Time & Eternity

[Nakosis]

Just a reference to someone with a scientific view.

However, it's not the end of the world, but rather the beginning of a new one. We're living through a profound shift in worldview, from the belief that time and space are entities in the universe to one in which they belong to the living. Only for a moment, while we sort out the reality of time and space not existing, will it feel like madness.

Does Time Really Exist?

 

[Repox]

God is eternal, having no beginning and no ending. Time began with God's first creation. There is heavenly time measured by birth order of Angels, which is spiritual time. For humans, time began with the beginning of the universe. Science can measure time by tracking rates of entropy for matter and energy. Humans have clocks to measure rates of entropy. For heaven, the first angel could have been several billion years of earth time, but it is unlikely there is equivalency. This is my fun exercise for the day. Time can only be related to human references because we know of no time standards in heaven.

 

[Iti oj]

There is time and there is a concept of time. The two should not be confused.



Time exists in physics. Question for physicists is: how can something exist, without being supported by a particle.

By Being a place that s particle resides or as a measurement of particle

 

[Thief]

There is some talk in physics that time doesn't actually exist.
If this is the case then how do we measure the beginning of our own existence?
No time, no eternity... what then?

time does not exist....correct
it is a cognitive device of measure
created by Man to serve Man
it is not a substance or force

 

[Thief]

movement is real enough
we see it and participate

slip from your carcass.....and THEN what?

 

[David T]

What is chronos what is kairos.

 

[Milton Platt]

Are they real?

They are the only options at this time, are they not?

 

[allfoak]

What is chronos what is kairos.

please elaborate.
Why are these words important?

 

[allfoak]

They are the only options at this time, are they not?

I am trying to understand how they can both exist.
How can time exist within eternity?
Time can't be eternity since time implies a beginning and an end.
If eternity exists and time exists, then time must fit into eternity somehow.

 

[David T]

please elaborate.
Why are these words important?

In the ancient world they had two distinct not separate, frameworks for time. We had become so virtualized in European culture by chronos, which is defined as man's time, that by the 20th century we were shocked that chronos is illusionary at best. What we don't have is kairos. Kairos was defined as God's time. But for them the separatable God and nature reductionism that accedmically and experientially. developed was not as entrenched psychologically.so when you say "some physicists say time doesnt exist" probably a better and clearer way to say that which physicists do not articulate is that indeed chronos exists but it's subjective, to kairos or gods time which is objective. There are any number of examples in nature that do not have anything to do with Chronos at all but factually they are kairos. I won't mention any because that's not a something I need to discover nor explain but is self evident. Kairos properly understood moves the point of objectivity from the ivory tower cranium chronos into the landscape or kairos.
This makes chronos dependent upon and subject to the objective kairos.i threw God into the mix just to see if I get a chronos reductive understanding of God back, or a non reductive kairos understanding back. Interesting that the primative stupid superstitiously backwards ancient world, in fact literally had two frameworks for time and us modern super smart educated moderns continues to only have a single framework for time let along any developed idea of two frameworks as the ancients did. There is zero development and barely any awareness that time might exist as I have laid it out.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

Are they real?

Hard to know what 'real' is. But if we ask does time exist?, then the answer is no! Time appears to be a sequence of moments, separated into past, present, and future. Present is infinitesimally small (see continuous variable). The past no longer exists, the future never has existed.


Given;
Time = Past + Present + Future

Past, no longer exists = 0
Present, infinitesimally small = 0
Future, never has existed = 0

Therefore;
Time = 0 + 0 + 0

 

[viole]

Are they real?

Time is not.

Ciao

- viole

 

[miodrag]

Just a reference to someone with a scientific view.

Many would object that psychology is a science.

 

[miodrag]

Time began with God's first creation.

Time is determined by events. If there is a sequence of events, involving cause and effect, that means time. If there were events in the spiritual world, before God's creation of the material world, then time exist in a spiritual world, too, and it always did.

For humans, time began with the beginning of the universe..

For you, time began with your birth. That does not mean time never existed before.

 

[miodrag]

I am trying to understand how they can both exist.
How can time exist within eternity?

Time means a succession of cause and effect. If there are events, then there is time. Eternity means there were events always.

Time can't be eternity since time implies a beginning and an end.

How so?
Colloquial framework , "since the beginning of time" does not mean it is a logically valid expression.

 

[Repox]

Time is determined by events. If there is a sequence of events, involving cause and effect, that means time. If there were events in the spiritual world, before God's creation of the material world, then time exist in a spiritual world, too, and it always did.



For you, time began with your birth. That does not mean time never existed before.

I don't believe time in the universe is the same as time in heaven. In heaven, there are no elements (matter and energy), therefore, measurement of time must be different. We have time in the universe based on continual change vis-à-vis laws of entropy. We cannot apply those same standards to the spiritual world, spirits in heaven are not material. The ultimate time standard must be order of creation. Because creatures are not eternal, we can apply a time standard. In heaven, there has been sequencing of events passed on creation. It is a mistake to assume creatures are eternal, they all had beginnings. Only God is eternal.

 

[Nakosis]

Many would object that psychology is a science.

Robert Lanza, M.D. is currently Head of Astellas Global Regenerative Medicine, and is Chief Scientific Officer of the Astellas Institute for Regenerative Medicine and Adjunct Professor at Wake Forest University School of Medicine. His current research focuses on stem cells and regenerative medicine and their potential to provide therapies for some of the world's most deadly and debilitating conditions.

http://www.robertlanza.com/

 

[miodrag]

I don't believe time in the universe is the same as time in heaven. In heaven, there are no elements (matter and energy), therefore, measurement of time must be different

Time does not depend on matter and energy. Event can be a solely spiritual phenomena. So is the time. Reality of a substance is not determined by it being measurable. In other words, ontology does not rely on measurement.

 

[miodrag]

http://www.robertlanza.com/

I said psychology. I never said that he was not a scientist. He might as well be a painter, with a gallery somewhere on a Web. Him having an opinion on painting does not make painting a science, just as him having opinion about psychology does not make psychology a science.

 

[Repox]

Time does not depend on matter and energy. Event can be a solely spiritual phenomena. So is the time. Reality of a substance is not determined by it being measurable. In other words, ontology does not rely on measurement.

There is no evidence of a "solely spiritual phenomena," so we can't have a rational discussion about such a hypothetical. As for time in the material world, we have empirical measures with common ground or objective standards.

One cannot refute the criteria of time based on order of creation, it is based on logic. Otherwise, it would mean events have no cause. There is no evidence for events occurring without a cause.