As a Christian, do you believe that if a person never went through baptism by water, if he/she could still be born again by the Holy Spirit? I believe that people can go through baptisms as babies, etc and not live their lives for Christ at all. I believe it takes an acceptance of Christ as one's savior (baptism by the Spirit) in order to be born again. Do you feel I'm wrong in thinking this?
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To Christians -- Baptism by water, or baptism by the Holy Spirit?
- Thread starter Deidre
- Start date
Spiderman
Veteran Member
All The Graces that baptism of water can give, almighty God can grant all of them.
God doesn't need a human being to perform the grace of baptism with water. God can give all the Graces of baptism to an unborn baby in the womb that dies of a miscarriage.
But that doesn't mean you shouldn't get baptized or that it's not important to receive the sacrament from a person and water.
God always likes certain rituals both in the Old and New Testament. That doesn't mean they are the be-all end-all.
God doesn't need a human being to perform the grace of baptism with water. God can give all the Graces of baptism to an unborn baby in the womb that dies of a miscarriage.
But that doesn't mean you shouldn't get baptized or that it's not important to receive the sacrament from a person and water.
God always likes certain rituals both in the Old and New Testament. That doesn't mean they are the be-all end-all.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
I'm hearing confessions in my pm confession booth.I like your explanations to this, Pope. Agree on all fronts.
Also let me know if you need a catechism lesson my child.
I'm hearing confessions in my pm confession booth.
Also let me know if you need a catechism lesson my child.
lol
Thana
Lady
Baptism by water is nothing more than symbolism, that's what I believe. So no I don't think you're wrong.
Oh, I like this explanation...and many of your other ones, too by the way. I like your interpretations, and now that I've returned to Christianity, I nod in agreement a lot upon reading your posts. lol
InChrist
Free4ever
I believe you are correct. I was baptized as an infant in the Catholic Church, yet I never knew Jesus Christ in any kind of real, personal way as Savior. I was definitely not born again. It wasn't until years later when I understood my need of Christ and trusted Him alone for salvation that I was born again by the Holy Spirit and that moment and experience was life changing. I was baptized a couple of months later to publically identify with Christ and declare my faith. I really appreciate the symbolism of being immersed in the water as representing dying to self and being buried, then rising up to new life in Christ, but I see this as a picture of the event which already took place in the life of one was born again when their faith was placed in Christ.
Thanda
Well-Known Member
My understanding is that both baptism by water and by the spirit are necessary for salvation. "Except a man be born of water and of the spirit he can not enter into the kingdom of God" John 3:5.
I think the confusion comes in when baptism takes place when someone has not yet committed to God. Throughout the New Testament when people were baptised it was after they had accepted Christ as their Lord and Saviour. And thus baptism became a conscious and important symbol and act of faith. An act of faith in which the Christian committed their life to God and in turn received the promise of the Holy Spirit.
Of course if someone is baptized as a baby then the baptism will tend to feel meaningless to them but I think the original intention was for baptism to be a conscious act by someone who had already accepted Christ.
I think the confusion comes in when baptism takes place when someone has not yet committed to God. Throughout the New Testament when people were baptised it was after they had accepted Christ as their Lord and Saviour. And thus baptism became a conscious and important symbol and act of faith. An act of faith in which the Christian committed their life to God and in turn received the promise of the Holy Spirit.
Of course if someone is baptized as a baby then the baptism will tend to feel meaningless to them but I think the original intention was for baptism to be a conscious act by someone who had already accepted Christ.
Ah, this is very helpful!! Yes, being baptized as a baby as I was...I grew up in a faith that meant something to me, but not nearly as much as when I left it, and returned to it, last year. Being born again didn't happen until then. My question is, should people who were baptized as babies...be immersed again, as adults, once they have willingly accepted Christ into their hearts?
Thanda
Well-Known Member
I would say yes, you should be baptized again after you have accepted Christ.
Hi Deidre, Do you know what baptism symbolizes? Do you know what being submerged under the water and coming back up means? It isn't for the washing away of sins because Jesus was baptized and he was sinless. Why did Jesus undergo baptism? He is the model for us to follow, so understanding why he presented himself to John at the Jordan River will answer your question.
As a guy who was baptized as a baby (and who feels quite often like a filthy casual of a Christian lol), I would say no, they shouldn't be baptized again. Ephesians 4:4-6 says: "4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all."
The reason I don't like the whole re-baptism thing, is because it assumes that something was wrong with the first baptism, or that the first one didn't work or do anything. Baptism is supposed to be for the remission of sins, the regeneration of the spirit, the uncovering of the Image of God within each of us, our death to ourselves and resurrection to new life in Jesus, and admittance into the Church. Now, if you believe your first baptism did all those things, except now you live for yourself and not for Jesus, does that mean that you should be baptised again? In my view, no--repentance is a lifelong process, not something that is completed in an instant, so of course we'll still slip up after baptism.
Interestingly, those who were baptized by John the Baptist were baptized again as Christians. John's baptism was as a symbol of repentance for breaches of God's law. John prepared the way for Jews to accept the one coming after him. His baptism did not involve accepting Christ as their savior and being baptized in the name of the Father, son and holy spirit because Jesus had not become "the Christ" (Anointed One) until his own baptism.This was a symbolic death to his own will and a rising to do the will of his Father first in all things.
John 6:37-40:
"All those whom the Father gives me will come to me, and I will never drive away the one who comes to me; 38 for I have come down from heaven to do, not my own will, but the will of him who sent me. 39 This is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose none out of all those whom he has given me, but that I should resurrect them on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who recognizes the Son and exercises faith in him should have everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day.”
I believe that if you are baptized as an infant, and did not make your dedication to God personally, that baptism is invalid. There is no support for infant baptism in the Bible. It is not the act of baptism that saves anyone...it is the personal decision of the individual to follow Christ that is symbolized by full water immersion, not a mere sprinkling on the head of a helpless baby.
One had to accept all that being a Christian meant for themselves and voluntarily make that commitment personally. No one can make it for you, so once you are of age to take that step, you must first learn what is required, and fully understand what is expected of you for the rest of your life. Baptism is a public display, a vow to God to do his will first in your life and to serve him forever. If we mess up, we have the assured forgiveness of our sins because of the blood of Christ, as long as we exhibit true repentance.
@Deeje and @Shiranui117 - I just love how you explain this. Repentance is a life long process, indeed. Never quite heard or read it said like that, but I'd have to agree with you, @Shiranui117
Although, I do believe our faith is more than being worried if we are repentant enough. It is about being joyous in knowing that Jesus loves us. He wants our best life for us. We are repentant with that in mind, not only because we are told to be repentant. Yes?
Although, I do believe our faith is more than being worried if we are repentant enough. It is about being joyous in knowing that Jesus loves us. He wants our best life for us. We are repentant with that in mind, not only because we are told to be repentant. Yes?
SpeaksForTheTrees
Well-Known Member
I was baptized and then later confirmation, made the bond my choice , I was not forced by my parents at 11yrs old to go to confirmation class was something I chose to do. So I guess I did both in order of the OP , confirmation was the spirit .
However in saying that I do not believe baptism & confirmation to be absolute prerequisite in finding God through Jesus .
However in saying that I do not believe baptism & confirmation to be absolute prerequisite in finding God through Jesus .
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Digital_Monk
Member
I'd like to say that the baptism by the holy spirit is the only one that should matter, I think there is something very good about the water baptism in addition to the spiritual baptism.
SpeaksForTheTrees
Well-Known Member
Jesus told us to love God
Jesus loves us only through God , is the love of God through Jesus