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To Be or Not To Be: your gender (Vivek R.)

stvdv

stvdv

Veteran Member
Vivek Ramaswamy on Gender dysphoria:
1) It's a mental health condition (esp. in kids)
2) There are only 2 genders

Because these 2 claims contradict:
* Sex you're attracted to is hardwired at birth, a core premise of the gay rights movement.
* Your own biological sex is totally fluid over your life

What do you think?

I am curious how other people think about this.

Vivek Ramaswamy on 2 genders (< 60sec):
 
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HonestJoe

HonestJoe

Well-Known Member
Gender dysphoria is certainly a psychological condition, but, like so many others, not one that necessarily can or need be cured.
You can certainly say there are only two genders but that doesn't mean there are only two types of people in the context of gender. We all experience and act upon our gender identity differently (even if it nominally the same one).

I think it's simplistic (if not a strawman) to assert that the entire gay rights movement claim that sexual orientation is hardwired at birth. Sexual attraction is complex and multi-faceted, influenced by genetics, upbringing, environment and circumstance. I mean, even limited to the context of exclusive heterosexuality, the people we're attracted to and how we act on those attractions can and will shift and change significantly.

The key point is that none of us can choose who were attracted to (or not), be that based on broad gender or any other factors. I'm still attracted to the woman I dated back when we were much younger, but since she is now happily married to another good friend of mine, I don't act on my attraction.

I don't think anyone claims that biological sex is fluid at all - that's why some transgender people seek surgical treatment after all. I suspect the point he is missing (or intentionally misrepresenting) is that biological sex is far from the be-all and end-all of defining who each of us are, even just within the context of sex and gender. There can only be two sexes and two genders without there only being two kinds of people.
 
Guitar's Cry

Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
stvdv said:
Vivek Ramaswamy on Gender dysphoria:
1) It's a mental health condition (esp. in kids)
2) There are only 2 genders

Because these 2 claims contradict:
* Sex you're attracted to is hardwired at birth, a core premise of the gay rights movement.
* Your own biological sex is totally fluid over your life

What do you think?

I am curious how other people think about this.

Vivek Ramaswamy on 2 genders (< 60sec):
Click to expand...

I think the distinction between "biological sex" and "gender" here is made linguistically, but not explored.
 
sun rise

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
To me, "gender dysphoria" is explained by reincarnation. Suppose someone is female for quite a few lives and this time is born male. To me it's quite natural that the person would not really feel male having had quite a few female lives before this one. How someone decides to handle this is to me that person's choice and no one else's choice.

Sometimes this can be noted by someone else. I met someone who is sexually male who felt very feminine to me. Sure enough after a few years the person recognized this consciously. He has kept his male name but wears clothing that is typically feminine. As far as I'm concerned that's 100% fine with me.
 
stvdv

stvdv

Veteran Member
sun rise said:
To me, "gender dysphoria" is explained by reincarnation. Suppose someone is female for quite a few lives and this time is born male. To me it's quite natural that the person would not really feel male having had quite a few female lives before this one. How someone decides to handle this is to me that person's choice and no one else's choice.

Sometimes this can be noted by someone else. I met someone who is sexually male who felt very feminine to me. Sure enough after a few years the person recognized this consciously. He has kept his male name but wears clothing that is typically feminine.
Click to expand...
sun rise said:
As far as I'm concerned that's 100% fine with me.
Click to expand...
#MeToo

This person expresses it beautifully in 15 sec:
 
F

F1fan

Veteran Member
stvdv said:
Vivek Ramaswamy on Gender dysphoria:
1) It's a mental health condition (esp. in kids)
2) There are only 2 genders

Because these 2 claims contradict:
* Sex you're attracted to is hardwired at birth, a core premise of the gay rights movement.
* Your own biological sex is totally fluid over your life

What do you think?

I am curious how other people think about this.

Vivek Ramaswamy on 2 genders (< 60sec):
Click to expand...
What do I think? I think Vivek has no expertise on this matter and he's irrelevant, but he's too arrogant to know better than to keep his mouth shut. Right wingers love this guy, and this only feeds his ego and stupid remarks.

I suggest leaving the issue up to social scientists, and we defer to their expert judgment.
 
stvdv

stvdv

Veteran Member
F1fan said:
What do I think? I think Vivek has no expertise on this matter and he's irrelevant, but he's too arrogant to know better than to keep his mouth shut. Right wingers love this guy, and this only feeds his ego and stupid remarks.

I suggest leaving the issue up to social scientists, and we defer to their expert judgment.
Click to expand...
What do I think?

It's a very delicate issue, how and what others, especially children feel. Even so called experts can easily mess things up

I read about a teenager who felt uncomfortable with its sex, because of bullying, and told the parents. Parents took their kid to a so called expert, who straight away started hormonal therapy, which the teenager soon regretted.

The so called experts made a huge mistake

So the lesson here is: be very careful about pumping children full of hormones
 
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F

F1fan

Veteran Member
stvdv said:
What do I think?

It's a very delicate issue, how and what others, especially children feel. Even so called experts can easily mess things up

I read about a teenager who felt uncomfortable with her sex, because of bullying, and told the parents. Parents took their kid to so called experts, who straight away started hormonal therapy, which the teenager soon regretted.

The so called experts made a huge mistake

So the lesson here is: be very careful about pumping children full of hormones
Click to expand...
I'm not aware of the case you cite, and perhaps it's real. I doubt it is a common practice for ethical reasons. Let's note that conservatives advocate for parent rights, and if parents want certain treatments, and are legal in the state, the kids will get the treatment. Are parents smart just because they are parents? Hell no. A doctor can't give these treatments without parental approval. So, it's between parents and experts, and none of us need to poke our noses in their business.

Just like other investigations of nature the social sciences are working to understand the human mind and its many diverse functions. I'm a bit skeptical of some of the gender issues, especially with social media being a wild west of insanity and bad information and influences. But I lack any depth of knowledge about gender issues. I can't make any judgment one way or another.
 
sun rise

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
F1fan said:
I'm not aware of the case you cite, and perhaps it's real. I doubt it is a common practice for ethical reasons. Let's note that conservatives advocate for parent rights, and if parents want certain treatments, and are legal in the state, the kids will get the treatment. Are parents smart just because they are parents? Hell no. A doctor can't give these treatments without parental approval. So, it's between parents and experts, and none of us need to poke our noses in their business.

Just like other investigations of nature the social sciences are working to understand the human mind and its many diverse functions. I'm a bit skeptical of some of the gender issues, especially with social media being a wild west of insanity and bad information and influences. But I lack any depth of knowledge about gender issues. I can't make any judgment one way or another.
Click to expand...
I'm not aware of any cases either. The Mayo Clinic web page is helpful to understand the process. I'll note that there are exceptions but we should not focus on the rare exceptions when considering policy but the rule.

Treatment can help people who have gender dysphoria explore their gender identity and find the gender role that feels comfortable for them, easing distress. However, treatment should be individualized. What might help one person might not help another.​
​
Treatment options might include changes in gender expression and role, hormone therapy, surgery, and behavioral therapy.​
...​
The World Professional Association for Transgender Health provides the following criteria for hormonal and surgical treatment of gender dysphoria:​
  • Persistent, well-documented gender dysphoria.
  • Capacity to make a fully informed decision and consent to treatment.
  • Legal age in a person's country or, if younger, following the standard of care for children and adolescents.
  • If significant medical or mental concerns are present, they must be reasonably well controlled.
​
 
stvdv

stvdv

Veteran Member
IMO:
{
1) There is a lot of divorce in US families
Divorce -> psychological stress for kids

2) There is a lot of bullying in US school
Bullying -> psychological stress in kids

3) Many parents have 1 or 2 jobs in US
Adding to psychological stress in kids

4) There is shooting in US schools
There is lots of violence in US
Adding to psychological stress in kids

5) Hollywood brainwashes kids' minds with lots of 'craziness', and video games add to that
All adding to psychological stress in kids

6) etc.

In short: Common sense tells me that above psychological stress probably is the major cause of gender dysphoria
In which case surgery and hormone therapy are not smart, if you want to help the kids

I think the help is not free in the US, and probably costly, adding to more stress. It seems to be another hype to earn big money for some people (a new milk cow so to speak).
Again, if help was given free to these kids then I would trust the experts much more to do it for genuinely helping these kids

Many kids in US are completely confused, don't know who they are, what their goal in life is. Improve safe environment for kids growing up would sove most of the gender dysphoria IMO, given the above facts of family instability

Some of the gender stuff sounds just too silly.
In this context I add below 55 sec clip
}
I love Piers Morgen in this clip, making some good points, and making a black woman burst out laughing with his "why can't I identify as a black lesbian?"
 
Viker

Viker

Your beloved eccentric Auntie Cristal
stvdv said:
Vivek Ramaswamy on Gender dysphoria:
1) It's a mental health condition (esp. in kids)
2) There are only 2 genders

Because these 2 claims contradict:
* Sex you're attracted to is hardwired at birth, a core premise of the gay rights movement.
* Your own biological sex is totally fluid over your life

What do you think?

I am curious how other people think about this.

Vivek Ramaswamy on 2 genders (< 60sec):
Click to expand...
Too bad he's not a Christian. He's going to find out soon that many agree with him but don't think he matters. I don't feel bad for him. I do feel bad for the tens of thousands of Hindu Americans that are about to wake up and learn what kind of America they moved to.

Anyways. His opinion doesn't matter to me. He's a fool who doesn't know what he's talking about nor knows where he is.
 
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