of India. But to clarify, Aryans moved southward and eastward possibly around 1,900 BC after climate and tectonic changes in Brahmavarta (Kurukshetra region) and drying up of River Sarasvati. So possibly the merger came around 1,500 BC. That is generally the Upanishadic time.

Rivers coming down from Himalayas around 1,900 BC including Sarasvati and its tributories.

aupmanyav-albums-vraja-picture4998-brahmavarta.jpg
aupmanyav-albums-vraja-picture5004-track.jpg


The area marked with yellow lines is where Chanell changes are suspected. Please note that thin green straight lines may be because of irrigation channels. The red line in the middle of the yellow area is where the uplift of land may have taken place. This area is known to be earthquake prone (Grade V). See larger map in the album.
 
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Ravi500

Active Member
Wish to state here that Arya means noble or a civilized person in Hinduism. It does not have any racial connotation whatsoever, as made up by the european pseudoscholars in the 19th century.

I have stated this before that it is the tremondous negative karma created by the european scholars in distorting the universalist Arya culture into a race related one lead to the second world war and its results.

All sects of Hinduism are also unanimous in their consensus that Arya means the cultured or civilized one, and does not have any racial connection whatsoever.
 

Ravi500

Active Member
Bali was renamed as Mahabali by none other than Lord Vishnu himself. When he was just a step away from acquiring domination over the universe , he refused to conclude the last step till he had fed Vishnu, who had come as Vamana over to the site of the yagna seeking alms.

Though Bali's charitable act lead to the cessation of the yagna before it reached its objective, Bali was honoured as Mahabali by Lord Vishnu for his rightesousness and generousity, and was uplifted to the position of Indra in the next Mahayuga.

The lesson we have to learn from this is that whatever you give to the Lord, the Lord gives it back many times over . :)

There is just no proportion or equation in this relationship. ;)
 
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