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Tipping

Alien826

No religious beliefs
Tipping ... giving extra money to someone despite having already paid for the goods or services. (Not turning things over).

I'll start with an acknowledgement that this is a very emotional subject for many people, particularly wait-staff. No offense is intended, and I hope you will see that what I am suggesting would be better for "tipped" people in the long run.

Traditionally, tipping was an acknowledgement of service beyond the normal standard and consisted of relatively small sums of money. Now it seems to be expected, and the amount to be tipped is also laid down, how I'm not sure. According to some, bad service is not a reason to withhold or reduce a tip!

I'll list a number of things I consider to be wrong with the whole practice. I'll refer to wait-staff as an example, though of course there are many more jobs that involve tipping.

1. Technically, my relationship with a server is not that of employer. That status belongs to the restaurateur. In other words it is not my responsibility to ensure that the server is properly paid.

2.The level of tip that is "proper" is not clear. Once 10% was the level. Now it's crept up to 20 or 25%. How is this information disseminated? Good question, I don't have an answer. Should I tip on the cost of the food? Food plus tax? If delivered, food plus tax plus delivery fee?

3. Why is the amount of the tip determined by the cost of the food? Surely it takes a similar effort to serve a hamburger as to serve a steak? Or to pour a $20 wine as $100 wine?

4. This seems to have been a ploy by employers to pay as little as they can and expect the customer to make up the difference. I see why they like it, but I utterly reject their suggestion that I should play my assigned part in their little scheme. I do tip, and at the suggested level mostly, though quality of service does influence the amount I pay. I do it because I am trapped in a catch-22. If I pay I'm supporting the system, but if I don't someone gets less than they should earn.

5. One reason I hear for tipping is that it is necessary to get good service. Rubbish! When I worked as a programmer, I did a good job as a matter of pride, and knowing that if I didn't I would suffer in some way. No tips were ever offered. And my salary was determined and paid by my employer, not the recipient of the products I created.

Now, to the alternative.

It's very simple. Restaurants should pay a living wage to their employees and recoup that expense through the price of the food. If they want to present it as some kind of "service charge" I guess that's OK, I have some misgivings, but so long as the living wage comes first I'll not argue.

Before someone says it, I recognize that changing the system would be a huge task.

That's it. Comments please. Be polite, I intend to.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Tipping ... giving extra money to someone despite having already paid for the goods or services. (Not turning things over).

I'll start with an acknowledgement that this is a very emotional subject for many people, particularly wait-staff. No offense is intended, and I hope you will see that what I am suggesting would be better for "tipped" people in the long run.

Traditionally, tipping was an acknowledgement of service beyond the normal standard and consisted of relatively small sums of money. Now it seems to be expected, and the amount to be tipped is also laid down, how I'm not sure. According to some, bad service is not a reason to withhold or reduce a tip!

I'll list a number of things I consider to be wrong with the whole practice. I'll refer to wait-staff as an example, though of course there are many more jobs that involve tipping.

1. Technically, my relationship with a server is not that of employer. That status belongs to the restaurateur. In other words it is not my responsibility to ensure that the server is properly paid.

2.The level of tip that is "proper" is not clear. Once 10% was the level. Now it's crept up to 20 or 25%. How is this information disseminated? Good question, I don't have an answer. Should I tip on the cost of the food? Food plus tax? If delivered, food plus tax plus delivery fee?

3. Why is the amount of the tip determined by the cost of the food? Surely it takes a similar effort to serve a hamburger as to serve a steak? Or to pour a $20 wine as $100 wine?

4. This seems to have been a ploy by employers to pay as little as they can and expect the customer to make up the difference. I see why they like it, but I utterly reject their suggestion that I should play my assigned part in their little scheme. I do tip, and at the suggested level mostly, though quality of service does influence the amount I pay. I do it because I am trapped in a catch-22. If I pay I'm supporting the system, but if I don't someone gets less than they should earn.

5. One reason I hear for tipping is that it is necessary to get good service. Rubbish! When I worked as a programmer, I did a good job as a matter of pride, and knowing that if I didn't I would suffer in some way. No tips were ever offered. And my salary was determined and paid by my employer, not the recipient of the products I created.

Now, to the alternative.

It's very simple. Restaurants should pay a living wage to their employees and recoup that expense through the price of the food. If they want to present it as some kind of "service charge" I guess that's OK, I have some misgivings, but so long as the living wage comes first I'll not argue.

Before someone says it, I recognize that changing the system would be a huge task.

That's it. Comments please. Be polite, I intend to.
On the continent "servizio compresso" (service included) and its equivalent has been around since at least the 1970s and is now quite widespread in the UK too. However there is no sign of it displacing the tipping system. I tend to agree with you that it is a more civilised transaction all round if waiting staff are properly paid and do not have to rely on tips.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Unfortunately waiters need to be tipped in most states. In uber liberal Seattle there are restaurants where it is not necessary. The staff is well paid and they let you know it. Would a proper paying gig be better? Of course. But until one comes around it is best to educate oneself on tipping. How much is needed and why. It is part of going out to eat.
 

Alien826

No religious beliefs
Unfortunately waiters need to be tipped in most states. In uber liberal Seattle there are restaurants where it is not necessary. The staff is well paid and they let you know it. Would a proper paying gig be better? Of course. But until one comes around it is best to educate oneself on tipping. How much is needed and why. It is part of going out to eat.

I thought I covered the problems of finding out "how much is needed". Do you have some advice on how to do that? Seems to be word of mouth. Do you have a better idea?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I thought I covered the problems of finding out "how much is needed". Do you have some advice on how to do that? Seems to be word of mouth. Do you have a better idea?
Internet? I don't really know. I think that 20% is the standard for good service these days. Workers will try to push it higher, but that should be taken with a grain of salt. I would not tip anywhere near that high in Seattle. The minimum wage there is $16.50 an hour.
 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I remember being asked to give a tip for just a lettuce salad. And that was just the tip of the iceberg.
 

John53

I go leaps and bounds
Premium Member
Here's a tip from a dumb Aussie. Stop tipping! Staff will start leaving the industry and employers will have to start paying a living wage. Simple.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Tipping is becoming a thing in posh restaurants in the UK but more like 10% sometimes in the form of a service charge that goes to the business not the staff.
Many years ago all tipping was discretionary, and up to the customer if they wanted to reward good service.
Generally speaking tipping is minimal in cafes and fast food places, if at all.

Few people are not paid at least a minimum wage. It is required by law.

Some outlets do not allow tipping at all.

For me it is just another reason not to go to the USA.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Internet? I don't really know. I think that 20% is the standard for good service these days. Workers will try to push it higher, but that should be taken with a grain of salt. I would not tip anywhere near that high in Seattle. The minimum wage there is $16.50 an hour.
Ye gods! In most of continental Europe the standard is 10%, sometimes up to 15%. I would never give more than that.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Ye gods! In most of continental Europe the standard is 10%, sometimes up to 15%. I would never give more than that.
In Europe your waiters are not making the equivalent of five dollars an hour. In the US in some states wait staff can be paid less than that state's already obscenely low minimum wage.

EDIT: It is worse than I thought. Waiters can be paid as little as $2.13 an hour by restaurants:

Is a waiter or waitress exempt from minimum wage and overtime?
 

John53

I go leaps and bounds
Premium Member
In Europe your waiters are not making the equivalent of five dollars an hour. In the US in some states wait staff can be paid less than that state's already obscenely low minimum wage.

And you're making it worse by tipping.
 

John53

I go leaps and bounds
Premium Member
I disagree. One person not tipping is only harming them. Perhaps an organized boycott would help, but you might have to eat a few loogie sandwiches along the way.

Then why do anything? Don't vote, your vote doesn't make a difference. Don't compost, just you doing it won't make a difference. Don't use the toilet, do it in the street, just you won't make a difference.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Then why do anything? Don't vote, your vote doesn't make a difference. Don't compost, just you doing it won't make a difference. Don't use the toilet, do it in the street, just you won't make a difference.
I did not advocate doing nothing. I do oppose doing an action that can only harm those that one thinks that he is helping.
 
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