To the dead and/or living

[wizanda]

Why do the religious (I find I do this too) but more emphasis on the spirits of the deceased "more than" the spirits of the living?

Because people see the state of a lot of the living, and perceive we could never reach God; so by having someone who is dead, who has already ascended, they believe they've got a conduit between them and God.

 

[Sees]

I think there is a varying degree of how sacred, magical, spiritually alive the world is/people are - present vs. past - between different religious traditions and within the individual ones. Some have a period of time or cycles of them where there were/are messengers or prophets and others don't.

It definitely does help a figure people may want to resemble, admire, honor if his or her faults can't easily be seen or remembered - being sugar-coated or lost over time. Practically universal golden age and degeneration concepts also play a part hand in hand.

For me now is equally the time most special, sacred, magical, spiritually alive, etc. and I honor historical figures but no more than current ones. I think too much of a focus on the past or a "stuck in a book" ideology/mentality can be tough on someone's religious/spiritual life. Having predominantly in the past prophets, saints, teachers, scriptures, etc. don't make it have to be like that but people have to make effort to keep the spirit and reality of it all fully alive and present.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Because people see the state of a lot of the living, and perceive we could never reach God; so by having someone who is dead, who has already ascended, they believe they've got a conduit between them and God.

Eh. I figure its because they cant talk back. But, that makes sense. I would think that if Jesus died for strangers whonare not perfect and let "sinful people" touch him and wash his feet, why do we look down on living who are no different than the people who washed Jesus feet.

I mean, any religious figure. The Buddha recieved alms etc but no one in sutras I read worshiped him but they did his teachings. Today, we give high reverence (worship) to the Buddha. (Which still at a lost of my prior question). Its not as extensive as christianity whose worship is different; but, the goal is similar.

You have people like the Dalai Lama, Roche, Pope Francis, Saku Ikeda, and so forth who are living people. Once they pass, their followers would probably have more pronounced connection.

The spirit is the same, physical death should not make a difference: thats what the Buddha taught and what I believe. Probably why Im asking.

 

[wizanda]

Today, we give high reverence (worship) to the Buddha. (Which still at a lost of my prior question).

As people want idols, they want somebody/thing they can deify, and see as bigger than themselves...Happens in most religions globally; even if many of the authors told people not to do it.

It also shows a limited understanding of the whole; any object isn't real, it is all made from Maya, the only thing that is real is the source of it all.

Like being in a computer the CPU (God) makes the reality we see around us; yet none of it really exists... So people wanting something they can hold onto within it; sadly tho, it defeats the point of where the authors were heading.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

As people want idols, they want somebody/thing they can deify, and see as bigger than themselves...Happens in most religions globally; even if many of the authors told people not to do it.

It also shows a limited understanding of the whole; any object isn't real, it is all made from Maya, the only thing that is real is the source of it all.

Like being in a computer the CPU (God) makes the reality we see around us; yet none of it really exists... So people wanting something they can hold onto within it; sadly tho, it defeats the point of where the authors were heading.

Thats kind of generalizing. I know some people cant live without their object of worship while othere view their object of worship as a focal point but not a replacement for their salvation, enlightenment, or whatever term is used.

Some people I talked with cant function without the physical Eucharist. Some of my friends cant function around our object of devotion, the Gohonzon. Jesus and Buddha never taught that. Rather, with both God or our Buddhanature is always within ourselves. I am sure many people believe "ane" practice that when they bow to the Eucharist or rub a Buddha statue. Ive never been oje to diefy something "to where I cant live without it." If I find myself doing that, I pick up Buddha's teachings and meditate to remind myself we cant take these "things" with us. I practiced Zen so I have a lot of that outlook.

I understand what you mean. Its just like when other people accuse catholics of worshiping statues and say they are basing their salvation on a statue. Its rediculous. Anyway, there is a lot of similiarity in generalization between one faith and another. If I consider myself an exception to this rule, other people are too. I am not special.

 

[wizanda]

Thats kind of generalizing.

It isn't just me generalizing; here is the Maya a place full of delusions, based on desires and ego....Ego wants material existence, contrary to the soul which can live without it.

Yeshua was saying, 'make friends of unrighteous mammon (that in which you have faith)', i.e. here is full of idolators in many different forms, some worship themselves, some worship money, some their partner, their children, etc.... It is in the letting go of all attachment to everything physical, that then allows us to reach our Buddha nature within.

Yeshua also stated, 'no one can serve two masters, you can not serve God and mammon (idolatry)'; so they turned him into an idol, and sent everyone the wrong way.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It isn't just me generalizing; here is the Maya a place full of delusions, based on desires and ego....Ego wants material existence, contrary to the soul which can live without it.

Yeshua was saying, 'make friends of unrighteous mammon (that in which you have faith)', i.e. here is full of idolators in many different forms, some worship themselves, some worship money, some their partner, their children, etc.... It is in the letting go of all attachment to everything physical, that then allows us to reach our Buddha nature within.

Yeshua also stated, 'no one can serve two masters, you can not serve God and mammon (idolatry)'; so they turned him into an idol, and sent everyone the wrong way.

Ego does that but not all people depend on objects of devotions as the cornerstone who Who they are. It helps them a lot but they can live fulfilled without it. Thats nonnattachment (or not idolizing) something because we are not seeing it as a God but a focal point of devotion. Unfortunately, our belief founders say the same generalizations. Nichiren Shonin fussed as Jesus did about people following the wrong people and ideal. He (Shonin) but down all other buddhist schools saying that they worshipnthe Buddha statue and not puting faith in the Dharma.

He says: "Never seek the Gohonzon outside yourself. The Gohonzon exists only within the mortal flesh of us ordinary people who embrace the Lotus Sutra and chant Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo ."

The Law of acceptance of life and death and our function within it is inside ourselves. We know this when we embrace this Law and chant the Law (and ecerpts from it) to understand we Are Nam Myoho Renge Kyo. (Thats the translation)

However, I do see "some" people using the Gohonzon as a needed tool for enlightement. Others see it as a guide but they are enlightened without it. It really depends on the person.

I dont depend on items to mark my enlightment. If I dont and dont believe in that, why thinknI am special in that regards? Other people do it to. Thats why I see it as a generalization. Almost as if everyone thinks thry have the "right Christ" in their pockets.

Nam.

 

[arthra]

Why do the religious (I find I do this too) but more emphasis on the spirits of the deceased "more than" the spirits of the living?

Carlita.. I don't think that's the case in all faiths...It may have been in your case however. There are plenty of activities involving the living in the Baha'i Faith...

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Carlita.. I don't think that's the case in all faiths...It may have been in your case however. There are plenty of activities involving the living in the Baha'i Faith...

Probably. I never seen someone treat someone living the same they would treat Jesus Christ. I don't know any Abrahamic faith that doesn't put equal importance on the living as they do the deceased. For example, if I were male, a Muslim wouldn't treat me the same as they would treat Muhammad. I am thinking more about Jesus since when He was alive a lot of people didn't believe Him. Then after His death, with His disciples converted many pagans to the christian faith and saw miracles of the disciples, then they believed.

Like my friend said to me, "they are people we can relate to"....but she's Catholic an most treat the Pope similar as they would Christ. My friend even compared him to Christ. (Someone jumped on the last Pope and she said "that's like jumping on Jesus)

Some of us have had bad experiences with our parents when they were alive. Then, when they passed, some of us find ways of reconciliation and have a greater respect for their parents. Dependin on faith or morals, they feel more of a spiritual connection with them more than they would have when they did alive.

It isn't just me. It's an observation from the many ways people (off line too) talk about the deceased (physically) but when they talk about the living, they talk as if we are a step under the saints, Savior, God, and so forth.

I have yet to meet anyone who said any person on earth living is equal to Christ.

 

[arthra]

Carlita,

It's what you do with the teachings that counts... It's not just meeting someone or being in the presence of Someone.. It's the Word that flows through Them and what you do with it that counts!

The unusual intellects, for instance, of Plato, Aristotle, Pliny and Socrates, have not influenced men so greatly that they have been anxious to sacrifice their lives for their teachings; whilst some of those simple men so moved humanity that thousands of men have become willing martyrs to uphold their words; for these words were inspired by the Divine Spirit of God! The prophets of Judah and Israel, Elijah, Jeremiah, Isaiah and Ezekiel, were humble men, as were also the apostles of Jesus Christ.

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 165