Well, there were many teachers, with many differing scrolls, and most them railing at each other, especially along the Arian versus the anti Arian groups. It took the "beast with two horns like a lamb", Constantine, to bring about a church which could be recognized by the Roman empire as the empire's only one and true church. The only "mark" the church carries, is the "mark" of he beast.
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To Christians - The Pope says there's no hell, what do you think?
- Thread starter Deidre
- Start date
Well, there were many teachers, with many differing scrolls, and most them railing at each other, especially along the Arian versus the anti Arian groups. It took the "beast with two horns like a lamb", Constantine, to bring about a church which could be recognized by the Roman empire as the empire's only one and true church. The only "mark" the church carries, is the "mark" of he beast.
Where do you derive that the Catholic Church was to be the one and only Church?
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
I didn't say that in terms of today since the Church split politically several times throughout it's almost 2000 year history. But the mark of the "true church" was what theologians call "apostolic succession", and you can check it out here: Apostolic succession - Wikipedia [notice the churches that this relates to in the 2nd paragraph]
Within Protestantism, notice that it's only the Moravians and the Scandinavian Lutherans that have continued along the line of succession that can be traced back to the apostles.
There is no NT passage where there is precision about three divine Persons, co-equal but distinct, and one divine Nature, core of the dogma of the Trinity which was not observably understood by first century authors nor their audiences. But neither is it new revelation, as it is already revealed when God sent Jesus Christ and when the risen Christ communicated his Spirit.
Unless we are a humanly perfect, we are sinners, as opposed to being perfectly human in which case we stumble in our weakness and must be forgiven 70 times 7.
The sacrament of Confirmation is in the 10th grade.
I agree. There can be no concept of sin apart from knowledge of being in a covenant with God. Post Vatican II Pope Paul VI granted a request from the RCC in the United States to postpone the sacrament of Reconciliation until the 5th grade. It lasted for a few years until the conservatives raised opposition and the pope ended the 'experiment'.
Confirmation in the "day", was around 7 years old for my RC church. That was in the 50s.
If you believe Yeshua, and want to "follow me" and "become perfect", then sell your things and give the proceeds to the poor . (Mt 19:21) As that is not likely to happen for you, then you will never know. And exactly what are 10 year olds repenting of
The Confirmation is given normally given at the age of 7-10 in the Catholic Church and 15-18 in the Church of Scotland/England. In the Catholic Church of the U.S. each diocese determines the age of the recipients. Most now wait until the child is 15-18 years of age. age of catholic confirmation - Bing
The Roman emperor Theodosius decreed the Nicene Trinity Church as the only legitimate Imperial religion. As he was a part of the head of the beast of Revelation 13, whose authority came from the "dragon"/devil (Revelation 13:4), then you can determine for yourself how much that is worth.
Dantedeven
Member
Where is hell in the bible?
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe that is total nonsense.
Muffled
Jesus in me
Re 20:14 And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the lake of fire.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe Apostolic Succession is a myth. There is no link between the Jerusalem church that had the initial authority and the RC church.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
If that were to be true, can you please cite exactly when the apostolic church supposedly stopped and exactly how it supposedly happened?
Growing up Protestant, I was told much the same as you believe, but decades later when I actually did the homework, I realized I was wrong.
Take what you "believe", add $6.00, and you can get yourself a cup of coffee
On 27 February 380, together with Gratian and Valentinian II, Theodosius issued the decree "Cunctos populos", the so-called "Edict of Thessalonica", recorded in the Codex Theodosianus xvi.1.2. This declared the Nicene Trinitarian Christianity to be the only legitimate Imperial religion and the only one entitled to call itself Catholic. Other Christians he described as "foolish madmen".[14] He also ended official state support for the traditional Polytheism religions and customs.[15]
On 26 November 380, two days after he had arrived in Constantinople, Theodosius expelled the non-Nicene bishop, Demophilus of Constantinople, and appointed Meletius patriarch of Antioch, and Gregory of Nazianzus, one of the Cappadocian Fathers from Antioch (today in Turkey), patriarch of Constantinople. Theodosius had just been baptized, by bishop Acholius of Thessalonica, during a severe illness, as was common in the early Christian world.[citation needed] Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Dantedeven
Member
Where did it state that this lake of fire is Hell?
Deidre,
If pope Francis said that there is no Hell, it seems, according to the Bible, he is correct. The term Hell is a corruption of the Greek word Hades. Hades is the same as the Hebrew word Sheol, as can be seen by comparing Psalm 16:10 and Acts 2:27,31. Both of these words actually mean the common grave of mankind. It seems that there was no thought of Sheol or Hades being a place of torment, exceptthe idea of being cut off from life and God. Notice that Job, Who was in great pain because of boils from head to foot, prayed to God to let him go to Sheol, to get out of the pain, Job 14:13. Then verses 14,15, tell about God remembering him and bringing him back to life.
Also, what the Bible says about what death actually is, seems to make it impossible for a person to experience any pain, or anything else, for that matter, Ecclesiastes 9:5,6,10, Psalms 6:5, 115:17, 146:1-4.
If you look up the terms Sheol, Hell, and Hades in a concordance, or a Bible dictionary, you will find that the changes from the Greek word Hades was made by some of the religious leaders, who then put the idea of punishment, or torture, so as to frighten people, to make them listen to their teachings.
The idea of a Hell came from the term Gehenna, which Jesus used several times, to try to shock the people into listening to him.
Gehenna was the valley on the West side of Jerusalem. A Fire was kept burning there, and people threw garbage, and trash, over that Western wall to get rid of it. So this Gehenna became a symbol for everlasting death, distinguished from the common grave of mankind, from which people will be resurrected, John 5:28,29, Matthew 5:21,22. Jesus was trying to show to his listeners that they must listen or they would go to Gehenna, another name for, The Lake of Fire and Sulfur, and not to the place they could be resurrected from, Mark 9:43-48, Matthew 23:29-33, Revelation 20:13-15, Notice that verses 13,14 say that death and Hades will be thrown into The Lake of Fire and Sulfur, showing the Lake of Fire is a symbol of being gone forever, for everything thrown into it, Revelation 21:8.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
I doubt he said that, but even if he did, it is a private opinion, not something he is speaking ex-cathedra or proclaiming as a Dogma for the Church that Catholics must follow. Papal infallibility doesn't state that we have to follow the Pope's every opinion or belief. Papal infallibility simply states that if the Pope settles a matter of dispute on faith and morals from the chair of Saint Peter, the Holy Spirit will guide him from error. Most Pope's never define a Dogma of the Church, hence, most Pope's never excercize Papal infallibility, hence, Pope's can have all kinds of opinions that Catholics have nothing in the Catholic faith that is binding them to follow.
outlawState
Deism is dead
Except that you are giving an unenlightened Jewish-only view point. In the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, Jesus made it quite clear that the wicked will meet their just deserts in Hades or Sheol, and that even in Hades, there is part that may be termed "hell" or a place of torment and another place reserved for the righteous (in the bosom of Abraham). Moreover Sheol is not a place where people will be "cut off from God" because to God "all are alive" (said Jesus). Those in the gehenna part of Sheol will however be cut off from God in that they can no longer access his mercy.
I agree that Death and Hades will eventually be thrown into the lake of fire, a place where everything temporal and of dross is thrown, but that will only result in ongoing punishment of the wicked, which as Jesus said, is a real loss and punishment for them.
So to say that hell "does not exist" is a ridiculous dogmatism unworthly of anyone, let alone a pope, and it doesn't matter whether you are referring to Hades/Sheol or gehenna.
An example of this: Pope Francis now encourages priests to give the OK on a case by case basis for divorced and remarried Catholics to partake of the Eucharist. But why should the priests be allowed to disobey Catholic teachings? The pope should have the courage to first change the teaching if he thinks it is wrong, not encourage the priests to commit mortal sin by disobeying Catholic teaching just because he says it's OK.
That must hold up the line on Sundays lol
At what point as a Catholic do you come to realize that if the entire faith can change at the opinion of one man, what might that mean?
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
That's not how it works.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe there is no such thing as an apostolic church. That is only a RC fable.
Is that Biblical homework or RC myth homework?