To all Creationist/Geocentrist/Flat earthist

[A Thousand Suns]

Sorry for the late answer , my hard disk got burnt:faint:

Scientists are not rushing into Islam, that is blatantly false. As I said, none of the scientists Muslims keep quoting actually converted to Islam -- I find that very telling. Were they by chance employed by Muslims when they were making those statements? I haven't seen them utter those statements ever since, after all.

Lol..why don't Hindu,Christians etc employee top scientists to prove their scripture .You are actually accusing these scientist without any proof just because you oppose their school of thought

Science is not for sale, so if these people were saying this stuff because they were employed at the time then they are terrible "scientists."

I am using Einsteins logic and he rightly said

“Science without religion is lame; religion without science is blind.”

Either way it doesn't matter if they gave their support for Islam: find me 1 scientist who says there is science in the Quran and I'll find you 1,000 that say there is not. Even then it wouldn't matter (it wouldn't even be in my favor) because arguments from authority are fallacious.

I think a simple search on google will do the trick ,you'll find in hundreds of scientists who support Quran, and for the rest I am not sure they have even read Quran

As for defending the use of Jinns in the Quran, it still makes ridiculous claims. I don't really have the time to wade through it to look them up but I know there is a verse about talking trees in one of the Hadiths for instance. If so, then clearly the Quran wasn't worried about people not believing it because it stated ridiculous things -- it doesn't get much more ridiculous than talking trees.

I don't know which hadis you are talking about ,quoting it here might help

I've also seen a verse where someone follows a road until they reached the "setting-place of the sun," which was setting in a spring or something. A quick google gives the verse 18:85-86

"And he followed a road; Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout..."

I am having Deja Vu all over again

18:85-86 "One (such) way he followed,Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: near it he found a people: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority), either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness."

The verse, as is obvious, is not referring to a scientific reality, but to a person's vision. In other words, the verse is not saying that the sun, at the referred place, used to set in a murky lake; on the contrary, it is informing us that Dhu al-Qarnain reached a place where it appeared to him as if the sun was setting in a murky lake. This, "non-scientific", observation has been mentioned in the referred words to imply that at that time Dhu al-Qarnain reached a place from where if one were to look westwards, he would find nothing but the murky waters of the sea/lake and thus, it would appear to him as if the sun was setting in the lake.

A quick googling also shows problem with the embryology claims, such as the clot becoming bone and then Allah putting flesh around the bone -- that would be backwards; flesh comes first then bone.

I'll let you try to explain these objections but it just doesn't look very impressive to me at all.

Again ,you think Quran is wrong because someone else told you , you didn't read Quran yourself ,it a assumption , I will repeat it again , there are no scientific errors in Quran

 

[Freaker]

No, because most of those quotes came from people who were coerced and bribed by Saudi affiliats -- including with gifts of $1,000 and lavish hotel rooms and a gift crystal watch.

You are doing Islam a disservice by quoting that stuff -- I'll assume that you didn't realize most of those quotes came from bribes and coersion. See my post in the Science vs Religion section where it came out that those scientists were put under extreme pressure to make those statements. I think I titled it "New info on "Quran Scientists""

So does that mean that the thousands of people who convert to Islam annually are bribed by Saudia Arabia , quite the contrary the budget of Christians missionary are millions of times more than Muslims , so sorry these claims of yours are not only baseless but quite hilarious and based on your limited view point

 

[A Thousand Suns]

This is exactly what we mean by taking some vague allusion and cooking it up to make it look all sciencey. If the quran said people were made out of ping pong balls, you'd say: See, the zygote is hollow and round, and the nobel quran is fulfilled by science. If it said people were made of beer, you'd point out the similarity of their composition.

It's hilarious, it makes a very bad impression, and what's really sad is that you're so befuddled by your childhood indoctrination that to you it actually looks true!

People are not made of water or clay or a combination of the two. Sorry, it's just wrong.

Religious indoctrination of children makes me sad; it impairs their thinking processes.

Quite funny not only your religious knowledge is messed up but also your scientific scientific facts

and nice way of dodging the answer by attacking the Quran instead ,seriously stop wasting our time , who are you fooling

 

[Atomist]

I feel like my thread got hijacked but it's okay... no biggy

Quite funny not only your religious knowledge is messed up but also your scientific scientific facts

and nice way of dodging the answer by attacking the Quran instead ,seriously stop wasting our time , who are you fooling

It's up to you do demontrate that that Quran is scientifically accurate... and what meaningful predictions we can see into the future of science by looking at the Quran and not after the fact "predictions"... those are meaningless... I mean it's the same reasoning that people use on Nostradamus' prophesies.

Further, it seems to me that there needs to be an account on why the countries that believe Quran to be the one true word of god are the most scientifically Illiterate and bankrupt if the Quran was so scientifically perfect.

 

[A Thousand Suns]

I feel like my thread got hijacked but it's okay... no biggy

:run:

It's up to you do demontrate that that Quran is scientifically accurate... and what meaningful predictions we can see into the future of science by looking at the Quran and not after the fact "predictions"... those are meaningless... I mean it's the same reasoning that people use on Nostradamus' prophesies

I didn't understand what you said??

Further, it seems to me that there needs to be an account on why the countries that believe Quran to be the one true word of god are the most scientifically Illiterate and bankrupt if the Quran was so scientifically perfect.

Thats another debate but short answer , Early Muslim scholars made significant advances in science, mathematics, medicine, astronomy, engineering, and many other fields. During this time, early Islamic philosophy developed and was often pivotal in scientific debates key figures were usually scientists and philosophers.

The number of important and original Arabic works written on the mathematical sciences is much larger than the combined total of Latin and Greek works on the mathematical sciences.

source wikipedia

 

[Atomist]

I didn't understand what you said??

all you've done was assert that the quran is infallible... quote passages that are vague and meaningless and interpret them such that it fits the accepted scientific model then say "AH HA QURAN IS PERFECT" then say "Scientist are flocking to Islaam" then say hundreds of scientist are muslim (a very small percentage of all the scientists).

Thats another debate but short answer , Early Muslim scholars made significant advances in science, mathematics, medicine, astronomy, engineering, and many other fields. During this time, early Islamic philosophy developed and was often pivotal in scientific debates key figures were usually scientists and philosophers.

The number of important and original Arabic works written on the mathematical sciences is much larger than the combined total of Latin and Greek works on the mathematical sciences.

Through secular means... not through study of the Quran. Like that argument would be as fallacious as if I said "Christianity is scientifically accurate because America is making a whole bunch of advances to science, math, medicine, astronomy, engineering and many other fields.

It's up to you to demonstrate why it stopping is consistent with a scientifically accurate Quran.

Ultimately your arguments aren't convincing because it's riddled with fallacies, baseless claims and outright lies.

 

[Venatoris]

Early Muslim scholars made significant advances in science, mathematics, medicine, astronomy, engineering

If this is true, I request at least one example from each of the aforementioned categories with links and testimony from unbiased scientists and historians. Oh, and these advances must be derived from the Qu'ran in some way, otherwise being Muslim is purely coincidental.

 

[A Thousand Suns]

If this is true, I request at least one example from each of the aforementioned categories with links and testimony from unbiased scientists and historians. Oh, and these advances must be derived from the Qu'ran in some way, otherwise being Muslim is purely coincidental.

i never claimed that:no:

 

[Venatoris]

i never claimed that:no:

You never claimed that you could give examples to back up your statement or you never claimed that Muslims contributed significant advances in science, mathematics, medicine, astronomy, and engineering?

 

[A Thousand Suns]

all you've done was assert that the quran is infallible... quote passages that are vague and meaningless and interpret them such that it fits the accepted scientific model then say "AH HA QURAN IS PERFECT" then say "Scientist are flocking to Islaam" then say hundreds of scientist are muslim (a very small percentage of all the scientists).


Through secular means... not through study of the Quran. Like that argument would be as fallacious as if I said "Christianity is scientifically accurate because America is making a whole bunch of advances to science, math, medicine, astronomy, engineering and many other fields.

It's up to you to demonstrate why it stopping is consistent with a scientifically accurate Quran.

Ultimately your arguments aren't convincing because it's riddled with fallacies, baseless claims and outright lies.

i wasn't giving my interpretation , but actually was quoting Quran itself , and even if we are fitting science in quran how come more than 1400 verse can be fitted exactly with all field of science 'without making a single clearcut mistake' and same with hadis

not only that also all the predictions made by Quran and Hadis have been proven right with time

for e.g

PHARAOH'S BODY

"We brought the tribe of Israel across the sea, and Pharaoh and his troops pursued them out of tyranny and enmity...........What, now! When previously you rebelled and were one of the corrupters? Today we will preserve your body so you can be a Sign for people who come after you. Surely many people are heedless of Our Signs." (Qur'an, 10:91-92)

and its true and recently Pharaoh's body was found on shore of dead sea , who could have predicted that 1400 years ago

 

[Venatoris]

i wasn't giving my interpretation , but actually was quoting Quran itself , and even if we are fitting science in quran how come more than 1400 verse can be fitted exactly with all field of science 'without making a single clearcut mistake' and same with hadis

Examples, supported by unbiased experts?

PHARAOH'S BODY

"We brought the tribe of Israel across the sea, and Pharaoh and his troops pursued them out of tyranny and enmity...........What, now! When previously you rebelled and were one of the corrupters? Today we will preserve your body so you can be a Sign for people who come after you. Surely many people are heedless of Our Signs." (Qur'an, 10:91-92)

and its true and recently Pharaoh's body was found on shore of dead sea , who could have predicted that 1400 years ago

First off, Red sea, not Dead sea.
Second, the events mentioned in Exodus would have taken place long before the Qu'ran was written so where is the prediction exactly?
And I'm further confused by what you are saying because the pharaoh died of natural causes(not in the red sea) and was preserved in the same fashion as other pharaohs.
RED SEA PHARAOH'S MUMMY UNVEILED - Body Discovered Some Years Ago Proved to be That of Menephtah. - View Article - NYTimes.com

 

[skydivephil]

Sorry for the late answer , my hard disk got burnt:faint:


Lol..why don't Hindu,Christians etc employee top scientists to prove their scripture .You are actually accusing these scientist without any proof just because you oppose their school of thought


I am using Einsteins logic and he rightly said

“Science without religion is lame; religion without science is blind.”

I think a simple search on google will do the trick ,you'll find in hundreds of scientists who support Quran, and for the rest I am not sure they have even read Quran

I don't know which hadis you are talking about ,quoting it here might help



I am having Deja Vu all over again

18:85-86 "One (such) way he followed,Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: near it he found a people: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority), either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness."

The verse, as is obvious, is not referring to a scientific reality, but to a person's vision. In other words, the verse is not saying that the sun, at the referred place, used to set in a murky lake; on the contrary, it is informing us that Dhu al-Qarnain reached a place where it appeared to him as if the sun was setting in a murky lake. This, "non-scientific", observation has been mentioned in the referred words to imply that at that time Dhu al-Qarnain reached a place from where if one were to look westwards, he would find nothing but the murky waters of the sea/lake and thus, it would appear to him as if the sun was setting in the lake.


Again ,you think Quran is wrong because someone else told you , you didn't read Quran yourself ,it a assumption , I will repeat it again , there are no scientific errors in Quran

Why dont Hindu, Christian etc scientists do the same misinterpretation of their religious texts to imply they've been scientifically proven? you obviously havent done your homework, here are some Hindu examples:

Miracles of Veda and Purana

Science in Vedas

here are some Toaist examples:
The Tao of Physics (Flamingo): Amazon.co.uk: Fritjof Capra: Books

Quantum-Physics and TAO Updated Ancient Wisdom

here are some Christian examples:

Seven Amazing Scientific Discoveries that PROVE Bible's Credibility! - Part 1

SCIENCE AND THE BIBLE

It seems many religions have the same need to bend the passages for their religious texts to make them seem scientitifc. Islam is no different.
But I repeat sceince is highly specific , religious texts are not.Ill ask the question again, if the Qur'an has a description of the big bang, wny not give us the valeu of the Hubble constant?
Einstein did say :
“Science without religion is lame; religion without science is blind.”
but his deifnition of religion was simply a wonder and awe at the cosmos. he did not mean religion in the manner of traditional Abrahamic faiths. He condenmed the belief in god you have. Now you just said you were following the logic of Einstein, so I presume you are going to give up your beliefs, when you read this:

Albert Einstein: Thoughts of a Freethinker
"I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it. "Albert Einstein
" A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty, which are only accessible to our reason in their most elementary forms-it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man. I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the type of which we are conscious in ourselves. An individual who should survive his physical death is also beyond my comprehension, nor do I wish it otherwise; such notions are for the fears or absurd egoism of feeble souls."Albert Einstein

“It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously."
Albert Einstein

 

[A Thousand Suns]

Examples, supported by unbiased experts?
First off, Red sea, not Dead sea.
Second, the events mentioned in Exodus would have taken place long before the Qu'ran was written so where is the prediction exactly?
And I'm further confused by what you are saying because the pharaoh died of natural causes(not in the red sea) and was preserved in the same fashion as other pharaohs.
RED SEA PHARAOH'S MUMMY UNVEILED - Body Discovered Some Years Ago Proved to be That of Menephtah. - View Article - NYTimes.com

Actually red sea is also called the dead sea

"Second, the events mentioned in Exodus would have taken place long before the Qu'ran was written so where is the prediction exactly? "

can you quote that for me i think i might have missed it while reading the bibble

 

[McBell]

there are no scientific errors in Quran

I agree.
But only because there is no science in the koran.

 

[nameless]

an example for science in quran.....

formation of rain according to quran.

"It is Allah Who sends the Winds, and they raise the Clouds: then does He spread them in the sky as He wills, and break them into fragments, until you see rain-drops issue from the midst thereof: then when He has made them reach such of his servants as He wills behold, they do rejoice"

 

[tumbleweed41]

Actually red sea is also called the dead sea

RED SEA

(Salt water inlet from the Indian Ocean)


DEAD SEA

(Landlocked Lake fed by the Jordan River)

 

[McBell]

an example for science in quran.....

formation of rain according to quran.

"It is Allah Who sends the Winds, and they raise the Clouds: then does He spread them in the sky as He wills, and break them into fragments, until you see rain-drops issue from the midst thereof: then when He has made them reach such of his servants as He wills behold, they do rejoice"

You think that is an example of "science"?
Perhaps the problem is that you do not know what science actually is?

 

[A Thousand Suns]

RED SEA

(Salt water inlet from the Indian Ocean)


DEAD SEA

(Landlocked Lake fed by the Jordan River)

maybe iam wrong i will check that

 

[A Thousand Suns]

an example for science in quran.....

formation of rain according to quran.

"It is Allah Who sends the Winds, and they raise the Clouds: then does He spread them in the sky as He wills, and break them into fragments, until you see rain-drops issue from the midst thereof: then when He has made them reach such of his servants as He wills behold, they do rejoice"

Quran on Formation of Clouds and Rain

 

[McBell]

maybe iam wrong i will check that

"maybe" your wrong?

Wow.
I mean....
Just...

Wow.