Time and Quantum timelessness

[shunyadragon]

In another forum I got a surprising emotional response concerning the nature of the time space relationship of our universe, and the timelessness of the quantum world outside the time/space relationship of our universe and all possible universes.

References in the next next post to begin the discussion.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

This makes me so sad, I can't stop crying.

 

[shunyadragon]

This makes me so sad, I can't stop crying.

The emotional response was from some conservatives who propose that timelessness in the Quantum World was not possible,

 

[wizanda]

the timelessness of the quantum world outside the time/space relationship

Within my understanding of the 13 dimensions, quantified from my NDE, with all religions, science, etc...

The 4th dimension is linear time, not space as well...

When we go to the 8th dimension it is infinity, thus it is like chucking a pebble into a pool; the ripples in a direction is linear time, like a fractal of possibilities...

Yet if the pebble was never thrown; then there would be no ripples or a need for a pool in the first place.

Imagine a formless reality, which is the higher dimensions; like the 9th dimension is chaos outside of what is formed yet.

Doubt science will ever understand it fully, as it goes into metaphysical concepts that can not be quantified; yet clearly exist when we leave this plain of perception.

 

[shunyadragon]

The following The first reference:

From: Source: [quant-ph/0112119] Quantum mechanics without spacetime - a possible case for noncommutative differential geometry?

"Quantum mechanics without spacetime - a possible case for noncommutative differential geometry?

T. P. Singh (Tata Institute, Mumbai)
(Submitted on 20 Dec 2001)
The rules of quantum mechanics require a time coordinate for their formulation. However, a notion of time is in general possible only when a classical spacetime geometry exists. Such a geometry is itself produced by classical matter sources. Thus it could be said that the currently known formulation of quantum mechanics pre-assumes the presence of classical matter fields. A more fundamental formulation of quantum mechanics should exist, which avoids having to use a notion of time. In this paper we discuss as to how such a fundamental formulation could be constructed for single particle, non-relativistic quantum mechanics. We argue that there is an underlying non-linear theory of quantum gravity, to which both standard quantum mechanics and classical general relativity are approximations. The timeless formulation of quantum mechanics follows from the underlying theory when the mass of the particle is much smaller than Planck mass. On the other hand, when the particle's mass is much larger than Planck mass, space/time emerges and the underlying theory should reduce to classical mechanics and general relativity. We also suggest that noncommutative differential geometry is a possible candidate for describing this underlying theory."

© Copyright Original Source

 

[DavidFirth]

More speculation and guesswork. Don't you guys ever tire of it?

 

[shunyadragon]

Within my understanding of the 13 dimensions, quantified from my NDE, with all religions, science, etc...

The 4th dimension is linear time, not space as well...

When we go to the 8th dimension it is infinity, thus it is like chucking a pebble into a pool; the ripples in a direction is linear time, like a fractal of possibilities...

Yet if the pebble was never thrown; then there would be no ripples or a need for a pool in the first place.

Imagine a formless reality, which is the higher dimensions; like the 9th dimension is chaos outside of what is formed yet.

Doubt science will ever understand it fully, as it goes into metaphysical concepts that can not be quantified; yet clearly exist when we leave this plain of perception.

Interesting, but these metaphysical questions probably cannot be addressed in this thread dealing with the science of Quantum Mechanics timelessness, and the time/space relationships of our universe.

 

[shunyadragon]

More speculation and guesswork. Don't you guys ever tire of it?

Please respond coherently with references.

 

[shunyadragon]

Imagine a formless reality, which is the higher dimensions; like the 9th dimension is chaos outside of what is formed yet.

I find this interesting. It is not falsifiable in science at present, but the timeless formless Quantum world beyond our time/space universe is likely compatible with this. Chaos to me would not be mindless disorder, but but a fractal existence explained by Chaos Theory.

 

[Yerda]

The emotional response was from some conservatives who propose that timelessness in the Quantum World was not possible,

Conservatives? As in the political orientation?

 

[shunyadragon]

Conservatives? As in the political orientation?

Religious, but also political. David Firth's response is sort of an example,

 

[Nakosis]

The following The first reference:

From: Source: [quant-ph/0112119] Quantum mechanics without spacetime - a possible case for noncommutative differential geometry?

"Quantum mechanics without spacetime - a possible case for noncommutative differential geometry?

T. P. Singh (Tata Institute, Mumbai)
(Submitted on 20 Dec 2001)
The rules of quantum mechanics require a time coordinate for their formulation. However, a notion of time is in general possible only when a classical spacetime geometry exists. Such a geometry is itself produced by classical matter sources. Thus it could be said that the currently known formulation of quantum mechanics pre-assumes the presence of classical matter fields. A more fundamental formulation of quantum mechanics should exist, which avoids having to use a notion of time. In this paper we discuss as to how such a fundamental formulation could be constructed for single particle, non-relativistic quantum mechanics. We argue that there is an underlying non-linear theory of quantum gravity, to which both standard quantum mechanics and classical general relativity are approximations. The timeless formulation of quantum mechanics follows from the underlying theory when the mass of the particle is much smaller than Planck mass. On the other hand, when the particle's mass is much larger than Planck mass, space/time emerges and the underlying theory should reduce to classical mechanics and general relativity. We also suggest that noncommutative differential geometry is a possible candidate for describing this underlying theory."

© Copyright Original Source

How does removing time from the equation help explain quantum mechanics?

 

[wizanda]

Chaos to me would not be mindless disorder, but but a fractal existence explained by Chaos Theory.

Chaos theory is within this mathematically precise Matrix; if we had a large enough computer we could quantify many things, that are deemed Chaos theory...

Would love to do zillions of breaks on a pool table, same strength, exact same strike, and see how long it took to quantify the results.

Yet the 9th dimension being referred to, is where random quantum strands have no formula, a place before order.

 

[Nakosis]

What was explained to me is that time is not a physical thing. Time is a way of measuring the change in physical objects.

Also explained to me is that now is the same now experienced by everything in the universe. Someone traveling at the speed of light will experience the same now that we experience. Time dilation is not time dilation. What it is is that the speed at which an object changes has slowed down.

A clock moving at the speed of light time is not moving slower for it. The movement of the "hands" of the clock is changing at a slower pace than the stationary clock by the observer.

As I see it, there really is no time. There is only now, this moment which is the same moment experienced by the entire universe. The past doesn't exist, it did in it's moment exist but now no longer does. The universe has changed, it now exists in it's current state.

Time is an abstract concept we use to measure to the speed of change in the universe. There is not a constant flow of time. What there is, is a constant flow of change.

 

[wizanda]

metaphysical questions probably cannot be addressed in this thread dealing with the science of Quantum Mechanics timelessness

Science can't quantify quantum physics; we can't even see it properly yet... A lot is still based on speculation...

Metaphysics:
the branch of philosophy that deals with the first principles of things, including abstract concepts such as being, knowing, identity, time, and space.

abstract theory with no basis in reality.

Which means currently much of our quantum physics is still based on metaphysics.

 

[shunyadragon]

How does removing time from the equation help explain quantum mechanics?

I would like more input from others on this.

In the theory of relativity as applied to our time/space relationship breaks down at the Quantum level. Also the development of the time-independent Schrödinger equation is important in explaining the wave-like behavior of the basic particles.
More in later posts,

 

[shunyadragon]

Science can't quantify quantum physics; we can't even see it properly yet... A lot is still based on speculation...

Well, this goes to far. Yes there are many many unanswered questions, but science has been able to 'quantify' things. The basic Planck units were developed through the concepts of Quantum Mechanics.

Trying to create a fog index does not contribute to the answer of what science considers the timeless dimension of the Quantum world.

 

[DavidFirth]

Please respond coherently with references.

Please respond with proof. Otherwise, you're just guessing.

 

[shunyadragon]

Please respond with proof. Otherwise, you're just guessing.

There is no such thing as proof in science. I will post research articles from academic journals for discussion and feedback.

You may provide relevant sources to support your view whatever it is,

 

[DavidFirth]

There is no such thing as proof in science. I will post research articles from academic journals for discussion and feedback.

You may provide relevant sources to support your view whatever it is,

Fair enough.