To anyone - Why do people espouse religion?

[s3v3n]

Here's an idea, find some heavily religious people with a full brain (In real life) (and yes they do exist, I've met a few) and ask them. I bet most of the answers on here will be from foaming at the mouth atheists in agreement or dolts like Thief.

Would an answer from someone who is neither be acceptable? At least an observation. I am neither foaming nor atheist, nor am I a theist and like to think I'm not a dolt. At least not most of the time...here goes either way,

I think many people need to fill something they lack as a person, some problems are just too big, some people break, I'm sure you've known someone sometime that just had a load that crushed them and some of them never come back, some grab at whatever rope they can find because they think it may save them, some realize they weren't drowning, others keep swallowing water a think the rope is saving them.

We all lack something, somewhere there is a hole that will never be filled, i think it to be part of what it is to be a human being. We know who we are from the scars we bear, so we find a person, or a god, or a drug, or an addiction, and if it doesn't kill us we learn something on the other side. If we're lucky and smart we find what we need on our own, many people are smart, very very few are lucky.

S3V3N

 

[Heneni]

What is it about religion that is so appealing to some people?

Religion is not appealing to me at all. Jesus is though. He is the most brilliant being ever to have graced this planet with his presence. His principles and person is glorious and liberating. He is all together lovely. That's his appeal.

I grew up in a religious home.....and I hated it. In fact I think there should be an exorcism for religious spirits..hehehehe....

Heneni

 

[MSizer]

Religion is not appealing to me at all. Jesus is though. He is the most brilliant being ever to have graced this planet with his presence. His principles and person is glorious and liberating. He is all together lovely. That's his appeal.

I grew up in a religious home.....and I hated it. In fact I think there should be an exorcism for religious spirits..hehehehe....

Heneni

See I find that curious. Thanks for the response. I grew up in a religious household and disliked it too. But, I found that once I started reading Hume, Nietzsche, Kant, Sartre, Kiergeggard and the like, that Jesus seemed to me to be a decent starting point for inspirations, but that there is so much more wisdom from so many other other minds who have in fact taken philosophy so much deeper than he did. I don't mean to say that for the sake of being rude, it's just my experience.

 

[PureX]

The National Longitudinal surveys by the U.S. Labor board (2008):

"on average, Atheists scored 1.95 IQ points higher than Agnostics, 3.82 points higher than Liberal persuasions, and 5.89 IQ points higher than Dogmatic persuasion"

Helmuth Nyborg & Richard Lynn, in "The Scientific Study of Intelligence" (using UN data from 137 countries) published that atheists average 6 IQ points higher than theists.

Oh boy am I gonna win some enemies with this post. 8^(

Intelligence is not an indication of wisdom.

 

[PureX]

There are a lot of good reasons that people turn to religion. One is that a good psychologist costs far more than the average person can afford, and tends to offer less than a person needs. A pastor and a church can often offer similar help without the outrageous cost. They can offer good and useful advice, and friendship in times of emotional upheaval and difficulty. They can offer marriage, family, and life counseling both before and after the wedding. They can offer companionship to the old and infirm. They visit people when they're in the hospital. The church can replace family for those who have none, or whose real family is so dysfunctional as to be useless.

Churches offer bible studies and various support groups to help people deal with all kinds of losses (loss of a child, loss of a spouse, or a parent). And to help people deal with the fears and questions they have about life in general. Most importantly they offer people a community in a culture that's designed to divide us against each other. They offer mutual support in a culture that is designed to encourage an "every man for himself" attitude. And they offer friendship in a culture that alienates and isolates people.

And yes, they do offer comfort to those who are hurting and afraid.

 

[Heneni]

See I find that curious. Thanks for the response. I grew up in a religious household and disliked it too. But, I found that once I started reading Hume, Nietzsche, Kant, Sartre, Kiergeggard and the like, that Jesus seemed to me to be a decent starting point for inspirations, but that there is so much more wisdom from so many other other minds who have in fact taken philosophy so much deeper than he did. I don't mean to say that for the sake of being rude, it's just my experience.

I find philosophy very interesting myself. I think the difference between other philosphers and Jesus, i.t.o its appeal, (personally speaking) is that Jesus spoke about the philosophy of gods, whereas some other philosophies centres around mankind. Sometimes even portraying them as gods. I find his philosophies go beyond human existance.

Philosophy is very intriguing because very often the ideas expressed therein resonates with us in ways we find hard to express ourselves. We indentify most with those philosophers who can strike a chord with us.

In that sense Jesus strikes a chord with me, because as a spiritual being having a human experience im intrigued by the philosophy of celestial beings, which I believe I am as well, though not yet perfected like Jesus was.

Jesus was the philosopher of Gods. To have the inside scoop on how gods reason and behave is quite something for me.

I dont fancy religion at all, like yourself. Somehow it always ends up short changing God, or misrepresenting Him. I find the bible a very interesting book of philosophy as well. It clearly shows that God does not reason or think like mankind at all. The book does not find report with many, because therein lies the very strange and sometimes desturbing reasonings of God. I don't blame people for finding it odd at times, and hard to comprehend. But I read it in one of two ways...1) To determine the character of God 2) To understand how he reasons and thinks and behaves and why He does so.

When read without prejudice it gives a startling account of a God that is by no short measure complicated and multidimensional. I propose that if God was any less interesting we (well I) would be bored with Him soon enough.

I'm sure you have read a book before and found it so captivating that you read it again and again. And the bible has the same effect on me. I can find new gems in it everytime I return to it. I try to when I read the book, not to be offended by the philosophy of the God in the bible, but rather a means to understand Him. Something that perhaps will take me more than one lifetime to accomplish, but none the less, the God of the bible and especially jesus is a fascinating character. A God who became man and spoke of things not of this world. An inside scoop of a world not yet discovered and unveiled. A world, that is coming.

But I have to agree with you in a sense, that other philosophical books do seem to go into rather more detail than Jesus did. It goes to greater lengths to explain and expand. This is where Jesus differed greatly. A few words from Him could have such huge and intriquite and deep meaning locked up in a few words, that for me it has taken many months if not years to understand its meaning fully. Usually the light bulb moment comes when I have lived through something and I look back at what He said and think....OHHH that is what it means!

By and by did you grow up in a catholic environment?

Heneni

 

[LuisDantas]

There is a non-linear correlation between religiosity and social patholgoy (murder, rape, theft...).

In the US, the prison populations are per capita much more christian than the general public.

I was raised in a catholic family and from the time I was a kid I thought it was ridiculous. What is it about religion that is so appealing to some people?

For MANY people, it is the sense of security that comes with ready-made answers.

That is why so many of them think belief in God is more significant than religion itself. And also why so many claim that religion ought not to be contested.

A shame, really.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

It seems a lot of religion -- but certainly not all -- is escapism. Escapism from suffering. Usually, when we encounter suffering, we try to escape from it. And religions often -- but not always -- help us to do that by ascribing various meanings to suffering. Those meanings, however, are escapes.

That could one way of looking at it. Would this be a negative thing in your view?

I suppose we tend to view escaping as a negative thing, but I think there are times when it's necessary, especially when dealing with existential issues. We all have to do the best we can with what we've got.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

For MANY people, it is the sense of security that comes with ready-made answers.

What would not be a ready-made answer that would instill this kind of security?

 

[Gentoo]

OK, I'm appealing to the harsh facts here, and neglecting some of the nicer ones, so please don't accuse me of bashing religion by being "one-sided" about it. I know that religion has contributed to formalizing codes of behaviour, missionary work (mind you much of it was evil, but some of course is good) and so on. But, here's what interests me at the moment:

There is a known inversly non-linear correlation between the IQ of children and the religiosity of their parents (the more religious you are, the less smart your kid will likely be).

There is a non-linear correlation between religiosity and social patholgoy (murder, rape, theft...).

That sounds akin to 'all criminals like ice cream, therefore ice cream causes people to commit crimes'.

I was raised in a catholic family and from the time I was a kid I thought it was ridiculous. What is it about religion that is so appealing to some people?

I was raised Catholic too.. Anyway, religion/spirituality/whatever you want to call it appeals to me because it helps give me the sense that there's more than what we currently know to be out there. There was a very brief time when I was essentially an atheist, and I felt very empty and, well... alone. That was my experience, tear it apart if you will but it is my truth..

 

[PureX]

What is it about religion that is so appealing to some people?

I think you're missing the boat. It's not the religion as much as it's the community of 'believers' that is attractive to people. You focus on the religion because that's so easy for you to pick apart intellectually. But you ignore the glue that keeps those people together ... fellowship. Most of the members of any given church don't fully even understand their own church's doctrines. Nor do most of them care. They are members because they have found a community that has accepted them, and who they know will help them if they need it, and who will accept their help in turn. They're really only interested in the doctrine to the degree that it helps keep the community alive. Most 'believers' care far less about the details of their religion than you do.

 

[cardero]

PureX writes: They are members because they have found a community that has accepted them, and who they know will help them if they need it, and who will accept their help in turn.

In some cases (or religions) this “fellowship” is an illusion. The moment that one questions or stops believing, is the moment that one becomes suspect or unaccepted. I have been involved with many religions that would first meet me with open arms but once their beliefs were encroached or endangered, these same members who welcomed someone openly would rather have nothing to do with them.

PureX writes: But you ignore the glue that keeps those people together ... fellowship.

If one looks at the ingredients used in religious adhesives, one will notice that they contain a great deal of hope, faith and the unrequited death remains of past leaders, innocents and followers. May I suggest a stronger epoxy, one that goes beyond any beliefs that one could wonder, encourage or be impassioned about; this glue is called humanity.

 

[TheKnight]

But, here's what interests me at the moment:

There is a known inversly non-linear correlation between the IQ of children and the religiosity of their parents (the more religious you are, the less smart your kid will likely be).

I am intensely religious and both my parents are as well. My dad is a fundamentalist minister and my mother is a less-than fundamental Christian. I, as you may or may not know, believe in Hasidic Orthodox Judaism (which tends to be very fundamentalist in nature).

That being said, My dad has an IQ of 189, I have an IQ of 140, and I do not know my mother's IQ.

I highly highly doubt that religiosity has anything to do with your IQ. The level of religious devotion has nothing to do with intelligence so far as what ones believes religiously.

There is a non-linear correlation between religiosity and social patholgoy (murder, rape, theft...).


In the US, the prison populations are per capita much more christian than the general public.

There is a very big problem with statistics. A lot of statistics agencies (when it comes to religion) will base their results off of the mere claim of religiosity. This is problematic for a number reasons. For one, claiming to believe in a religion does not make one a religious person. A person can think they are following a particular religion because they base their practice on misconceptions and popular myth. A person can also lie about their religion.

This fact alone can severely influence the accuracy of results when it comes to statistics and religion.

Another problem with your "fact" about prison populations is that it doesn't necessarily mean anything. The study cannot include facts about people who did not get caught for crimes they committed. It probably doesn't include facts about people who were wrongly convicted (something that happens a LOT in our justice system).

My experience has taught me that people who commit crimes come from all walks of life and religious beliefs.

As an aspiring linguist, I have learned that a vast majority of crimes, confusion, contention, despair, and misunderstanding come from communication error. I doubt that religiosity has much to do with how people behave (most religions teach generally humanistic principles). If anything, I'd say the majority of problems (whether related to religion or not) are the result of miscommunication.

I was raised in a catholic family and from the time I was a kid I thought it was ridiculous. What is it about religion that is so appealing to some people?

I cannot speak for everyone, but for me religion allows for a sense of purpose that I find reasonable. It provides a structured methodology for the achievement of goals that I agree with.

My particular religion, Judaism, is primarily concerned with making this world a better place. That, so I believe, is the most important goal a person can aspire to. Judaism also provides (what I consider to be) a wise methodology for the achievement of that goal.

Is it possible that I could believe in the practical humanistic parts of Judaism without belief in a God or any of the other fantastical ideas that are found within Judaism? Sure. But that would make life dull and un-interesting. Ultimately, it will not hurt anyone if I do believe in those things.

 

[Mr. Hair]

There is a known inversly non-linear correlation between the IQ of children and the religiosity of their parents (the more religious you are, the less smart your kid will likely be).

There is a non-linear correlation between religiosity and social patholgoy (murder, rape, theft...).

In the US, the prison populations are per capita much more christian than the general public.

Y'know, I'm a little surprised that no one has directly mentioned the old scientific adage that correlation does not infer causation. And it doesn't. I read recently of a study that showed a correlation between church attendance and a longer life expectancy, but that doesn't mean that being religious makes you live to a ripe old age. It could just as easily be that being independently active when you're elderly tends to make you live longer, as compared to those who remain housebound, and that how you actually spend that active time doesn't matter a hill of beans.

There's a direct inverse correlation between the amount of pirates in the world and the amount of C02 in the atmosphere. Does this mean that we should all wear eye-patches and fake parrots on our shoulders? (Well, yes, yes we should. But it won't make a dang bit of difference to global warming)

Moving on to your two studies; to put it briefly, there are any number of potential variables that could be influencing or predisposing the results other than that of religion. For example, standardised IQ tests tend to unfairly disadvantage individuals from working class backgrounds and immigrants, as compared to individuals from wealthier backgrounds and native-speaking individuals respectively. (One reason for this is that IQ tests sometimes contain Western cultural biases and assumed modes of thinking, another is the frequent use of technical and complex vocabulary) When you take into account that both of these former groups tend to have higher religious affiliation than the latter... Well, its not exactly a given yet that either study proves anything about religion.

I was raised in a catholic family and from the time I was a kid I thought it was ridiculous. What is it about religion that is so appealing to some people?

Personally, I've found that religion resonates with the sense of numinosity that I often feel, and has so far given me a reliable means of encountering and expressing it. Your mileage may vary, and all that stuff.

 

[Bismillah]

It seems a lot of religion -- but certainly not all -- is escapism. Escapism from suffering. Usually, when we encounter suffering, we try to escape from it. And religions often -- but not always -- help us to do that by ascribing various meanings to suffering. Those meanings, however, are escapes.

Yet many religions also punish those who wrong, as opposed to Atheist believing that there will be no repercussions after death for a man who wrongs himself or others. How would the concept of eternal suffering and atonement for every sin be an escape?

 

[Sunstone]

"on average, Atheists scored 1.95 IQ points higher than Agnostics, 3.82 points higher than Liberal persuasions, and 5.89 IQ points higher than Dogmatic persuasion"

Good. I need all the extra IQ points I can get to make up for my thick native stupidity. :yes:

 

[zenzero]

Friend MSizer,

What is it about religion that is so appealing to some people?

Karl Marx stated that *Religion is the opium of the [some] people* . Am sure you know how opium works.

Love & rgds