to the Fundamentalists, discerning faith vs denial

[LeftyLen]

1974 An event took place in sixth grade, at a Lutheran school in Inglewood, an event almost resulting in an agonizing outcome. I waved my arm to block a softball thrown from the elementary school baseball diamond, a softball rapidly flying towards me. One boy, Val seeing the direction of the softball yelled, ’Look out” as the ball narrowly missed my ‘neither-regions,’ striking instead the back of my hand. If the ball had not been deflected by my hand my sheltered regions would have been struck resulting in considerable pain. For several days fellow students offered caustic jokes at my expense about the flight of the ball; but I figured better mean jokes and a big bruise on my hand than the balls uninterrupted trajectory.

1979 age 16, I observed an odd manifestation by several students who attended the church school I was compelled to attend. The older teen students, juniors and seniors were on a museum field trip at a natural history museum chaperoned by a members of the faculty. Many of the students had their hands outstretched vigorously attempting to block a panoramic view of fossils on display. The students blocking the views with frantic arm waving engaged did so to visually block the plethora of Pleistocene fossils on display at the La Bra Tar Pits. The formal position of the church school was such fossils did not exist, so like myself years before protecting one part of my anatomy from harm they were protecting another part of their anatomy from substantial pain, the pain of beholding fossils. The objective fact of the fossils uncompromised existence was in complete opposition to the narrative of the church school, thus through strenuous gesturing the fossils were, as best as possible relegated out of existence. I pointed and gestured at the fossils, declaring loudly " ain/t that interesting?"



The teens who rejected the reality in front of them were not chaperoned by the attending school faculty, their true chaperon an entrenched dogma. Such actions not acts of faith but acts of DENIAL. I was immediately expelled for my irreverence, ending my flirtation with fundamentalism

 

[Sir Joseph]

1974 An event took place in sixth grade, at a Lutheran school in Inglewood, an event almost resulting in an agonizing outcome. I waved my arm to block a softball thrown from the elementary school baseball diamond, a softball rapidly flying towards me. One boy, Val seeing the direction of the softball yelled, ’Look out” as the ball narrowly missed my ‘neither-regions,’ striking instead the back of my hand. If the ball had not been deflected by my hand my sheltered regions would have been struck resulting in considerable pain. For several days fellow students offered caustic jokes at my expense about the flight of the ball; but I figured better mean jokes and a big bruise on my hand than the balls uninterrupted trajectory.

1979 age 16, I observed an odd manifestation by several students who attended the church school I was compelled to attend. The older teen students, juniors and seniors were on a museum field trip at a natural history museum chaperoned by a members of the faculty. Many of the students had their hands outstretched vigorously attempting to block a panoramic view of fossils on display. The students blocking the views with frantic arm waving engaged did so to visually block the plethora of Pleistocene fossils on display at the La Bra Tar Pits. The formal position of the church school was such fossils did not exist, so like myself years before protecting one part of my anatomy from harm they were protecting another part of their anatomy from substantial pain, the pain of beholding fossils. The objective fact of the fossils uncompromised existence was in complete opposition to the narrative of the church school, thus through strenuous gesturing the fossils were, as best as possible relegated out of existence. I pointed and gestured at the fossils, declaring loudly " ain/t that interesting?"



The teens who rejected the reality in front of them were not chaperoned by the attending school faculty, their true chaperon an entrenched dogma. Such actions not acts of faith but acts of DENIAL. I was immediately expelled for my irreverence, ending my flirtation with fundamentalism

I was surprised this year when my own girlfriend, well grounded in both secular education and proper Biblical theology, denied the existance of dinosaurs. I asked her how she explained the existence of thousands of such fossils visible today in museums, digs, and media publications. She had no response; just a blank stare.

I don't know where anyone would get such an idea, but it's not Biblical at all. If any church posits such a theory, I'd agree that it's denying reality in order to uphold some fundamental or belief system. In this case, there's confusion going on between the alleged age of dinosaurs versus their actual existence, with the former being a legitimate debate and the latter not.

Your experience LeftyLen shows that we shouldn't judge the truth of any religion on the teachings of one person, church, or organization, or upon the actions of it's followers, but upon the foundational scriptures of that faith.

Saying that, I'll concede that the definition of fundamentalist does include a Bible believing Christian like me. The more I study and learn about the Bible, history, science, and culture, the more I realize its Divinely inspired truth. But, I affirm that truth with evidence that reflects reality, not by dismissing or rejecting it.

 

[LeftyLen]

I was surprised this year when my own girlfriend, well grounded in both secular education and proper Biblical theology, denied the existance of dinosaurs. I asked her how she explained the existence of thousands of such fossils visible today in museums, digs, and media publications. She had no response; just a blank stare.

I don't know where anyone would get such an idea, but it's not Biblical at all. If any church posits such a theory, I'd agree that it's denying reality in order to uphold some fundamental or belief system. In this case, there's confusion going on between the alleged age of dinosaurs versus their actual existence, with the former being a legitimate debate and the latter not.

Your experience LeftyLen shows that we shouldn't judge the truth of any religion on the teachings of one person, church, or organization, or upon the actions of it's followers, but upon the foundational scriptures of that faith.

Saying that, I'll concede that the definition of fundamentalist does include a Bible believing Christian like me. The more I study and learn about the Bible, history, science, and culture, the more I realize its Divinely inspired truth. But, I affirm that truth with evidence that reflects reality, not by dismissing or rejecting it.

blank stares were very common as a teen. Through not a dictionary definition, i have heard it said "A fundamentalist is an angry evangelical "

 

[Absolutely Frank]

Fundamentalist Christianity isn't about faith it's about certainty. So when confronted with data that challenges that certainty like fossils the cognitive dissonance runs deep into a state of denial that rejects what is before their own eyes, They have been known to physically attack objects that cause discomfort and even feel physical revulsion in the presence of such objects. The contradictory data constitutes an existential threat to them. Julia Kristeva's concept of the abject helps explain this reaction.

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[InChrist]

I think the meaning of the word “fundamental or fundamentalist “ has been tweaked a bit by pop culture and used as an inaccurate label. The word simply means…

…serving as, or being an essential part of, a foundation or basis; basic; underlying:
fundamental principles;
the fundamental structure.

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!

www.dictionary.com

So a fundamentalist Christian is one who simply accepts the basic foundational or fundamental truths of the Bible. Being a fundamentalist Christian does not indicate that reality or data is rejected or denied.

 

[Absolutely Frank]

I think the meaning of the word “fundamental or fundamentalist “ has been tweaked a bit by pop culture and used as an inaccurate label. The word simply means…

…serving as, or being an essential part of, a foundation or basis; basic; underlying:
fundamental principles;
the fundamental structure.

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!

www.dictionary.com

So a fundamentalist Christian is one who simply accepts the basic foundational or fundamental truths of the Bible. Being a fundamentalist Christian does not indicate that reality or data is rejected or denied.

There is more to the definition and you know it. Another is: Fundamentalism is a tendency to apply strict literal interpretation to scriptures, dogmas, or ideologies, and to emphasize purity and distinction from other groups.

That implies the exclusion of contradictory data. And believing that the Bible is axiomatic is a heresy verging on pure idolatry.

 

[InChrist]

There is more to the definition and you know it. Another is: Fundamentalism is a tendency to apply strict literal interpretation to scriptures, dogmas, or ideologies, and to emphasize purity and distinction from other groups.

That implies the exclusion of contradictory data. And believing that the Bible is axiomatic is a heresy verging on pure idolatry.

Maybe I should know the definition you posted, but I didn’t. I think that is a more recent definition than I was aware of. I have always that fundamental simply meant foundational. So from my perspective a fundamentalist Christian was one who believed the foundational truths of the biblical scriptures. Yet, it seems like over the last twenty years or so the word fundamentalist has been used more as a derogatory term.

 

[Absolutely Frank]

Maybe I should know the definition you posted, but I didn’t. I think that is a more recent definition than I was aware of. I have always that fundamental simply meant foundational. So from my perspective a fundamentalist Christian was one who believed the foundational truths of the biblical scriptures. Yet, it seems like over the last twenty years or so the word fundamentalist has been used more as a derogatory term.

I appreciate what you are saying but the term doesn't just apply to Christians, it applies all sorts of groups and ideologies including secularism. Though secularists won't admit that they can be fundamentalists.

 

[InChrist]

I appreciate what you are saying but the term doesn't just apply to Christians, it applies all sorts of groups and ideologies including secularism. Though secularists won't admit that they can be fundamentalists.

I do understand that the term can be applied to other groups and ideologies. The subject here on this thread appeared to be Christian “fundamentalists”, though.
Anyway, have a good night. I’m going offline now.

 

[LeftyLen]

Fundamentalist Christianity isn't about faith it's about certainty. So when confronted with data that challenges that certainty like fossils the cognitive dissonance runs deep into a state of denial that rejects what is before their own eyes, They have been known to physically attack objects that cause discomfort and even feel physical revulsion in the presence of such objects. The contradictory data constitutes an existential threat to them. Julia Kristeva's concept of the abject helps explain this reaction.

Powers of Horror - Wikipedia

i have seen up close adults in a hustle youth out of a museum with fossils to protect presuppositional beliefs. That is cognitive dissonance not faith as faith has no fear of free inquiry. Also, i will look up Julia Kristeva.